Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #10

[Cda2021uk]

Hi all, I have a theory. Perhaps the marked police car that passed SE at 21:32 had its siren/ lights on. WC could then have used this to make SE believe that to continue walking was somehow unsafe. If he was in uniform and convincing it’s really hard to predict how you would react.

This doesn’t help with the doors both open though, that is puzzling. Theory two... He hit her at low speed with the car and bundled her injured body in. He may have left his door open for speed, opened the passenger door then grabbed the injured Sarah shoved her in and made his getaway...

The ring doorbell footage is a strange one for me I must say. The properties on that stretch of street are blocks of flats with communal entrances set back from the road.... Do we know if the ring doorbell footage was definitely from right before he kidnapped her?

Finally re her mobile. Could he have had a simple signal blocker? That would knock the phone out until he could destroy it.

 

[Blanche]

Although I do not think she got into the car willingly ..even for a few seconds..the charge kidnap by force does not rule it out.

We would not know at what point the "by force" occurred

I think he either used physical force or the threat of force to get her in because if she got in willingly initially i dont think it would have been this charge IMO

 

[arrogantcat]

That’s a really good reminder of the language used. Thank you. Changes my speculation about possible use of something like a taser in the car. Perhaps if there is doorcam footage (edited to add that am not sure there was door cam footage as haven’t seen it mentioned again) this might show she did try to get help and was pulled away.

my understanding from the JonBenet Ramsay case investigations is that most people hit with a taser scream and shout, too.

 

[MancGuy Uk]

in my mind unmarked police cars are used for undercover crimes or to catch motorists speeding... Hardly think walking alone would require an undercover investigation and I would never expect to be stopped by an undercover police officer for anything other than a serious crime eg drug dealing. Hence why it doesn’t make sense for WC to stop SE under pretense of breaking lockdown rules

IMO they also normally work in pairs and have their radio's switched on and you would hear them radio it in and they have to wear mask's too because of restrictions when they approach you and when they arrest a person they require them to wear one too and they certainly do not arrest a person and put them in the passenger seat

 

[dubmill]

So why did LE keep going back to Agnes Riley park across the street, at least 3 times before doing the big search across the street?

They searched a number of parks and open spaces at the start of the missing person investigation. All such parks were an obvious place to look in the absence of any evidence. It is merely coincidence (at least IMO) that Agnes Riley Gardens is almost directly opposite the location where it later emerged a crime took place.

 

[asyousay]

Found it:

'His charge sheet alleges he "unlawfully and by force took or carried away Sarah Everard against her will".' - it's from the Daily Mirror's account of court proceedings today. The fact it's in quotation marks suggests it's a direct transcription of the charge sheet. As a reminder, UK definition of kidnap is "to take by force or by fraud" - the fact the charge sheet specifically states she was taken "by force" seems to me to rule out that she was taken by fraud - ie, she wasn't coerced or tricked into getting into the car - she was physically forced into it.

This makes sense to me. He's a bulky, muscular guy, and she's a slight woman - he'd have no need to come up with some detailed plan about how to convince her to get in the car - much easier, and quicker, just to physically force her in there. As someone else has pointed out, it'd be over in seconds. As they say, the simplest explanations are usually the correct ones.

To me that fully answers the question of how she got in the car - he put her there.

Link: Police officer accused of abducting and murdering Sarah Everard appears in court

but if she got in the car willingly and then he forcible restrains her then that would also cover this no?

 

[MsBetsy]

Let me know when all this stops going round in circles! And can someone point me to the ignore button please? On the mobile website.

You could be waiting a long time. Conversations tend to circle back again over and over. It happens in every case. Members have been discussing the same scenarios in the Suzanne Morphew thread for eight months. New members are joining the thread ever day in this case.

 

[Merpedy]

but if she got in the car willingly and then he forcible restrains her then that would also cover this no?

Having done some Wikipedia reading the charge being stated narrows down one of the elements of kidnapping which is 'by force or fraud'. Had it said 'or' on the sheet it would have left the avenue open. The language used seems significant

 

[Fluffymarshmallows]

I’ve been lurking for quite a few days now. I’m so sad about this case, it’s hit me harder than others, I think because I’m only a year younger than Sarah was (sad to refer to her in past tense) and I look very similar to her.
And that she was simply walking home...she was excited to see her boyfriend the next day, it’s all too sad for words. I actually cried a little bit when I read her family and friend’s accounts of her.

After reading most of the threads, I have a couple of things I want to add that are just my opinion. Especially in light of the recent info that has been released.

My personal opinion is that WC used some ‘emergency’ excuse such as his car had broken down or he had a child who was ill and needed help (I’m sure I read someone of his description did something similar in Kent to a woman and then performed an indecent act in front of her). I hope it wasn’t as it makes me so sad that he took advantage of Sarah’s obvious kind nature and manner. She may have seen him by his car as she passed and smiled at him, because I can imagine she was that kind of smiley, kind person.

The other idea I was considering is that WC saw Sarah pass and stopped her, showed her his police ID card and asked her what she had been doing (lockdown related) she panicked a bit and said she’d been visiting a friend, as I would, a young woman who has never really been in trouble with the police before. I wonder if he then asked her to sit in the car with him while he filled in some details, she left the front passenger door open, as she felt unsafe with it shut (reason why both doors were open) and was ready to just get up and go...but maybe he leaned over her before she knew what was happening and had shut it. Then drove off with the child locks on. Both of these things are JMO.

I also saw the CCTV image of the car with movement in the front and back and I definitely thought I saw a head come out of the back window. It’s probably not them at all, but I did have a chilling thought that maybe she took her opportunity to scream out the window as they were stopped at the lights and other cars were around. JMO

I keep thinking how terrified she must have been as she sat in the car and released she was being kidnapped. How horrifying. And her phone had either been confiscated by WC or thrown down a drain/smashed up.

These ideas are all my opinion.

 

[Call_me_web_sloth]

This thread has moved so fast.

I just want to say as well


Regardless of different opinions being a women as well. We should be allowed to walk home if we wish without fearing for our safety. That’s the issue here that this simply shouldn’t happen and the amount of money I spend on Uber’s when I’m out late as I don’t want to walk down dark street alone because I automatically think it’s dangerous and I will be attacked.


Hopefully this tragedy can bring some much needed change as we shouldn’t need to live in fear when we want to go out late at night.

Thank you.

I do think quite a lot of women and men are missing the point. I don't think anyone sensible has suggested that all men are to blame for what happened to Sarah, but the truth of the matter is most women have been harassed or sexually assaulted at some point in their lives. Before I got a car I was harassed on a daily basis by men from all types of professions. I remember when I was 12 years old, I was approached by a man in a suit in a station as I waiting for my sister. He asked if I wanted to get a drink with him, when I said no I was under age he still tried to coax me in to going to a restaurant with him. We were in public, he could see I was underage but he was still so brazen. He could visably see I was scared, and when I walked off he followed me for ages watching me. He was really well spoken and carrying a brief case. He knew exactly what he was doing.

By the time I was 15 I had been sexually assaulted. This is just a small part of my story and I realise some women have had much more terrifying and darker experiences.

I get why women are angry, I get why they want to politicise this. We are fed up and tired of having to live our lives in fear. I don't agree with taking our frustrations out on the police in this way, but I think it's undeniable that the police have a lot to answer for when it comes to not doing enough to protect women.

 

[Aus94]

Now that I think about it, another thing that could have occurred is that he deliberately drove into the kerb near her and she stopped to see if he was ok. Could explain the interest in the forensics on the kerb. He could also then be apologetic and offer a lift home. Just MOO

I can see this happening. Stops and apologises, explains he is a cop and offers a ride or when she says no, is forced in.

Would explain the hazard lights on and both doors open.

Sarah Everard’s body found in builder’s bag, court told

 

[MsBetsy]

Agreed. The original organisers stepped back and asked those who'd planned to attend to stay home, light a candle/torch on their doorstep, and had set up fundraisers online. The vigil was taken over by another group, plus the usual rent-a-mobs (Piers Corbyn was spotted, pro-Assange types, the usual).

It should have been a celebration of Sarah's life and a memorial. Instead they turned it into a protest.

 

[Ausie]

Not been on all day and have missed over 80 pages now too much to try and catch up on. I assume people have been back over the CCTV from the website which shows you from the night SE went missing? Has the white Astra which was mentioned today been spotted anywhere and if so any pointers where I can see? Thanks if anybody helps here.

Also I mentioned yesterday I thought the police seemed to be spending a lot more time than you would expect in his house as you wouldn't think SE was ever in the house. After seeing @LeopardLeotard post about the police questions then I think they must have an idea that she did indeed end up in the house at some point. Surely not? Seems like a mad idea unless WC's wife and kids had spent a night or two elsewhere at the time?

 

[JosieJo]

I think he either used physical force or the threat of force to get her in because if she got in willingly initially i dont think it would have been this charge IMO

I disagree as we do not know when the "taken by force started" for example she could have got into the car willingly but the taken by force started later

Not that personally I think she got in willingly

 

[Herat]

Regarding the car being spotted with two front doors open and hazard lights flashing, it sort of throws up in the air my original theory whereby she was "arrested" by WC and placed in the back seat, handcuffed, as would happen if you were arrested. If she sat in the front without her hand being tied it would be impossible to travel far without her interfering with the vehicle- for example pulling the hand break. There’s definitely more to how he convinced her to get in the car.

Hazard lights flashing? Has that been reported by the Met police?

 

[PomPom123]

I'm not sure the East Sussex connection has been fully explored. A certain Dicky Bird tells me there's a French pathologist with some valuable insights....

New appeal over murder of Jennifer Kiely in Eastbourne | Sussex Police ?

 

[sundaaaay]

Maybe he did force her into the car, there was also a lot of forensics around the railing which police may believe she clung on to. I find this really hard to believe in this location, especially because nobody heard any screams. It’s very odd

 

[Miss_French]

ah yes, but who’s committing those crimes against the 60% of male victims? Other men.

The vast, vast majority of all violent crime is committed by men, and we have zero policies, processes, educational programmes or tools designed to actually try and address that fact.

You've said violent crimes against men are committed by other men, then the vast majority of men. It can't be both! And it's actually the latter. Women do commit violent crimes against men; Joanna Dennehy for starters. And let's not forget the outrage at Lavinia Woodward getting a suspended sentence for stabbing her boyfriend.

 

[Satchie]

Found it:

'His charge sheet alleges he "unlawfully and by force took or carried away Sarah Everard against her will".' - it's from the Daily Mirror's account of court proceedings today. The fact it's in quotation marks suggests it's a direct transcription of the charge sheet. As a reminder, UK definition of kidnap is "to take by force or by fraud" - the fact the charge sheet specifically states she was taken "by force" seems to me to rule out that she was taken by fraud - ie, she wasn't coerced or tricked into getting into the car - she was physically forced into it.

This makes sense to me. He's a bulky, muscular guy, and she's a slight woman - he'd have no need to come up with some detailed plan about how to convince her to get in the car - much easier, and quicker, just to physically force her in there. As someone else has pointed out, it'd be over in seconds. As they say, the simplest explanations are usually the correct ones.

To me that fully answers the question of how she got in the car - he put her there.

Link: Police officer accused of abducting and murdering Sarah Everard appears in court

A case in the US, a man had to try persuading several women into his car on the 'undercover cop' ruse, and they reported him to police. And this was in the daytime.

 

[Mrs Marple]

Even if she got in consensually, couldn't he be charged with kidnapping anyway?
I suppose the presumption is that she wouldn't have agreed to be taken anywhere that isn't her home or maybe his house (depending if they knew each other or not)
Or does kidnapping have a strict definition?

It is broken down i.e. kidnap by force, fraud, a couple of other things l don't recall just now. So if stated by force then that would be significant.

 

[Sleepysleuther]

but if she got in the car willingly and then he forcible restrains her then that would also cover this no?

Yes in theory, but where would the evidence of this be, surely only SE and WC could give evidence on this and unless he has confessed, the only evidence LE will have is the cctv footage, pointing to a more likely scenario that the cctv shows she was forced into the car by WC

 

[SveJeMoguce]

As I have proven already you can legally be stopped and questioned if the police believe you are breaking lock down laws. Prove me wrong if you can as you can’t. The rules are quite clear on this matter.

But she wasn't breaking any rules so why would she be stopped?