GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #4

[Edinlass]

I've of the mind she wasn't that shy, certainly not as much as being made out and I think too much focus is being put on that. Most teenagers are awkward and shy in front of adults, paying for stuff in shops, meeting new people etc It's part of growing up. Just my opinion and the way I see it but not really buying it at all.

I agree, but as some1 pointed out to me this shouldn't matter as no1 deserves this but I also don't quite understand why so much emphasis was put on the shy, anxious persona! Maybe just a parents outlook of their precious daughter who has been snatched in the most shocking of circumstances!

The whole case baffles me no end!

 

[ChuckieD]

I suspect it is something that could send them away, otherwise they would not have risked this.
Drugs or stolen property perhaps.

I really can't see it, she was a streetwise 16 year old from a Bristol council estate, I really cannot running to the police or anybody else over something like that. Can't see it happening over anything really bar something like rape or murder. Drugs, handling stolen goods, robbery, car crime etc are things that happened everyday where she lived. I would also think that if a 16 year old girl can stumble across it the Police can quite easily too.

 

[Kaly99]

Does anyone have any idea on what kind of other evidence the police would need to charge the '4' OTHER than finding the body on their property?

That's a good question. I'd guess that if they admitted to knowingly storing the bags/boxes and not calling the police, that might in itself be enough to charge them as there would only be their word for it that they didn't realize what they were storing.

I was just having a look at the definition of "Handling stolen goods", and to be found guilty of that you have to know or believe that the goods are stolen - I wonder if this might work in the same kind of way, in that the four are charged with assisting an offender "knowing or believing" him to be guilty of an offence. The Wiki page for handling stolen goods says: "The situation is further complicated by the concept of recklessness or wilful blindness to the circumstances; either will be treated as a belief that the goods are stolen. Thus, suspicion will be converted into belief when the facts are so obvious that belief may safely be imputed."

So if the four claim they didn't know what was in the bags but the circumstances - that NM's stepsister was missing, that he'd asked them to store mysterious bags a few days after she disappeared - are such that it was pretty obvious there was something dodgy going on, perhaps that itself might count as belief that he was guilty of something. Ultimately I guess it'll come down to whether a jury believe them if they say they didn't know what they were storing.

 

[ChuckieD]

I agree, but as some1 pointed out to me this shouldn't matter as no1 deserves this but I also don't quite understand why so much emphasis was put on the shy, anxious persona! Maybe just a parents outlook of their precious daughter who has been snatched in the most shocking of circumstances!

The whole case baffles me no end!

It makes no odds to me if she was loud or shy but some people are putting so much emphasis on her being a shrinking violet it borders on cringeworthy and I personally think it's a bit unfair to this young woman's character, however well intended it may be. I'm probably on my own in that thought but that's just the way I look at it.

I also think it's a way of pushing the idea that Becky was a 16 year old child, not a 16 year old girl entering womanhood. I see her as the latter.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I agree, but as some1 pointed out to me this shouldn't matter as no1 deserves this but I also don't quite understand why so much emphasis was put on the shy, anxious persona! Maybe just a parents outlook of their precious daughter who has been snatched in the most shocking of circumstances!

The whole case baffles me no end!

The Family were saying BW was shy when they were making appeals. They couldn't see that she would just randomly go off, and wanted her disappearance to be taken as urgent and serious as there are so many youngsters that run off in a huff or whatever and come back perfectly safe.

 

[Edinlass]

It makes no odds to me if she was loud or shy but some people are putting so much emphasis on her being a shrinking violet it borders on cringeworthy and I personally think it's a bit unfair to this young woman's character, however well intended it may be. I'm probably on my own in that thought but that's just the way I look at it.

I also think it's a way of pushing the idea that Becky was a 16 year old child, not a 16 year old girl entering womanhood. I see her as the latter.

Don't see what this has to do with what happened to her tho! All entitled to our opinion, I just fear her family may be reading this at some point & wouldn't want to offend in any way!

 

[Edinlass]

The Family were saying BW was shy when they were making appeals. They couldn't see that she would just randomly go off, and wanted her disappearance to be taken as urgent and serious as there are so many youngsters that run off in a huff or whatever and come back perfectly safe.

Yup, when you put it like that it makes perfect sense!

Thanks

 

[Clio]

Does anyone have any idea on what kind of other evidence the police would need to charge the '4' OTHER than finding the body on their property?

That's a good question. I'd guess that if they admitted to knowingly storing the bags/boxes and not calling the police, that might in itself be enough to charge them as there would only be their word for it that they didn't realize what they were storing.
<rsbm>
So if the four claim they didn't know what was in the bags but the circumstances - that NM's stepsister was missing, that he'd asked them to store mysterious bags a few days after she disappeared - are such that it was pretty obvious there was something dodgy going on, perhaps that itself might count as belief that he was guilty of something. Ultimately I guess it'll come down to whether a jury believe them if they say they didn't know what they were storing.

It is a good question. And that all sounds plausible but why would all 4 admit to knowingly storing the bags/boxes though? Particularly since not all of the 4 lived there? Surely there has to be more to it.

 

[Insp.Dots]

That's a good question. I'd guess that if they admitted to knowingly storing the bags/boxes and not calling the police, that might in itself be enough to charge them as there would only be their word for it that they didn't realize what they were storing.

I was just having a look at the definition of "Handling stolen goods", and to be found guilty of that you have to know or believe that the goods are stolen - I wonder if this might work in the same kind of way, in that the four are charged with assisting an offender "knowing or believing" him to be guilty of an offence. The Wiki page for handling stolen goods says: "The situation is further complicated by the concept of recklessness or wilful blindness to the circumstances; either will be treated as a belief that the goods are stolen. Thus, suspicion will be converted into belief when the facts are so obvious that belief may safely be imputed."

So if the four claim they didn't know what was in the bags but the circumstances - that NM's stepsister was missing, that he'd asked them to store mysterious bags a few days after she disappeared - are such that it was pretty obvious there was something dodgy going on, perhaps that itself might count as belief that he was guilty of something. Ultimately I guess it'll come down to whether a jury believe them if they say they didn't know what they were storing.

Thanks, yes it is intriguing. I can't find the connection between them and NM/SH, which then makes me wonder. We 'think' NM was in quite a panic and with SH's help was doing his best to get away with this. Would he be stupid enough to think he could dump the body (forgive the term) at the other property and put ALL the blame on them? I know this is a wild and whacky thought but we are dealing with someone who was panicking and fighting for his freedom. MOO

 

[Insp.Dots]

It is a good question. And that all sounds plausible but why would all 4 admit to knowingly storing the bags/boxes though? Particularly since not all of the 4 lived there? Surely there has to be more to it.

Who says that they have admitted to it? All i've heard or seen posted is they found things in their garden and called the police.

 

[Clio]

Who says that they have admitted to it? All i've heard or seen posted is they found things in their garden and called the police.

Nobody has said that they've admitted it - Kaly99 was theorising

That's a good question. I'd guess that if they admitted to knowingly storing the bags/boxes and not calling the police, that might in itself be enough to charge them as there would only be their word for it that they didn't realize what they were storing.

And I could understand Kaly99's theory applying to the 2 that lived in Barton Court but couldn't see how it applied to the other 2

I think many of us are struggling to find an explanation of how so many people have been charged and it's pretty impossible given that we know so little

 

[mrazda71]

I'm guessing, just from the group that's been set up on facebook supporting them, that KD, DD & JP weren't chums with JI judging by the complete lack of even a mention of his name!

 

[Home247]

What's the group called ?

 

[ChuckieD]

Don't see what this has to do with what happened to her tho! All entitled to our opinion, I just fear her family may be reading this at some point & wouldn't want to offend in any way!

It doesn't. Not quite sure why it would offend, it's not offensive. Not quite sure where your aggression is coming from, to be honest.

To clarify, I'm not talking about her family or friends saying she is shy, I'm talking about strangers on forums and comments sections taking the 'shy' comments and turning Becky into a completely introverted, incapable, socially inept shrinking violet off the back of her families comments.

 

[Edinlass]

It doesn't. Not quite sure why it would offend, it's not offensive. Not quite sure where your aggression is coming from, to be honest.

To clarify, I'm not talking about her family or friends saying she is shy, I'm talking about strangers on forums and comments sections taking the 'shy' comments and turning Becky into a completely introverted, incapable, socially inept shrinking violet off the back of her families comments.

I am in no way being aggressive so we shall just leave it at that.

 

[Alyce]

I'd like to think that the evidence the police have in order to be able to charge him with assisting an offender amounts to more than just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.



I know he was a line chef a couple of years ago but I doubt this is the case - he was probably grilling tuna or steaming dumplings.

De we know exactly what is meant by "disposal" in the assisting an offender charge. Does it just refer to any action that prevents the body being found, e.g. moving the body from the place of death or does it imply more than that e.g. attempting to bury the body?

I am sure ( well I certainly hope ! ) the police have good evidence against JI, but what I meant was....if he just happened to be at Barton Court at the crucial time - say perhaps he was staying overnight with KD for some reason ?, then he might have got involved, when he would not otherwise have done so.

Re disposal, yes I would have thought it covers any action from just helping to move the body right up to actively burying or otherwise permanently disposing of the body.

 

[Kaly99]

That all sounds plausible but why would all 4 admit to knowingly storing the bags/boxes though? Particularly since not all of the 4 lived there? Surely there has to be more to it.

As you say, I guess that comes back to the whole question of how these four people are all involved in this! The obvious story for the two who lived in the house would be to say they knew the bags/boxes were there but didn't realize what was in them; they'd have to be pretty brazen to say they didn't know they were there at all. So then they'd need to explain how they arrived in the garden in the first place - could they have been the ones to tell police that the other two helped with that?

I did wonder if JI and/or DD could be the link between NM and JP/KD. Perhaps NM called JI asking for help, and JI told him that he knew people who lived close by who might be able to help out. Hence it would be difficult to explain how the bags got there without mentioning that JI and DD were involved too.

I guess it's also possible that none of these people realized what they were getting into at first, even if they started to figure it out later, and so they've just told the police the truth. I bet NM would've hidden the body parts pretty well, wrapping them up and probably covering them up with other things, so it might not have been obvious at first what was in the bags. Considering how completely bizarre it seems that people would agree to store a dead body in their back garden, that almost seems like the most likely option!

It's definitely a weird one, that's for sure...

 

[ChuckieD]

I'm guessing, just from the group that's been set up on facebook supporting them, that KD, DD & JP weren't chums with JI judging by the complete lack of even a mention of his name!

I've read the complete opposite on Twitter - probably why rumour's not allowed on here :laughing:

 

[Cherwell]

I too shall say again ...

What does speculation about the shyness of or confidence of Becky bring to the discussion at this point?

It helps to have a picture of the victim's character. Sometimes it has a bearing on why they were killed.

 

[Wallace]

The 28 hours can be explained easily. She was missing approx 4 hours before they first tried to report her missing. The family said that were told they had to wait 24 hours, something they appear to have taken literally. IF there is also someone (now who could that be) saying that they are sure she will turn up and reminding them they need to wait, it adds further clarity.

The Police usually expect a run away to turn up in a couple of days (48 hours) from the initial point that the report is filed.

So that gets us to our 3 days. The Police then start to seriously ramp up their investigation.

Take the shy thing with a pinch of salt. Whether she was or wasn't it really doesn't matter. A missing person is a missing person and the Police have a process to go through.