UK - Prince Andrew accused of underage sexual relationship, 1999 - 2002

[JDG]

Re PA
"Ignorance of the law, excuses no one".

An old legal principle.

oh I know that ignorance is not an excuse in law.

In Britain she was of legal age.

just saying that PA may not have thought his friend would send a trafficked young woman to him.

The Brits seem to have a totally different take on VG. She was of age, although he 2as nearly 40, he did Not commit a crime.

 

[Dotta]

You said he sponsored her. He didnt ...He was a financier they lend money..she made her feelings plain what she thought about him once she found out...good on her. I have never really understood why they never seem to have no money.

Oh, OK, I didnt know she turned against JE.
I might have sounded harsh, but this case is simply revolting for me.
Maybe b/c I work with teens and know how vulnerable they are.
Anybody hurting children or teens are despicable for me.

 

[JDG]

Oh, OK, I didnt know she turned against JE.
I might have sounded harsh, but this case is simply revolting for me.
Maybe b/c I work with teens and know how vulnerable they are.
Anybody hurting children or teens are despicable for me.

Loaning money to the York’s would have nothing to do with this case, no matter how people ‘feel’ about it.

Evidence that is honestly obtained is the only thing accepted in a criminal trial.

 

[Dotta]

Loaning money to the York’s would have nothing to do with this case, no matter how people ‘feel’ about it.

Evidence that is honestly obtained is the only thing accepted in a criminal trial.

Well, emotions and reason usually exclude each other.

 

[JDG]

Well, emotions and reason usually exclude each other.

Not in law and not in people who ‘think it through’ beforehand.

most people would find PA a bit of hard work but would also be smitten to meet royalty.

it should not, however, cloud ones judgement.

 

[Dotta]

Not in law and not in people who ‘think it through’ beforehand.

most people would find PA a bit of hard work but would also be smitten to meet royalty.

it should not, however, cloud ones judgement.

Thank goodness Im not a lawyer working on this case.

Im just an ordinary poster on WS, enjoying discussion here - sometimes losing my temper

 

[investikater]

It doesn't really matter, VRG's lawyer has declared its authenticity.

It does matter.
Especially considering that that case was settled under seal.
How are we supposed to know if that is a genuine letter to VRG?

 

[investikater]

Rock stars are a great example of the normalization of mature adult male sex with underage girls.
[...]
It's an extremely unequal power dynamic b/t these young girls and the mature, adult males, whether it be a 17 year old nobody girl and a 40ish year old spoiled prince, or C and JE or a baby groupie and a rock star in his 20s or 30s.

Yes IN MY OPINION it is disgusting.

However 17 isn't underage in the jurisdiction the alleged sexual activity took place.

It is still disgusting IN MY OPINION that a 40 year old man would allegedly legally have sex with a 17 year old girl. Especially when he is a father to teenage girls!

Perhaps it should become illegal.
Perhaps legally statutory consent should be based on age difference.

But it isn't.

 

[investikater]

that still isnt illegal weirdly enough. Its not something I would ever do but hell Clinton and Trump spent a lot of time with Epstein too

Ditto to my last point to this.

UKGirl is correct it is not illegal.

Immoral perhaps. Unethical perhaps.

IN MY OPINION it is immoral and unethical.

Perhaps it should be illegal for an adult not to try to do something when they see a minor in a questionable possibly sexualised situation.

Perhaps it should even be illegal for adults to associate with convicted underage sex offenders.

But it isn't.

 

[investikater]

Respectfully Snipped By Me:

[...]Every one of those girls was brainwashed IMO because they were vulnerable and easily influenced. [...]

Allison Mack was also brainwashed.
She was still charged and is currently serving a prison sentence she accepted in a plea deal.

GUILTY - NXIVM - Inside a Secretive Group Where Women are Branded

 

[UK Girl]

Yes IN MY OPINION it is disgusting.

However 17 isn't underage in the jurisdiction the alleged sexual activity took place.

It is still disgusting IN MY OPINION that a 40 year old man would allegedly legally have sex with a 17 year old girl. Especially when he is a father to teenage girls!

Perhaps it should become illegal.
Perhaps legally statutory consent should be based on age difference.

But it isn't.

I have a 41 year old cousin who has a 19 year old girlfriend. She used to date his brother first but he died of cancer and the pair of them grew close whilst grieving. I also worked with someone who lived with and married someone thirty years older. She was around 18 or so and he was nearly 50 and its not what I would have wanted but she was seriously besotted with him. Sometimes age difference seriously doesnt matter.

 

[investikater]

I have a 41 year old cousin who has a 19 year old girlfriend. She used to date his brother first but he died of cancer and the pair of them grew close whilst grieving. I also worked with someone who lived with and married someone thirty years older. She was around 18 or so and he was nearly 50 and its not what I would have wanted but she was seriously besotted with him. Sometimes age difference seriously doesnt matter.

It's true that genuine love can develop in relationships with large age gaps.

And if we did make age gaps illegal there would be a lot of outcry about government interference and overreach into people's private lives.

But I have to say your examples are not exactly comparable.
The people you described formed long term relationships, and at least one grew slowly over time.

Where as if a sexual relationship did take place between AMW and VRG it was casual. Possibly so casual that AMW genuinely doesn't even remember her.

Not illegal.
Probably not my right to judge someone else's legal personal life and legal sexual ethics and legal sexual morality.
Also not really my business.
But VRG has made it all of our business.

 

[CP244]

Respectfully Snipped By Me:



Allison Mack was also brainwashed.
She was still charged and is currently serving a prison sentence she accepted in a plea deal.

GUILTY - NXIVM - Inside a Secretive Group Where Women are Branded

How old was Alison Mack? Brainwashing is not the same as grooming children and VG was a child when she was groomed, she was barely more than a child when she recruited others.

 

[JDG]

How old was Alison Mack? Brainwashing is not the same as grooming children and VG was a child when she was groomed, she was barely more than a child when she recruited others.

^^^^just curious, what age does ‘childhood’ go to?? Is that a state law? Country set law?

 

[CP244]

^^^^just curious, what age does ‘childhood’ go to?? Is that a state law? Country set law?

I believe in the US it is state set laws, for the age of consent, but I may be wrong. Legally, in most countries the age of adulthood is 18.

 

[tayaway]

NPR 20011: Neurologically, childhood ends at roughly 25, when the human brain is fully matured. Laws do not reflect the science.

Uni Rochester Med: (bbm)

It doesn’t matter how smart teens are or how well they scored on the SAT or ACT. Good judgment isn’t something they can excel in, at least not yet.

The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so.

In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part.

In teens' brains, the connections between the emotional part of the brain and the decision-making center are still developing—and not always at the same rate. That’s why when teens have overwhelming emotional input, they can’t explain later what they were thinking. They weren’t thinking as much as they were feeling.

 

[JDG]

I believe in the US it is state set laws, for the age of consent, but I may be wrong. Legally, in most countries the age of adulthood is 18.

Thank you. I'm in Ontario and it gets confusing at times. Age of majority is 18 but you cannot buy liquor til 19.

You can get a drivers license and consent to sex at 16. Consent to sex used to be 14 til IIRC, 2008.

I believe in GB the age of consent is 16 but anyone from there can correct me. Age of majority could be different.

 

[CP244]

Thank you. I'm in Ontario and it gets confusing at times. Age of majority is 18 but you cannot buy liquor til 19.

You can get a drivers license and consent to sex at 16. Consent to sex used to be 14 til IIRC, 2008.

I believe in GB the age of consent is 16 but anyone from there can correct me. Age of majority could be different.

I think that that is correct and quite probably the reason that they flew her to the UK.

 

[investikater]

How old was Alison Mack? Brainwashing is not the same as grooming children and VG was a child when she was groomed, she was barely more than a child when she recruited others.

Allison Mack was 24 when she joined.

Her victims were all legal adults, no minors.
Fact check: Allison Mack wasn't charged with sex crimes against minors

VRG was 19 when she left.

 

[investikater]

^^^^just curious, what age does ‘childhood’ go to?? Is that a state law? Country set law?

Exactly; child is not a legal term.

Referring to teenagers and minors as children is a United States colloquialism.

The differing ages of consent in different jurisdictions is a problem.