UK - Sabina Nessa, 28, found murdered in park, SE London, 18 Sep 2021 *Arrest*

[JuicyLucy]

Shall we brainstorm that reflective item?

First thing.. Why are they needed? To be seen right?

So:

Night time leisure activities - as said up thread, dog lead, cycle accessories. Water/drink containers? Helmets. Shoes!

General "be seen" safety - hi viz clothing. Construction sites (often yellow), railway (usually orange), road and traffic workers (orange?), warehouse workers where there are forklifts etc (yellow I've seen).

Someone said red tape.

I'm not sold on masks being reflective, but adding to our brainstorm list.

What else?

Next question - why not dump it?

His dna on it (drinks/mask)?

Something that links to him (work place?)

No bins??

Sabina's dna on it, afraid to dump it in case he's seen?

Pitch in, anyone...

It was said on social media that she was wearing a slip dress and "sparkly boots". perhaps it's a matching sparkly item of clothing - scarf, wrap, etc.

ETA: Not just social media in fact - Missing teacher Sabina Nessa’s body discovered by dog walker

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Police reveal man hunted over Sabina Nessa's murder is shown in CCTV holding mystery red item | Daily Mail Online


The Metropolitan Police revealed their interest in the red reflective item today as they appealed for witnesses in the Kidbrooke area who may have seen the suspect.

It comes after forensics teams recovered a glove on Kidbrooke Park Road, close to where Sabina Nessa's body was discovered, in a search of the area last night.



Could the item be the other glove?

Yes, glove would make good sense

 

[Lod76]

Met Police chiefs say "urgent enquiries" are continuing to identify a man seen on CCTV shortly before the murder took place.


https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/n...s-appeal-to-kent-to-identify-cctv-man-254621/

Interesting. Seems to be acting very suspiciously and definitely turning his head from the camera. If it is 100% before the attack then that would indicate premeditation. I'm not convinced it is though and it could just be an error in reporting if that's the only source that has said it's before.

 

[Dotta]

Interesting. Seems to be acting very suspiciously and definitely turning his head from the camera. If it is 100% before the attack then that would indicate premeditation. I'm not convinced it is though and it could just be an error in reporting if that's the only source that has said it's before.

So he knew exactly what time she would be leaving the house. He knew about the date in the pub. MOO

 

[TigerLight]

If we are to believe the CCTV is before the attack as is being reported by the media, then the attacker is on his way to a pre-meditated attack. He must have known her. He looks edgy, nervous and keyed up. He is fiddling with what is in his hands. I don't know the area but surely it is no coincidence he is in the square where the pub is located. I think he knew she was on her way to a date. He went along to the pub and scoped it out, saw she wasn't there but the date was (he recognised him because it was Sabina's old friend) and quickly rushed to find Sabina along the route. Perhaps he looks behind him to see if the 'old friend' had spotted him and was following or watching him?

(Edited: I'm new to posting here but see people write MOO a lot. This is my own opinion - if I need to add this.)

 

[Alyce]

Interesting. Seems to be acting very suspiciously and definitely turning his head from the camera. If it is 100% before the attack then that would indicate premeditation. I'm not convinced it is though and it could just be an error in reporting if that's the only source that has said it's before.

I agree. If they hadn't said it, I would definitely have thought it had to be after the attack. If it definitely is before, then he looks very shifty, as though he's off to do something dodgy.

 

[Alyce]

If we are to believe the CCTV is before the attack as is being reported by the media, then the attacker is on his way to a pre-meditated attack. He must have known her. He looks edgy, nervous and keyed up. He is fiddling with what is in his hands. I don't know the area but surely it is no coincidence he is in the square where the pub is located. I think he knew she was on her way to a date. He went along to the pub and scoped it out, saw she wasn't there but the date was (he recognised him because it was Sabina's old friend) and quickly rushed to find Sabina along the route. Perhaps he looks behind him to see if the 'old friend' had spotted him and was following or watching him?

Yes, I think that's a very good thought. He enters the park from Pegler Square end and catches Sabina just as she comes out of her flat. Having just walked the route, he will know how busy - or not - the park was and would be confident to take her back in there without worry of being seen.

 

[Dotta]

I have a question.
As I understand Sabina lived in an apartament building in an estate with many such buildings, right?
It was 8.30 pm - dark, but quite early.
Where I live there are a lot of people milling around at this time, especially dog walkers.
It is just unthinkable to kill sb at this time at the front of a block of flats.
Im lost for words.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

I have a question.
As I understand Sabina lived in an apartament building in an estate with many such buildings, right?
It was 8.30 pm - dark, but quite early.
Where I live there are a lot of people milling around at this time, especially dog walkers.
It is just unthinkable to kill sb at this time at the front of a block of flats.
Im lost for words.

I do know what you mean, but I live in more central London than Sabina did, and I can see how there might be a couple of minutes’ window where no-one is around to see you quickly striking someone and incapacitating them and dragging them off (although CCTV might catch you).

I am always reminded of Jill Dando, attractive and famous, not being witnessed actually being killed, and not being found for a full ten minutes or so dead on the ground in broad daylight after being shot on her doorstep in a fairly busy and well-to-do West London street with lots of foot and road traffic in absolutely broad daylight. Her killer was witnessed by many before and after hanging around and escaping but seemed to have scoped out the street, and from what I can tell, took his chance.

 

[DFR3217]

I have a question.
As I understand Sabina lived in an apartament building in an estate with many such buildings, right?
It was 8.30 pm - dark, but quite early.
Where I live there are a lot of people milling around at this time, especially dog walkers.
It is just unthinkable to kill sb at this time at the front of a block of flats.
Im lost for words.

I live in a block of flats, not in London, but in a quite nice city, and no one mills around outside, at any time really. I wonder what the difference is? what makes somewhere feel like a community where people do that? I suspect where SN lived would have had a bit of a commuter feel to it, people go to work, come home, and just go inside their flats. Astell Road looks like a quiet side street. The flats I live in are on quite a busy road so quite a few people walk along it, so you couldn't really kill someone outside these flats, but it's the people walking past, not the people living in the flats that would deter someone.

 

[Sherlockhames]

Shall we brainstorm that reflective item?

First thing.. Why are they needed? To be seen right?

So:

Night time leisure activities - as said up thread, dog lead, cycle accessories. Water/drink containers? Helmets. Shoes!

General "be seen" safety - hi viz clothing. Construction sites (often yellow), railway (usually orange), road and traffic workers (orange?), warehouse workers where there are forklifts etc (yellow I've seen).

Someone said red tape.

I'm not sold on masks being reflective, but adding to our brainstorm list.

What else?

Next question - why not dump it?

His dna on it (drinks/mask)?

Something that links to him (work place?)

No bins??

Sabina's dna on it, afraid to dump it in case he's seen?

Pitch in, anyone...

Construction site gloves?!

I work in property and have visited sites and been required to wear gloves as part of the official safety wear (along with hard hat and steel toe cap shoes!)

A quick google search brings up loads of red ones, some of which are rubberised (so would be reflective).

He could either have been spotted before or after the attack with such gloves (by that I mean whether the cctv is before or after the murder is not as relevant. As he would have had them both before and after). If he was a construction worker on the site in that estate he would most likely have his own pair (as all workers have their own apparel).

Also, if he was a construction worker/site manger/basically anyone with a need to be at the site daily he may well have been aware of her. But to all intents and purposes is a stranger to her. And might also account for why he is difficult to trace as he would be outside of her circle, but also not known as a regular to the site. So could be why he has been difficult to trace (although surely only a matter of time if this does tally up - also matches with trackie bums and a hoodie in terms of everyday wear).

 

[DFR3217]

Don't know if anyone has shared this yet. It doesn't contain any facts that haven't been reported elsewhere, but there is a bit at the end talking about what 'criminologists (unnamed)' think, all speculation obviously, but given we can't do much but speculate at the moment, it might add something to the speculation.
Sabina Nessa killing suspect ‘tried to hide reflective red item’

 

[Sherlockhames]

I live in a block of flats, not in London, but in a quite nice city, and no one mills around outside, at any time really. I wonder what the difference is? what makes somewhere feel like a community where people do that? I suspect where SN lived would have had a bit of a commuter feel to it, people go to work, come home, and just go inside their flats. Astell Road looks like a quiet side street. The flats I live in are on quite a busy road so quite a few people walk along it, so you couldn't really kill someone outside these flats, but it's the people walking past, not the people living in the flats that would deter someone.

Really randomly I am aware of Kidbrooke village as I took my kids to sutcliffe park at the end of lockdown in 2020 (wasn’t our planned destination but our 2 year old had terrible car sickness so we just stopped by the nearest area of green space for a picnic - literally anywhere that was at least a change from our 3 month lockdown but we had been heading towards the countryside near Kent!).

Appreciate it was a weekend and there were still restrictions. But even on a Saturday morning while Sutcliffe park was busy as you would expect the roads around the apartment blocks were dead. Very few people actually coming and going. And that was like 10am. I could see how 8.30pm would be quiet (ballsy to make a move, but still). Even our residential street in SW london has very little actual foot traffic at any time really. Something I was aware of when Sarah Everard went missing (which is the case that drew me to this site in the first place as her disappearance was hyper-local to me).

 

[Kaykedi]

I live in a block of flats, not in London, but in a quite nice city, and no one mills around outside, at any time really. I wonder what the difference is? what makes somewhere feel like a community where people do that? I suspect where SN lived would have had a bit of a commuter feel to it, people go to work, come home, and just go inside their flats. Astell Road looks like a quiet side street. The flats I live in are on quite a busy road so quite a few people walk along it, so you couldn't really kill someone outside these flats, but it's the people walking past, not the people living in the flats that would deter someone.

In my experience, higher numbers of people mill around outside in the evenings in socially deprived areas than in affluent parts

 

[Smkd]

I think it could be something like a buff for your neck like this Reflective Buff® R-TEXTURE or this NEW: REFLECT360 Neck Gaiter/Warmer - Red

It seems quite small to be a whole scarf or a vest. The only reflective things I can think of are either tools/construction stuff or cycling accessories

 

[Sherlockhames]

In my experience, higher numbers of people mill around outside in the evenings in socially deprived areas than in affluent parts

This area didn’t appear to be socially deprived. Quite the opposite. As has been mentioned, it feels a bit more like a dormitory commuter estate for central london and surrounds. The Berkeley Housing regeneration is all quite smart. And all very new (as evidenced by the fairly manicured Cator Park - complete with lighting on all the main pathways through it)

 

[Beans]

High vis cycling or motorcycle safety vest? Generic H&S or even steward/security PPE? They’re super common. They’re also often very thin and fold up small.

Something like this: Red Hi Visibility Reflective Safety Vest

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hi-Visibility-Reflective-Safety-Vest/dp/B011AQZMZA

 

[Dotta]

I still think it was a bag/fabric rolled around sth - a metal bar?

 

[DFR3217]

Construction site gloves?!

I work in property and have visited sites and been required to wear gloves as part of the official safety wear (along with hard hat and steel toe cap shoes!)

A quick google search brings up loads of red ones, some of which are rubberised (so would be reflective).

He could either have been spotted before or after the attack with such gloves (by that I mean whether the cctv is before or after the murder is not as relevant. As he would have had them both before and after). If he was a construction worker on the site in that estate he would most likely have his own pair (as all workers have their own apparel).

Also, if he was a construction worker/site manger/basically anyone with a need to be at the site daily he may well have been aware of her. But to all intents and purposes is a stranger to her. And might also account for why he is difficult to trace as he would be outside of her circle, but also not known as a regular to the site. So could be why he has been difficult to trace (although surely only a matter of time if this does tally up - also matches with trackie bums and a hoodie in terms of everyday wear).

This seems very plausible to me, except for one thing, to me he looks quite thin, and I know I'm stereotyping here but builders tend to have more muscle than he seems to have in that cctv. His legs are thin. He looks to me either like someone of no fixed abode or someone who has a sort of professional job, though those seem like two rather polarised options, and I can't decide which is more likely.

 

[DFR3217]

Construction site gloves?!

I work in property and have visited sites and been required to wear gloves as part of the official safety wear (along with hard hat and steel toe cap shoes!)

A quick google search brings up loads of red ones, some of which are rubberised (so would be reflective).

He could either have been spotted before or after the attack with such gloves (by that I mean whether the cctv is before or after the murder is not as relevant. As he would have had them both before and after). If he was a construction worker on the site in that estate he would most likely have his own pair (as all workers have their own apparel).

Also, if he was a construction worker/site manger/basically anyone with a need to be at the site daily he may well have been aware of her. But to all intents and purposes is a stranger to her. And might also account for why he is difficult to trace as he would be outside of her circle, but also not known as a regular to the site. So could be why he has been difficult to trace (although surely only a matter of time if this does tally up - also matches with trackie bums and a hoodie in terms of everyday wear).

This seems very plausible to me, except for one thing, to me he looks quite thin, and I know I'm stereotyping here but builders tend to have more muscle than he seems to have in that cctv. His legs are thin. He looks to me either like someone of no fixed abode or someone who has a sort of professional job, though those seem like two rather polarised options, and I can't decide which is more likely.