GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #5

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So perhaps someone can help me out because a few things have left me thinking hmm today.

So
1) NM says they went to teach Becky a lesson and kidnap her. Presumably when one is thinking of doing this then they would prefer to do it when there is no one else around...if that's the case who told the police initially that they were visiting that morning? NM/SH admitted to police they'd been visiting that morning so I'm presuming someone other than Becky saw them there which meant they couldn't deny it and they had to admit to being there

2. If that's the case then a) they obviously hadn't planned on someone being around so why risk carrying out the kidnap when youve been seen and b) iirc it was NMS mom who was in the house in the morning so what reason did they give her to stay at the house whilst she went to hospital? Was it normal for them to be in the house alone with Becky? If so there must have been plenty of other opportunities - why that day? And secondly when Becky supposedly left the house that would mean that NM/SH was in the home alone. Was that a normal occurrence or would it have made other family suspicious? Why say they'd heard her leave at all? - why not say they left whilst she was at home?

3. It's been reported that Becky had been dropped off by a friend early hours of that morning - did NM/SH actually know that she may not be there or was this opportunistic? But then you have the thoughts of him walking around with a stun gun and mask "just in case" the opportunity arose.

4. They both claimed to have heard Becky leave yet NM then stated that he went in to do the deed whilst SH was sat in the car which turns the whole of the above on its head.

5. I do wonder if NM/SH went to visit AG that morning, whatever happened happened and I think she had her suspicions. I don't know why but I've got a feeling that she was part of the reason police looked at NM. Iirc Beckys dad had put on his fb that police released his phone but had kept Anjis. I wonder if there was something on there which further helped police I. E a text about becky or details about the morning visit.

So many questions

And then of course there's the question of why get people involved who didn't need to be. Fair enough if you are going to store something at someone's then ask their permission but why get the other two to help move the parts, it's not as if they hadn't already done the dirty work themselves. They could have done the moving themselves....the more people involved the higher the risk of something going wrong


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Just caught up on the developments as I've been away.

This is worse than I could have imagined. Poor Becky. They are both seriously sick individuals and SH seems to be as guilty as he is. Heart goes out to Becky's family having to listen to that. Obviously it's all horrific but I find the bit about going home and ordering a take away so disturbing.

Can't make up my mind about KD,DD, JP and JI. The cannabis story sounds plausible but I don't really believe they would willingly hide cannabis without taking a look at the goods?
 
Just caught up on the developments as I've been away.

This is worse than I could have imagined. Poor Becky. They are both seriously sick individuals and SH seems to be as guilty as he is. Heart goes out to Becky's family having to listen to that. Obviously it's all horrific but I find the bit about going home and ordering a take away so disturbing.

Can't make up my mind about KD,DD, JP and JI. The cannabis story sounds plausible but I don't really believe they would willingly hide cannabis without taking a look at the goods?
Link to the daily mail story above states they thought it was items from a robbery . I guess it is plausible but....I dunno, me personally I'd have been having a right old mooch to see exactly what I was storing.

Why does SH have charges relating to stopping unlawful burial/perverting course of justice but NM doesn't?

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Link to the daily mail story above states they thought it was items from a robbery . I guess it is plausible but....I dunno, me personally I'd have been having a right old mooch to see exactly what I was storing.

Why does SH have charges relating to stopping unlawful burial/perverting course of justice but NM doesn't?

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Except you probably wouldn't want your fingerprints or DNA anywhere near a package of drugs or stolen goods.

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say I reckon NM was dealing and the rest of them knew it. Why else would friends accept a HUGE body weight bag of weed without asking questions? I don't think these friends knew it was Becky but they must have considered a potential link as soon as it was reported Becky was missing, even if they thought it was just clothes or evidence. At that point I would have looked in that bag and immediately called the cops.

Bang Matthews and Hoare up for life and give the rest 10 years for being stupid.
 
I am thinking that possibly NM/SH went to the house on that morning, perhaps knowing that Becky would be there as it was half term. Or perhaps just to visit his mother ?
As we know, AG was out when they got there, so I am surmising they asked Becky to go back to theirs for the day.
This would have allowed them to use the stun gun at their house and have control over Becky.

But Becky refused to go with them, she was scared of NM, so they tried to force her.
I dont believe they had the stun guns with them, otherwise why not use them.
Likewise I dont buy the * he was wearing a mask and it slipped so Becky recognised him *..... she would have recognised him anyway, a mask only covers the face, not his whole body.

As for SH saying she knows nothing ? If the facts so far are to be believed, it took several days for NM to dispose of the body ( hate typing that ) with several trips to stores for additional supplies , accompanied by SH. Did she not wonder what they were buying the stuff for ? and how did NM keep the body in the bathroom for that length of time without her knowing. If that is the best defence she is going to offer, it is ridiculous.
 
I have nothing useful to add to the thread because I'm horrified.
All I can say is that like others have posted, this is far worse than I'd imagined.
 
Oh, and if it were manslaughter, why then stab her 15 times after death??

If I had to guess - he was angry with Becky for "cheating" him out of his planned triumph by dying. I don't doubt they wanted her alive and quite possibly planned to hold her for an extended period (hence not having the items they bought to dispose of the body in advance) before killing her.

I also find the mask etc story reasonably credible; I suspect they were acting out a long held fantasy which wouldn't necessarily have involved Becky specifically but the abduction of a young woman.

Just utter scum, the pair.. wonder if they fancied themselves as a new Fred and Rosemary, or Brady and Hindley.
 
This case made me register on websleuths many months ago. I was so curious what on earth happened to this poor girl. Really wish I had not read the details now, despite all the cases I've read here I was still utterly shocked, a young girl getting chopped up by a saw is horrifying.

What baffles me is how the horrid couple both had an interest in young girls - how does that conversation even start between two people?

Obviously it is only day one but I get the impression the other guys involved all seem to be deeply stupid rather than evil. I'd guess NM was a drug dealer of some sort and had a variety of idiots who would store stuff for a fee.

Once the trial is over I'd expect a LOT of dirt to come out about the nasty couple.
 
I had to step out. I can't believe what I'm reading! He wanted to teach her a lesson for treating his mum badly? This is insane. How does he think Anjie feels now? Good lord, that poor woman, that poor family. They are so brave for being in that court room. Tales of running out to vomit, I can't even.. :( This is just so messed up!!

Anjie wasn't in the courtroom.

I was side eyeing her 7 months ago and I'm still side eyeing her now.

There's no way she arrived back home at 12:45 - a maximum of 100 minutes after the murder, and probably much less - and didn't know anything had happened.

Also, she had obviously been complaining about Becky to her son.
 
I thought that Anjie not being in the courtroom would be because she is being called as a witness ?
 
But we've heard from Becky's family that it was Anji who had raised Becky from a toddler and was for all intents and purpose Beckys 'mum' ... I'm not surprised she's not in court to be honest. Her health isn't great and what an awful position she's in!
 
If her health is very poor, she may not be able to make it to court, in addition to it being understandable that some the family might not feel able to face hearing the nature of some of the evidence.
 
Really is horrific this case. I've took a good few hours away from it tonight because it is so harrowing and I shiver to wonder what details will be revealed on day 2,3,4,5 in Court.
 
Anjie wasn't in the courtroom.

I was side eyeing her 7 months ago and I'm still side eyeing her now.

There's no way she arrived back home at 12:45 - a maximum of 100 minutes after the murder, and probably much less - and didn't know anything had happened.

Also, she had obviously been complaining about Becky to her son.

I wasn't referring to Anjie specifically in the courtroom, I had not read if she was there. Just family in general, her Mum was reported to be sobbing loudly and her Aunt left to vomit. To clarify
 
Just wondering what was wrong with my previous post regarding Bristol Post Fb page? I thought we could refer to media fb pages??? And summarise what was on there???

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Just wondering what was wrong with my previous post regarding Bristol Post Fb page? I thought we could refer to media fb pages??? And summarise what was on there???

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I think we can refer to msm posts but not hearsay/comments from people on the posts
 
Just a thought about his wearing a face mask so BW "wouldn't recognize him..." I think he knew she'd recognize him in an assault, mask or no mask. And, I think whatever went on that morning during the attack and her subsequent murder, I think she definitely enraged him to the point of not just murder, but violence post-mortem (eg. stabbing her 15 times after she'd died).

In at least one article there is reference to her telling her "child pyschologist" in 2013 that she was afraid of NM. It is mentioned also in respect to that that she suffered from anorexia and anxiety. I'm wondering if the idea that she may have been assaulted before by NM has entered anyone's minds (at least her 'psychologist' - who I'm guessing was actually a counselor or psychiatrist). I can easily see an anxious, anorexic, teenage gal telling her counselor that she "feared" her step-brother without going into further detail (in an attempt to protect her family's reputation). Sexual abuse is a common cause of anorexia, not to mention anxiety.

So...going on that hunch re unwelcome incestuous history...what if he'd decided he wanted to not only rape her that morning, but also to videotape it (for selling OR for his personal collection...the couple did have video of this type of thing involving suffocating a teenage girl during rape on at least one device--a phone that was confiscated). THAT would explain the importance of his wearing a mask that morning--even if she'd personally recognize him during the assault.

And what if BW objected strongly to this new development (videotaping) and resisted even despite the screwdriver and/or stun gun--and this enormous resistance and struggle--especially if she ripped off his privacy mask--fed his rage to the point of overkill? (She quite possibly even kicked him or injured him where it counts during the struggle, enraging him further.)

Just a hypothesis.
 
Just a thought about his wearing a face mask so BW "wouldn't recognize him..." I think he knew she'd recognize him in an assault, mask or no mask. And, I think whatever went on that morning during the attack and her subsequent murder, I think she definitely enraged him to the point of not just murder, but violence post-mortem (eg. stabbing her 15 times after she'd died).

In at least one article there is reference to her telling her "child pyschologist" in 2013 that she was afraid of NM. It is mentioned also in respect to that that she suffered from anorexia and anxiety. I'm wondering if the idea that she may have been assaulted before by NM has entered anyone's minds (at least her 'psychologist' - who I'm guessing was actually a counselor or psychiatrist). I can easily see an anxious, anorexic, teenage gal telling her counselor that she "feared" her step-brother without going into further detail (in an attempt to protect her family's reputation). Sexual abuse is a common cause of anorexia, not to mention anxiety.

So...going on that hunch re unwelcome incestuous history...what if he'd decided he wanted to not only rape her that morning, but also to videotape it (for selling OR for his personal collection...the couple did have video of this type of thing involving suffocating a teenage girl during rape on at least one device--a phone that was confiscated). THAT would explain the importance of his wearing a mask that morning--even if she'd personally recognize him during the assault.

And what if BW objected strongly to this new development (videotaping) and resisted even despite the screwdriver and/or stun gun--and this enormous resistance and struggle--especially is she ripped off his privacy mask--fed his rage to the point of overkill? (She quite possibly even kicked him or injured him where it counts during the struggle, enraging him further.)

Just a hypothesis.
Interesting theory and not beyond bounds of possibility given what we've heard today. Have you got a link to the info about the nature of the video found on SH/NM's phone?
 
So...going on that hunch re unwelcome incestuous history...


Sorry to nit pick but it wouldn't be "incestuous" They weren't blood relations.

It's unbelievable to think that so much has been revealed today and yet it's just day one of what could be 5+ weeks!
 
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