GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #4

[mrazda71]

It helps to have a picture of the victim's character. Sometimes it has a bearing on why they were killed.

What? People are murdered because there are murderers! Not because they were shy or confident or anything else for that matter!

 

[eneri12]

Edited to say ignore my post I found the fb group. Not much in the way of defence only support from friends and family.

 

[Henwah]

What? People are murdered because there are murderers! Not because they were shy or confident or anything else for that matter!

I think the point was they might respond differently to circumstances (e.g. Discovering drugs, other crimes etc), resulting in a response from a perpetrator .. Not that they were killed for being shy

 

[Cherwell]

What? People are murdered because there are murderers! Not because they were shy or confident or anything else for that matter!

You miss the point. Victims are sometimes randomly chosen, yes of course. But often events are driven by character, the victim's as well as the killer's.

Let's take a hypothetical example. Someone who is very shy or timid might not be perceived as a danger to a person with something to hide. Whereas a bolder, more confident person might threaten to report them - whether it be to the police or a deceived partner or whoever.

 

[Henwah]

I'm sticking with the theory NM was involved in something dodgy with the Demetrius lot, and she stumbled across something, accidental death occurred but in circumstances NM needed to make go away, and involved the Demetrius's enough to make them help, and that SH and JP unwittingly got involved thinking it was about contraband

 

[Henwah]

What are you talking about? The point is that a perpetrator would react differently based on their belief as to whether a person would 'hold their tongue' in light of a discovery, and factors such as shyness might influence that. There is no judgement intended about the perception of her by her family, I struggle to understand how you arrived there to be honest

 

[Henwah]

I struggle to understand how you arrive at a scenario that is like something out of an American Crime drama than anything based on fact.

My comments were mainly made following another users comments which have since been removed, I assume by Admin.

Because we have a scenario where a seemingly unplanned death resulted in a group of people deciding to help clear up.. There must be a pretty good reason.. We have another person who had enough reason to get herself charged with perverting the course of justice, but not assisting an offender (suggesting she knew he was into something dodgy, but not the murder)

 

[mrazda71]

Because we have a scenario where a seemingly unplanned death resulted in a group of people deciding to help clear up.. There must be a pretty good reason.. We have another person who had enough reason to get herself charged with perverting the course of justice, but not assisting an offender (suggesting she knew he was into something dodgy, but not the murder)

None of which is fact ... just assumptions.

 

[Henwah]

None of which is fact ... just assumptions.

Yes, isn't that the point of this forum? Some assumptions are more plausible than others

 

[mrazda71]

Yes, isn't that the point of this forum? Some assumptions are more plausible than others

Because it verges on victim blaming to suggest that had Becky been as shy as her family had said she was, she may not have been murdered cause she would've been more likely to keep her mouth shut.

 

[Cherwell]

Because it verges on victim blaming to suggest that had Becky been as shy as her family had said she was, she may not have been murdered cause she would've been more likely to keep her mouth shut.

No one is blaming the victim. We are allowed to discuss victims. We are allowed to discuss theories, possible motives and possible scenarios. That is the point of this website.

I think it's understandable that people may feel emotional about what has happened, but it doesn't help to bring that into theoretical discussions.

 

[Henwah]

'Victim blaming'? You are applying your emotions to what is a logic process - I have no judgment or interest in emotions or perceived characteristics, beyond how they may have affected the events that resulted in her being killed.. It's about trying to empathise with the circumstances in which the apparent actions might take place, her being shy or otherwise is just one of many things to test against the facts to see if they fit, I'm not subject to the evidence so it's just a theory, like all the rest

 

[Tealgrove]

IMO I don't believe that Becky stumbled upon something that NM was up to. If you go back to the interview with Becky's uncle and father, wherein Becky's dad was so distraught, I believe the uncle was trying to send a message. He was hard to understand as Becky's dad was sobbing but if I'm not mistaken, Becky's uncle said that everyone understood that sometimes things happen quickly, in the spur of the moment without thinking. (I'm paraphrasing badly but that was the just of it). I also go back to Becky's dad's FB post that got everybody thinking in the wrong direction. She may very well have been murdered to keep her mouth shut but I don't think it was because NM was up to something dodgy. I think he needed to cover up a sexual assault. How he managed to drag 5 other people into this is beyond me but we will find out eventually. MOO.

 

[Henwah]

IMO I don't believe that Becky stumbled upon something that NM was up to. If you go back to the interview with Becky's uncle and father, wherein Becky's dad was so distraught, I believe the uncle was trying to send a message. He was hard to understand as Becky's dad was sobbing but if I'm not mistaken, Becky's uncle said that everyone understood that sometimes things happen quickly, in the spur of the moment without thinking. (I'm paraphrasing badly but that was the just of it). I also go back to Becky's dad's FB post that got everybody thinking in the wrong direction. She may very well have been murdered to keep her mouth shut but I don't think it was because NM was up to something dodgy. I think he needed to cover up a sexual assault. How he managed to drag 5 other people into this is beyond me but we will find out eventually. MOO.

You've overlooked a huge amount of things to arrive at that though, discounting the 5 people helping out isn't a simple thing - you wouldn't chop up/hide a human on a whim.. And why does that statement rule out prior 'dodginess'? If anything it implies they knew of reasons why someone might act hastily despite it being the heat of the moment

 

[MissyLDT]

IMO I don't believe that Becky stumbled upon something that NM was up to. If you go back to the interview with Becky's uncle and father, wherein Becky's dad was so distraught, I believe the uncle was trying to send a message. He was hard to understand as Becky's dad was sobbing but if I'm not mistaken, Becky's uncle said that everyone understood that sometimes things happen quickly, in the spur of the moment without thinking. (I'm paraphrasing badly but that was the just of it). I also go back to Becky's dad's FB post that got everybody thinking in the wrong direction. She may very well have been murdered to keep her mouth shut but I don't think it was because NM was up to something dodgy. I think he needed to cover up a sexual assault. How he managed to drag 5 other people into this is beyond me but we will find out eventually. MOO.

Perhaps if others or at least some of them played a part in said sexual assault , it would be in their interest to help with the cover up.

 

[Tealgrove]

You've overlooked a huge amount of things to arrive at that though, discounting the 5 people helping out isn't a simple thing - you wouldn't chop up/hide a human on a whim.. And why does that statement rule out prior 'dodginess'? If anything it implies they knew of reasons why someone might act hastily despite it being the heat of the moment

Actually I haven't overlooked anything if you look back at any of my previous posts over the past several weeks. I have not discounted the 5 people, I just haven't quite figured out how they fit in yet as most people on this thread continue to try and figure out. I never said that the statement ruled out dodginess. I just presented my opinion. My goodness but people are testy this evening. MOO is my opinion.

 

[Henwah]

Actually I haven't overlooked anything if you look back at any of my previous posts over the past several weeks. I have not discounted the 5 people, I just haven't quite figured out how they fit in yet as most people on this thread continue to try and figure out. I never said that the statement ruled out dodginess. I just presented my opinion. My goodness but people are testy this evening. MOO is my opinion.

Wasn't supposed to be 'testy', sorry if it came across like that. I was just trying to say that any theory has to account for those people being 'happy' participants

 

[Insp.Dots]

Nobody has said that they've admitted it - Kaly99 was theorising



And I could understand Kaly99's theory applying to the 2 that lived in Barton Court but couldn't see how it applied to the other 2

I think many of us are struggling to find an explanation of how so many people have been charged and it's pretty impossible given that we know so little

SOrry Kaly99 I took it as fact rather than theory and thought I'd missed something.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Wasn't supposed to be 'testy', sorry if it came across like that. I was just trying to say that any theory has to account for those people being 'happy' participants

Sorry, I don't understand, why would a theory have to include them being 'happy' participants?

 

[mrazda71]

I apologise for the word 'despicable': as Henwah said, it was harsh, and it was unfair. I'm sorry.

Let me try to explain what I mean with a completely different case. After the Aurora cinema Batman massacre, there was good evidence that the shooter was unable to shoot people that stood their ground and made eye contact with him. No one could possibly blame anyone who tried to run away or who was afraid to make eye contact with the shooter; no one could possibly blame anyone who tries to run away or who is afraid to make eye contact with the shooter in the next massacre. It's purely about trying to understand how people that commit unimaginable crimes behave, how that shooter chose to pour a dozen bullets into one person and could barely graze another, and if that knowledge could save one person in the future that's a precious thing. No one could blame someone who doesn't react in the 'right' way, but if someone can from that information, that's a life saved that wouldn't have been otherwise. That is what trying to understand victims is, or should be, about.

But this is a case where victim and alleged killer are close family so it's completely different than any random killing.