GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #9

[YidArmyRach]

This is so insane, I wonder if he really thought he was helping his mother when he came up with this absurd kidnapping plan to teach Becky a lesson? I'm going to do this, and then Becky will be neater and nicer to my mother?

But he hadn't noticed all the other clutter and mess in Becky's house, let alone his own!

 

[Clio]

When NM/SH appeared in court back in March via videolink, NM didn't want to look at SH - he asked if the video link could be turned off. Does anybody remember the date?

I think by that time, he'd written his "confession" on 2nd March and his amendment on 4th March.

I wonder if he couldn't look at her because he knew he'd messed up when telling "their story"?

 

[sar2them1984]

Her body language is very defensive in the video.

And another thing, NM rarely having a phone signal in the middle of Bristol, a large built up city? Wonder what network he was on.

Tbf I had problems on a regular basis with signal on my phone when I lived there which wasn't too long ago. I was on EE

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[ColourPurple]

A lot more info in this article. I'll add examples but too much to quote in full

He told jurors: 'I knocked on her door. I don't know exactly what I said or even if I said anything.
'The door was opened and straight away I used the Sellotape around Becky's mouth. She turned around and I think I said something along the lines of "As long as you do as you're told you are going to be fine".
'She got down onto her knees and I got the handcuffs. I put the handcuffs on her hands, from behind.
'When she was on her knees I told her to keep her eyes shut. I was getting her into the suitcase when my mask slipped and my hands went over her eyes and I took the mask off and Sellotaped over her eyes.
'That's when I said she needed to bend her legs to get her into the suitcase.'
Matthews said Becky did not resist him and did not try and fight him off, until he tried putting her in the suitcase.
'That's when she started like wriggling and resisting. That's when ... that's when I got my fingers on her nose,' he said.
'To restrict her breathing, so that she would pass out. I put my hand on top of the Sellotape but that didn't work but she was still managing to breath.
'I remember putting more Sellotape to connect the eyes to the mouth parts because she was wriggling.
'Then I tried getting her back into the suitcase and saying "Don't struggle, you will be released unharmed" and she was still refusing to get into the suitcase.
'Then I thought to make her pass out I thought of knocking her out. I remember punching her just once and that was obviously not something I felt comfortable with trying to do it that way because there would be a lot of violence and pain.'
Matthews told the jury that he tried to make Becky lose consciousness by doing something he had learned in school by using his hands to restrict the blood flow to her head.
'Obviously after that she stopped ... stopped kicking,' he said.
'That's when I moved her head and started moving her legs and pushing her into the suitcase.

Jurors heard the couple drove home shortly after 7pm with the suitcase still in the boot of the car.
Matthews said: 'I didn’t tell Shauna, I wanted to hide it from her.
'Sometime that night or in the early hours of the morning I decided to dismember Becky’s body.
'I bought drain cleaner to dissolve the body but that didn’t work.
'I took the suitcase into the house the same day. After Shauna fell asleep I moved the suitcase into the front room.
'There wasn’t a lot of room - it was in the early hours of the morning.'
The court heard Matthews went to B&Q and bought a circular saw, mask and gloves and goggles the day after the killing.
He then drove back home, emptied the suitcase and put Becky's body in the bath.
At that point Matthews said he cut Becky’s clothes with scissors 'so they didn’t get caught up in the saw'.
He then stabbed her torso to let out fluids because he had heard on TV show CSI how dead bodies expand, jurors were told.
Matthews said he did not know how eight injuries were caused to Becky’s neck.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-box-claims-didn-t-mean-kill-16-year-old.html

 

[YidArmyRach]

[h=3]'The point was to get a good outcome'[/h]Matthews told the court he offered Karl Demetrius £10,000 for his help moving items and storing them, and chose him because “he didn’t know anyone else”.
He said it took him, Karl and James Ireland two trips to get the body parts into the van, before they were unloaded into the house.
The former delivery driver said he told the men not to look in the boxes, and watched as Karl and James put them into the shed.
He added another bag - a rucksack - the next day and promised to collect it in a few days.
Asked for his plan onwards, he said: “I tried to think of a plan - drive them out to the sea or something - but I didn’t know.”
Matthews said it was never part of the plan to hurt Becky and said: “The whole point, although it was a drastic thing, it was to get a good outcome.
“Obviously with what happened that’s not a good outcome.”
The judge has now adjourned proceedings for the day.
Court will resume tomorrow morning.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6713517

This has always been the part that will convince me that he really is as stupid as he is trying to make out. He offers someone £10,000 he hasn't got, to store body parts for him. He relies on this person doing as he has been told - ie not to look in the packages. So, someone offers you £10,000 to store some bags and you wouldn't look inside to see exactly what is that valuable.

In a few days he plans to retrieve his bags but won't have the money to pay up. What does he think these mates will do? Just accept it? Or refuse to hand over the bags, or at least look in them at this point?

At the very least, surely one of the people involved in storing the bags will eventually put two and two together when Becky doesn't ever turn up and consider passing he information on?

Why on earth would you involve other people in this? He could have disposed of the body on day one.

 

[Tortoise]

I expect she knows that they deleted their call records already.

searching for something else and came across this post on an old thread

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial 6m6 minutes ago

Jury hearing multiple calls between NM and KD were deleted from the call log on the night it's thought Becky's body was moved

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...England-19-February-2015-**ARRESTS**-6/page34

don't know whose phone it refers to though

ETA ah, it is NM's/SH's phone

 

[Insp.Dots]

I am just struggling more and more as the evidence comes in, when you think of how wide a normal bath is, the size of their bathroom, the size of the circular saw,....It beggars belief that he did all this without leaving any trace, the saw looks like you would need 2 hands on it doesn't it? Then I was thinking of the 8 injuries to neck from screwdriver (apologies for this) Is it possible he used the screwdriver to keep head in place while he cut?
I just can't see how he's done it on his own.
Then. looking at the long version of the interview with SH, I AM starting to believe her, she looked and spoke as if she was telling the truth. She looked across at Solicitor when DNA mentioned, which made me wonder if the bits she said about that perhaps came from her Solicitor telling her there was no DNA or evidence so far. If it was me, having no experience of this type of crime I would probably say something like well I KNOW i'm innocent and you won't find any evidence as I had nothing to do with it. I do wonder if that's the way SH was thinking?
Having said all that I would be much more vocal in my disgust and be shouting that I would never do something like that or help with it.
I still struggle with the '20' minute period of smoking & feeding the rabbit and that if NM's plan was kidnap why in the world would he do it when his Partner and Daughter around, why not just go there alone?
I also don't get the 'timing' of NM's actions. Becky had been away the night before, so there had been no big row at home then as far as we know, nothing that would push NM to think "Right, I've had enough, I'm going to teach her a lesson" or something.
So......... I don't believe the kidnap part, I think they went round, he went to talk to BW and perhaps moan about her behaviour, they had some kind of fight or she said something that wound him up so he went to 'shut her up'! He panicked got the duvet cover from the other room to wrap her in and then put her in boot, then had thought of her 'running away' so got her belongings to make it look that way.
I don't think SH was involved in the Murder but I still get the feeling that there IS something she either knew or suspected but was too scared to say.
I wish we knew what the 'shouting' was the night JI was there.
Gosh, what a trial!! Thanks for all the updates and allowing me to express my thoughts.
Poor poor Becky, she really was let down by many. RIP Sweet girl.

 

[ColourPurple]

Re the rape video. Its from 5-6 years ago originallybut was then transferred with other files to a laptop in Nov 2013

Co-prosecuting Richard Posner told the jury during admissions of 'agreed facts' the clip showed the attacker with his hand over the girl's face for one minute.
He said: 'There was a 17-minute film of a teenager being raped entitled "Virgin teen gets raped in her own house".
'The contents included a female having a hand put over her mouth for one minute.'
He added the apparent attack took place on the girl's bed and involved tying her hands and slapping her face.
The court has already heard Becky's body had 'injuries around the mouth and nose [...] consistent with a hand over the nose and mouth causing suffocation'.
The laptop also had 236 images and 21 movies showing an interest in teenagers, he said
The court heard the contents were downloaded in 2009 and 2010, and transferred to the laptop in a 'bulk transfer' in November 2013.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dn-t-mean-kill-16-year-old.html#ixzz3pmxd6hEv

 

[Edinlass]

That latest video IMO she is lying through her teeth, it's so obvious, the nervous giggles, the long pauses to get the story straight. There is literally no emotion. I want to see the prosecution rip them both to shreds.

 

[Insp.Dots]

This has always been the part that will convince me that he really is as stupid as he is trying to make out. He offers someone £10,000 he hasn't got, to store body parts for him. He relies on this person doing as he has been told - ie not to look in the packages. So, someone offers you £10,000 to store some bags and you wouldn't look inside to see exactly what is that valuable.

In a few days he plans to retrieve his bags but won't have the money to pay up. What does he think these mates will do? Just accept it? Or refuse to hand over the bags, or at least look in them at this point?

At the very least, surely one of the people involved in storing the bags will eventually put two and two together when Becky doesn't ever turn up and consider passing he information on?

Why on earth would you involve other people in this? He could have disposed of the body on day one.

Yes I agree, he certainly wasn't clever! I think sadly for the 'assistors', they did realize but didn't get to the Police quick enough. I do however think it possible that IF NM hadn't told Police they would have come clean.

 

[Tortoise]

I think they chose that day because it was half term (Becky would normally be at school otherwise) and they knew Anjie had a doctor's appointment. Must have done because they phoned her to ask her if Becky would be in or leave a key.

 

[Clio]

RE the longer version of SHs interview, post arrest

interesting that she says she does not know where the idea of kidnap came from - but didnt they discuss knocking out girls and taking them back to the attic on their phones ?

Did the police know at this point in time about the "attic" phone conversation though? If not, and that only came to light as a result of later phone analysis, it could explain the June addition of the conspiracy to kidnap charges.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

This has always been the part that will convince me that he really is as stupid as he is trying to make out. He offers someone £10,000 he hasn't got, to store body parts for him. He relies on this person doing as he has been told - ie not to look in the packages. So, someone offers you £10,000 to store some bags and you wouldn't look inside to see exactly what is that valuable.

In a few days he plans to retrieve his bags but won't have the money to pay up. What does he think these mates will do? Just accept it? Or refuse to hand over the bags, or at least look in them at this point?

At the very least, surely one of the people involved in storing the bags will eventually put two and two together when Becky doesn't ever turn up and consider passing he information on?

Why on earth would you involve other people in this? He could have disposed of the body on day one.

Exactly. Car boot to river/cliff/lake - easier job. He didn't have to make it quite so gruesome and complicated. He'd still have got caught though, with his fingerprint being in blood on the door frame, and from the smell and forensics in his car.

 

[Tortoise]

Exactly. Car boot to river/cliff/lake - easier job. He didn't have to make it quite so gruesome and complicated. He'd still have got caught though, with his fingerprint being in blood on the door frame, and from the smell and forensics in his car.

I think he has this thing about being smart and not being found lacking - what did he refer to it as, ah yes, anal, if he had thrown her in water her body could be found floating. to bury her he would need to dig a ditch - he wouldn't be able to manage that with his illness. So I think he gave himself time to work something out and the dismembering idea came to him.

 

[Hexenb]

I am just struggling more and more as the evidence comes in, when you think of how wide a normal bath is, the size of their bathroom, the size of the circular saw,....It beggars belief that he did all this without leaving any trace, the saw looks like you would need 2 hands on it doesn't it? Then I was thinking of the 8 injuries to neck from screwdriver (apologies for this) Is it possible he used the screwdriver to keep head in place while he cut?
I just can't see how he's done it on his own.
Then. looking at the long version of the interview with SH, I AM starting to believe her, she looked and spoke as if she was telling the truth. She looked across at Solicitor when DNA mentioned, which made me wonder if the bits she said about that perhaps came from her Solicitor telling her there was no DNA or evidence so far. If it was me, having no experience of this type of crime I would probably say something like well I KNOW i'm innocent and you won't find any evidence as I had nothing to do with it. I do wonder if that's the way SH was thinking?
Having said all that I would be much more vocal in my disgust and be shouting that I would never do something like that or help with it.
I still struggle with the '20' minute period of smoking & feeding the rabbit and that if NM's plan was kidnap why in the world would he do it when his Partner and Daughter around, why not just go there alone?
I also don't get the 'timing' of NM's actions. Becky had been away the night before, so there had been no big row at home then as far as we know, nothing that would push NM to think "Right, I've had enough, I'm going to teach her a lesson" or something.
So......... I don't believe the kidnap part, I think they went round, he went to talk to BW and perhaps moan about her behaviour, they had some kind of fight or she said something that wound him up so he went to 'shut her up'! He panicked got the duvet cover from the other room to wrap her in and then put her in boot, then had thought of her 'running away' so got her belongings to make it look that way.
I don't think SH was involved in the Murder but I still get the feeling that there IS something she either knew or suspected but was too scared to say.
I wish we knew what the 'shouting' was the night JI was there.
Gosh, what a trial!! Thanks for all the updates and allowing me to express my thoughts.
Poor poor Becky, she really was let down by many. RIP Sweet girl.

I must admit watching this interview with SH I felt the same as you. I am just so confused with so many things not adding up.

 

[ColourPurple]

Exactly. Car boot to river/cliff/lake - easier job. He didn't have to make it quite so gruesome and complicated. He'd still have got caught though, with his fingerprint being in blood on the door frame, and from the smell and forensics in his car.

It comes back to the question somebody else asked... why risk taking the body home when it was in the boot. He was going to make an excuse to go out and take a live kidnapped Becky somewhere but didn't just do the same with her body? If SH is such a sound sleeper he could've even drove somewhere in the middle of the night to dispose of it.

 

[Edinlass]

NM stating it was 'surreal' when describing dismembering BW is a strange choice of word? I would use that word to describe an event that was scary but also thrilling, a surreal experience favoured not a word to describe a traumatic, apparantly unplanned experience....

What are people's thoughts?

 

[Tortoise]

NM stating it was 'surreal' when describing dismembering BW is a strange choice of word? I would use that word to describe an event that was scary but also thrilling, a surreal experience favoured not a word to describe a traumatic experience....

What are people's thoughts?

I think he means he detached from what he was doing.

 

[ColourPurple]

NM stating it was 'surreal' when describing dismembering BW is a strange choice of word? I would use that word to describe an event that was scary but also thrilling, a surreal experience favoured not a word to describe a traumatic, not planned experience....

What are people's thoughts?

I think he used it in the sense that it didn't feel real but I know what you mean

 

[Tortoise]

That latest video IMO she is lying through her teeth, it's so obvious, the nervous giggles, the long pauses to get the story straight. There is literally no emotion. I want to see the prosecution rip them both to shreds.

she also doesn't answer the question about how she couldn't have been part of it - she just switches straight to how she felt seeing him in court. tactics. diversions. manipulating the interview. like when she was asked what she did on the weekend after Becky disappeared and she answered what she did every other day except the weekend. she is a gameplayer.