GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #15

[YidArmyRach]

As long as they have her email and password, they can get in and post.

If she kept herself logged into Facebook or had the "remember password" box ticked, they would only need to have access to her laptop, phone or tablet.

 

[LookingForClues]

I've always thought they planned to kidnap BW. Just the purchase of stun guns makes me believe that. Then add the texts and the videos, which most people would not consider to be "normal sexual banter between partners" and "normal viewing habits." I don't think it's a coincidence that they wanted to stop by the house while his mom was gone but while BW would be home alone. I think those opportunities are few and far between, since AG is ill and usually home, so they had to wait for just the right time.

I've said before that I believe they planned to kidnap her, take her back to their apartment, keep her for awhile for some very dark fantasies, then kill her. Nothing has changed my mind about that. I think they thought it would be easy peasy to kidnap her from the house: take her by surprise (simply by being in the house when she thought she was alone), stun her so she'd be unconscious, carry her outside (not in a suitcase!) and put her in the boot of the car. They didn't expect her to fight back (why they would think that, I have no idea, other than they overestimated the effectiveness of the stun gun). When they killed her too early to carry out the rest of their plan, their "fun" was gone and they panicked and realized they had to change their plan. I don't think they were prepared to change their plan. They had no backup. So things fell apart from there. Instead of getting rid of her body right away, they brought her back to the house (as in the original plan). They tried to dismember her with knives (as in the original plan), and discovered that wasn't going to work, so they had to buy a saw. Since they hadn't planned for her to die right away, they didn't have everything they needed to hide the crime (cleaning products, bags, cling wrap, etc.), so that meant they had to go shopping right away. All of these things they weren't prepared for dragged out the time they needed to hide their crime and her body, so everything took longer than they expected.

The police wanted to interview them, the police wanted to come to their house. Imagine the panic! What to do! What to do! So they get back in touch with SH's mom, leave their car at her house so police won't know they're home, do everything possible to avoid getting caught and put off the police coming to their home. But time caught up with them, they still had BW's body in their house and the police were insistent that they wanted to visit the next morning. NM calls friends, weaves his tall tale, and voila, body is gone and they figure the police will never figure out where the body is until they can move it within the next few days. But they get arrested and BW's body and the evidence is stashed in an acquaintance's shed. And we know the rest from there.

I think they spent weeks if not months to set up BW's disappearance to look like she ran away: created family friction, the post on FB, etc. This is one part of their plan that they continued after they killed her (telling AG and DG they heard her leave in a huff, posting on FB that she was missing and please keep an eye out for her, etc.). If they'd had the time they needed to dispose of her (perhaps in water), I think they would have done that. In fact, I don't think they expected to be arrested the day they let the police come to the house. I believe they truly thought they'd be collecting everything from the shed and moving it so no one would ever find her.

I think their motive was a combination of sexual desires and extreme jealousy/hatred. I think they wanted to do some horrible things to her, so while I hate to say it, I think it's better that they messed up their plan and she died earlier than later.

This entire situation is just so horrific and terribly sad. I hope that BW's family and loved ones find some kind of peace and justice when the trial is over. :rose: :rose:

 

[YidArmyRach]

We should maybe keep in mind that Nathan had trained as an Army Reserve and IMO to be a reserve or regular serviceman, you have to be a certain kind of person. I'm not saying the forces are full of psychopaths/sociopaths etc BUT you are trained with the though in mind to kill or be killed. I know many of you are more horrified at the dismemberment than anything else and OF COURSE if it were a member of MY family I'd be utterly disturbed BUT the armed forces are trained to distance themselves from what they HAVE to do ...

I'm not sure how much training he would have had in that respect, considering he was only a reservist.

My husband served 22 years and served in Iraq and Afghanistan, so I would agree that he would have had that mindset. My son is also in the forces, but only in his first year and as far as I am aware (from the info given regarding his training and what he has told me), he has spent his time so far on more practical training - fire fighting, first aid, repairing leaks, cleaning rifles and so on.

I know that a lot of forces personnel see the reservists as a bit of a joke - a bit like how some people view PCSOs, as very much inferior to the real role, and only a lightweight version, without most of the training or experience. I know reservists who haven't been anywhere near conflict, danger or actual war despite serving for years and years. Hope that doesn't offend anyone!

 

[tallmansix]

But an accidental suffocation when trying to stop someone shouting and screaming is a lot nicer than "I just punched her once in the face to knock her out and then did that strangling thing to really make sure she was unconscious" which is NM's story. And a lot more believable for a manslaughter charge in my opinion.

If he accidentally killed her (without having any plan to cause her harm) then why wouldn't he just call an ambulance? To take away a body, store it, dismember it and then dump it seems to me to be a very extreme way of dealing with an accident.

Its all one big pack of lies. I think they are covering up something much worse than the horror they are willing to let people believe.

BIB is the bit that convinces me this was murder over manslaughter. First aid might have even helped at this point, I'm sure he knew some from the TA and he chose not to use it. Makes me sad to think about that, there was a window in which Becky may have been revived but it was ignored by 2 people.

 

[tallmansix]

See I don't get how strangling is deemed a "better" option than suffocating.

I can imagine somebody panicking and wanting to stop somebody screaming and shouting , putting their hand over their mouth and accidentally suffocating them but I can't imagine somebody accidentally putting their hands round somebody's neck and accidentally strangling them.

ETA ahh maybe with strangling he could use his excuse about that playground strangling game that he couldn't use with suffocation.

Yes, I thought that too, however a successful strangle can have somebody unconcious in less than 30 seconds, I think suffocation is several minutes. I wonder if it was actually both. MH strangling while SH suffocated. Fits the evidence AND his version.

 

[YidArmyRach]

Yes, I thought that too, however a successful strangle can have somebody unconcious in less than 30 seconds, I think suffocation is several minutes. I wonder if it was actually both. MH strangling while SH suffocated. Fits the evidence AND his version.

That's what I think. SH was trying to make Becky be quiet, whilst MN was trying to overpower her, or doing that "strangling thing" he referred to, to render her unconscious.

 

[jessie]

I wouldn't presume to speak for everyone here on this thread but going off the posts so far can you imagine "us" lot on the jury there?

Questions for the judge afterwards! Probably pages of them.
Eye brow raising during NM/SH testimony on the judges bench. Most likely
Eyes on stalks - for sure !
Delayed verdict?

Then ultimately traumatised by the horrific details.....

Well, speaking for myself I have 'carried out independent research' and my search history is quite scary now (google is my friend) - and I have also carried out experiments (suitcases)..

This afternoon I have also been seeing how easy/difficult it is to cover a tiled bathroom wall with clingfilm !!!! :facepalm:

But I'm not on the jury.

 

[Hexenb]

The pull up bar was already set into the door frame. We used to have one when I was growing up ( my father and brothers used it for exercises ) and they are extremely sturdy.
I dont think the shower bar would be that strong either, although I could be wrong on that, depending on the type of shower unit.

Edited, sorry I have just changed my word there. I meant to say the shower bar on the unit, not the actual shower pole that holds the curtain. I don't think they could have used the pole, but the bar might have been a possibility if it was a very sturdy unit.

Wondering if Nathan had a engine hoist hanging around in the rubble

 

[cottonweaver]

I've always thought they planned to kidnap BW. Just the purchase of stun guns makes me believe that. Then add the texts and the videos, which most people would not consider to be "normal sexual banter between partners" and "normal viewing habits." I don't think it's a coincidence that they wanted to stop by the house while his mom was gone but while BW would be home alone. I think those opportunities are few and far between, since AG is ill and usually home, so they had to wait for just the right time.

I've said before that I believe they planned to kidnap her, take her back to their apartment, keep her for awhile for some very dark fantasies, then kill her. Nothing has changed my mind about that. I think they thought it would be easy peasy to kidnap her from the house: take her by surprise (simply by being in the house when she thought she was alone), stun her so she'd be unconscious, carry her outside (not in a suitcase!) and put her in the boot of the car. They didn't expect her to fight back (why they would think that, I have no idea, other than they overestimated the effectiveness of the stun gun). When they killed her too early to carry out the rest of their plan, their "fun" was gone and they panicked and realized they had to change their plan. I don't think they were prepared to change their plan. They had no backup. So things fell apart from there. Instead of getting rid of her body right away, they brought her back to the house (as in the original plan). They tried to dismember her with knives (as in the original plan), and discovered that wasn't going to work, so they had to buy a saw. Since they hadn't planned for her to die right away, they didn't have everything they needed to hide the crime (cleaning products, bags, cling wrap, etc.), so that meant they had to go shopping right away. All of these things they weren't prepared for dragged out the time they needed to hide their crime and her body, so everything took longer than they expected.

The police wanted to interview them, the police wanted to come to their house. Imagine the panic! What to do! What to do! So they get back in touch with SH's mom, leave their car at her house so police won't know they're home, do everything possible to avoid getting caught and put off the police coming to their home. But time caught up with them, they still had BW's body in their house and the police were insistent that they wanted to visit the next morning. NM calls friends, weaves his tall tale, and voila, body is gone and they figure the police will never figure out where the body is until they can move it within the next few days. But they get arrested and BW's body and the evidence is stashed in an acquaintance's shed. And we know the rest from there.

I think they spent weeks if not months to set up BW's disappearance to look like she ran away: created family friction, the post on FB, etc. This is one part of their plan that they continued after they killed her (telling AG and DG they heard her leave in a huff, posting on FB that she was missing and please keep an eye out for her, etc.). If they'd had the time they needed to dispose of her (perhaps in water), I think they would have done that. In fact, I don't think they expected to be arrested the day they let the police come to the house. I believe they truly thought they'd be collecting everything from the shed and moving it so no one would ever find her.

I think their motive was a combination of sexual desires and extreme jealousy/hatred. I think they wanted to do some horrible things to her, so while I hate to say it, I think it's better that they messed up their plan and she died earlier than later.

This entire situation is just so horrific and terribly sad. I hope that BW's family and loved ones find some kind of peace and justice when the trial is over. :rose: :rose:

:goodpost:

How long and where do you think they could have kept her?

 

[cottonweaver]

Well, speaking for myself I have 'carried out independent research' and my search history is quite scary now (google is my friend) - and I have also carried out experiments (suitcases)..

This afternoon I have also been seeing how easy/difficult it is to cover a tiled bathroom wall with clingfilm !!!! :facepalm:

But I'm not on the jury.

Well well,well !
This is where the rest of the jury now grass you up to the Foreman/woman and you get removed bu the Judge followed by contempt of court - so you actually might end up worse off than Shauna Hoare!!!

 

[tallmansix]

Well, speaking for myself I have 'carried out independent research' and my search history is quite scary now (google is my friend) - and I have also carried out experiments (suitcases)..

This afternoon I have also been seeing how easy/difficult it is to cover a tiled bathroom wall with clingfilm !!!! :facepalm:

But I'm not on the jury.

I hope your research hasn't involved a circular saw in a bathroom. On that topic, would it really be that messy and require a full cover up? I've have a circular saw, they are designed to stop all the wood cuttings flying everywhere, usually behind the saw and downward. I think as long as it was held in the normal position, little mess would go above the bath. After that, bleach would remove all biological evidence.

 

[YidArmyRach]

I hope your research hasn't involved a circular saw in a bathroom. On that topic, would it really be that messy and require a full cover up? I've have a circular saw, they are designed to stop all the wood cuttings flying everywhere, usually behind the saw and downward. I think as long as it was held in the normal position, little mess would go above the bath. After that, bleach would remove all biological evidence.

When my son goes out for his sneaky cigarette tonight (under the guise of a dog walk, he thinks I don't know), I'm going to time him. If he is back within 20 minutes, SH's story is rubbish!

 

[innocenteyes]

Hi everyone, I have newly registered with this forum but I am certainly not new to it. I have been following this case from the beginning and it has really got to me. I think maybe Becky reminds me if a sixteen year old me and because of the weirdness of this case. I have been reading your theories and coming up with my own but I feel that we are all going around in circles. I think most people on here are of the opinion that both NM and SH are guilty. The question is WHY? We have been given half truths so. What is NM hiding? Is he covering for someone other than SH?

 

[Wallace]

Hi everyone, I have newly registered with this forum but I am certainly not new to it. I have been following this case from the beginning and it has really got to me. I think maybe Becky reminds me if a sixteen year old me and because of the weirdness of this case. I have been reading your theories and coming up with my own but I feel that we are all going around in circles. I think most people on here are of the opinion that both NM and SH are guilty. The question is WHY? We have been given half truths so. What is NM hiding? Is he covering for someone other than SH?

Short answer probably.

 

[LookingForClues]

:goodpost:

How long and where do you think they could have kept her?

Thanks. Hmmm...I think they would have kept her for as long as they felt comfortable that they were getting away with it, and as long as their dark fantasies were keeping them satisfied. Look at some of the recent cases where women were held for years, even decades. I think the longer some captors get away with it, the more ways they think of to keep it going. KWIM?

I think they planned to use their attic, just like in their texts and the movies/videos they watched. Would they have kept her their long term? I don't know. Did they plan to move her to another location, or even have another location where they COULD move her? I don't know. I suspect that part of the thrill for them would have been KNOWING she was alive and that they were holding her captive, while everyone worried and looked for her. They both strike me as very smug people, they think they are smarter than everyone else, and this would give them great pleasure. They would be in control...of BW, of AG and DG, of everyone around them, from family and friends to law enforcement. To be honest, I think that even though they've been caught (and hopefully put away for a very long time), the secret they share of what they really planned and how they really did the various things that have us all scratching our heads, is giving them great pleasure AND is bonding them to each other even more than we can imagine.

 

[Insp.Dots]

http://theukdatabase.com/2015/11/10/maurice-hoare-roscommon/

Evening all, I'm playing catch up again but just seen this with regard to SH's Uncle. Didn't she hint at 'something in her past' during her Police interview? Just wandering if this may have an affect at Sentencing etc.

 

[innocenteyes]

Sorry what do you mean?

 

[jessie]

http://theukdatabase.com/2015/11/10/maurice-hoare-roscommon/

Evening all, I'm playing catch up again but just seen this with regard to SH's Uncle. Didn't she hint at 'something in her past' during her Police interview? Just wandering if this may have an affect at Sentencing etc.

I don't see how it could really. It's also in Ireland isn't it?

I doubt it would have made the news if it wasn't for Becky's trial imo

eta Sorry that didn't come out right. I'm not in any way denigrating what happened there, just that I doubt it could affect Becky's trial, apart from scurrilous journalism.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I don't see how it could really. It's also in Ireland isn't it?

I doubt it would have made the news if it wasn't for Becky's trial imo

eta Sorry that didn't come out right. I'm not in any way denigrating what happened there, just that I doubt it could affect Becky's trial, apart from scurrilous journalism.

Yes I knew what you meant, you are probably right. It made me prick my ears up as it was the Irish side of the family who did an article on SH, trying to defend her. Some will no doubt say it runs in the family. I just wandered If that was what she was referring to in the Police interview. SOOOOooo many parts missing from our 'knowledge' I'm scraping around for any more clues!!! :scared:

 

[epiphany]

Hi everyone, I have newly registered with this forum but I am certainly not new to it. I have been following this case from the beginning and it has really got to me. I think maybe Becky reminds me if a sixteen year old me and because of the weirdness of this case. I have been reading your theories and coming up with my own but I feel that we are all going around in circles. I think most people on here are of the opinion that both NM and SH are guilty. The question is WHY? We have been given half truths so. What is NM hiding? Is he covering for someone other than SH?

Welcome, Innocent!

RBBM

There is no evidence, no indications, that might even suggest that anyone else, either teen or adult, male or female, was involved in the kidnap attempt and murder of Becky Watts other than NM and his partner, SH.