GUILTY Uk - Sophie Lionnet, 21, Body Found Burned, Wandsworth, London, 20 Sep 2017 *arrests*

[janeh]

It hurts to read every new piece of evidence this case brings ...

I can't wait for it to be over and for those 2 to be behind bars for the longest time possible.

Is it too much to even hope of a whole life sentence? Considering the months of torture, murder, concealing the murder ...

The case is so upsetting isn't it. Young Sophie was treated like a slave and didn't know how to get out of the situation. The cruelty she endured is unbelievable and so sad.

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[Tortoise]

Did anyone else read this? It's awful! They hid poor Sophie s body in the children's bedroom under one of their beds...
I think the case will pick up pace pretty quickly. I can't see there being any defence witnesses apart from those two. He will ( must) go on the stand to try and get a lighter sentence. I have a feeling that she won't be able to take the stand. She will not be mentally able to withstand the cross examination.
Every time the facts of what she did are discussed, she runs out of the court room followed by the appropriate witness and medical staff.

Thanks again Michelle. It's so valuable to have your insight and feedback from the courtroom.

I've been busy on another case where the verdict just came in yesterday so haven't been looking in on my other cases so much, but this is a quieter thread, the media reports from the Old Bailey tend to dry up after opening speeches, unless there is any celebrity sex scandal involved, or until the defendants take the stand. Notice the flurry of reports when Mark Walton gave evidence. So I am very grateful for your updates.

This is one of those instances where I think to hell with the defendant's rights. Make her sit through the evidence and get her on the stand. She made choices about her barbaric behaviour over weeks and months, every day was a chance to say what I am doing is evil. How was she mentally able to inflict that mindless...oh anyway, I get a bit wound up. Answering questions is the least she can do. She is only sorry she was caught, from her conduct of burning the body!

 

[Legally Bland]

Ouissem Medouni's 2nd defence statement has been read out. There's more about his relationship with SK, her MW fantasies and Sophie's life at their home & forced confessions at link.
_______________

‘I have always loved Sabrina and tried to protect her... this led me to make very regrettable choices in my life. I should have done a lot more to protect Sophie and I feel responsible for not ensuring that she was returned home.

‘I should’ve been very much more assertive with Sabrina and accept that had I been, Sophie Lionnet would probably still be alive.’

[...]

‘I was awoken by Sabrina who told me that Sophie wasn’t breathing,’ the statement reads.

‘I immediately got out of bed and went to the bathroom where I saw Sophie lying in the bath. Her eyes were open and she was staring out.’

Medouni says he tried to resuscitate Ms Lionnet, and insisted to Kouider they had to call the police.

‘She begged me not to,’ says Medouni.

‘Sophie didn’t appear to be bleeding although I recall some water coming out of her mouth and a little from her nose. It became clear that she was dead.'

The next morning he locked Ms Lionnet in a suitcase, and he and Kouider talked about what to do with the body, the court heard.

‘I have no real recollection of what we said beyond Sabrina saying “we will burn her”,’ Medouni said.

‘I said that was crazy and horrible. I didn’t know what to do, I was still thinking of calling the police and had even considered burning Sophie in the garden.’

On 20 September the pair started a fire using nail polish remover and the fire service arrived shortly after, the court heard.

‘I admit I told them that I was burning a sheep, although that was obviously ridiculous,’ Medouni says.

‘I wanted to protect Sabrina.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-French-nanny-blames-lover.html#ixzz5Bo0EhISS

 

[michelle230]

Hi Just back from court.
LB - how do you manage to get the transcripts of e.g. the statements??
Tortoise, I`m also confused about the children especially as we are not sure of their ages. I`m wondering if the younger child is MW`s son and the other one`s father is totally out of the picture? I don`t think she had a child with her current partner.
This morning was hours of reading of Sophie`s diaries. Mostly forced/dictated to by SK, but there were others towards the end where she said how much she wanted to go home and she missed her family a lot and needed to be with them.
The afternoon was harrowing. It was all the (voice) recordings of SK and OM`s forceful, relentless attempts to get Sophie to "confess". On..and on..and on..It was in French mainly and there were small screens with translations but difficult to see. It was mainly SK`s interrogation - generally not shouting, at times aggressive and harsh, with lots of YES? Or NO? Yes? Or NO? as she demanded answers. Poor Sophie`s voice could be heard intermittently - as first I thought it was a child`s voice - scared, weak, afraid, and at times almost whimpering. At one point, there was an interruption (on the tape). It was the older child who clearly had been listening/witnessing. SK stopped and asked him what he was doing and to go back to his room.
Before lunch, the Judge, knowing SK`s habit of requesting to be excused if the going got tough, said that he wanted her to be there in court, rather than ask to be excused as he suspected she may do. This was to ensure that she had no quibble with the translation! He also questioned her need for the interpreter as he said it was very expensive.
I think there is time pressure now so the court continued til around 5 pm but I had to leave at the break (around 3.30). I think they wanted to finish hearing all the recordings.
Interesting that she (the "fashion designer") is actually in receipt of disability and housing benefit. Wonder on what grounds she got her disability bearing in mind that she has been photographed at fashion shows etc with a number of Z list celebrities.
He is unemployed! Why is that I wonder?
There were also a couple of extracts read out from SK`s musings this morning. It was strange because one was dated 2014 and then we jumped to 2017 - they were 3 years 3 months apart. In one of them (can`t remember which - head spinning - she wrote that she was an abused child like her son, citing her uncle - her mother`s brother. She wrote that her mother had not believed her, and that she was never "enough for her mother".
I don`t understand that time discrepancy and wonder if she wrote it to aid her case.
On a technical note - given that OM`s plea for manslaughter was rejected, is it still possible nevertheless that the jury could still return this as a verdict? Or will the Judge direct them that it has to be a verdict of guilty of murder or innocent?

 

[michelle230]

"This is one of those instances where I think to hell with the defendant's rights. Make her sit through the evidence and get her on the stand. She made choices about her barbaric behaviour over weeks and months, every day was a chance to say what I am doing is evil. How was she mentally able to inflict that mindless...oh anyway, I get a bit wound up. Answering questions is the least she can do. She is only sorry she was caught, from her conduct of burning the body!"

Tortoise - I agree as I`m sure we all do. However think back to Ben Butler and also Ian Stewart (who refused to come to court for his sentencing.

At the end of the day, the Judge wants the case heard and for it to be finished within the timeframe. I guess it`s too disruptive to keep stopping for her breakdowns, hissy fits and tantrums.
I`m sure it will all be taken inot account in the Judge`s sentencing remarks!!

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks Michelle.

It's up to the CPS if they put forward alternative counts for the jury to consider. I think.

 

[Tortoise]

Who is the judge Michelle?

I notice we have one of the prosecutors and the same defence barrister as we had for Ben Butler.

 

[mrazda71]

If I so much as suspected that my child carer (or in fact anyone involved in their life) were in any way abusing them, I would phone 999 immediately, I might quite possible batter the crap out of them in that instant but, spend weeks, months torturing them still under the same roof as my child??? No.

 

[Alice253]

Thank you Michelle!! I didn't realise you were actually attending court. I really appreciate your accounts, though it must be horrendous to have to sit through. [emoji170][emoji170]

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[michelle230]

Thanks Michelle.

It's up to the CPS if they put forward alternative counts for the jury to consider. I think.

Ah - thanks - was just unsure as a manslaughter charge was already rejected for him but wondering if the jury might go for that to be on the safe side. Mind you, listening to the tapes today was harrowing.

A poor, unworldly girl who fell into the hands of madness personified.

 

[michelle230]

Ah - thanks - was just unsure as a manslaughter charge was already rejected for him but wondering if the jury might go for that to be on the safe side. Mind you, listening to the tapes today was harrowing.

A poor, unworldly girl who fell into the hands of madness personified.

Gosh - just had to google.....it`s Judge Nicholas Hilliard, QC.

And yes - noticed the BB connections!

 

[michelle230]

Thank you Michelle!! I didn't realise you were actually attending court. I really appreciate your accounts, though it must be horrendous to have to sit through. [emoji170][emoji170]

Ask Tortoise lol..once I get into a case everything else grinds to an almighty halt!!

 

[michelle230]

One thing I am trying very hard to do - more than understanding the abusers, is to understand why was it that Sophie, as an (albeit timid, unworldly) adult, could not escape.
I think there are many pieces to this jigsaw. One main one - in my opinion - being that it was such an outlandish, incredulous situation, that in truth, who would believe her?

 

[cybervampira]

One thing I am trying very hard to do - more than understanding the abusers, is to understand why was it that Sophie, as an (albeit timid, unworldly) adult, could not escape.
I think there are many pieces to this jigsaw. One main one - in my opinion - being that it was such an outlandish, incredulous situation, that in truth, who would believe her?

I think there‘s more to it. If I were in such a situation, I wouldn’t ask myself who would believe me. I‘d just get out.

I wonder if there was a cycle of abuse with intermittent reinforcement which could have kept her emotionally attached to her abusers. It‘s very hard to imagine but traumatic bonding is a powerful force.

 

[michelle230]

I think there‘s more to it. If I were in such a situation, I wouldn’t ask myself who would believe me. I‘d just get out.

I wonder if there was a cycle of abuse with intermittent reinforcement which could have kept her emotionally attached to her abusers. It‘s very hard to imagine but traumatic bonding is a powerful force.

I agree about trauma bonding.
However remember she was incredibly timid and had never been away from home before. She asked her parents for money to get home - they did not have enough to send her. She had no friends, no freedom. She was hungry, at times she had no money for credit for her phone. She was watched like a hawk. There were "nanny cams" around the flat. If she involved the police and they went to interview the family, they would have come up with accusations of theft. She had nowhere else to stay. And how could she begin to explain the madness that was being inflicted on her.

She was even dragged to a police station on at least one occasion. The officer interviewed her separately because he had noticed her demeanour. Still she said nothing.
I try to get inside her head - the fear and turmoil she was in. How to articulate it. Remember that whatever we may have done, she was a different person to us with a different mindset. I truly think she was trapped.

 

[mrazda71]

Sophies cousin was in regular contact wirh Sophie and says that on a trip home, Sophie was exhausted and needed the break but felt as though she was abandoning the children.

I think she stayed for the children perhaps as much as anything...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...lems-with-family-she-worked-for-a3642601.html

 

[cybervampira]

I agree about trauma bonding.
However remember she was incredibly timid and had never been away from home before. She asked her parents for money to get home - they did not have enough to send her. She had no friends, no freedom. She was hungry, at times she had no money for credit for her phone. She was watched like a hawk. There were "nanny cams" around the flat. If she involved the police and they went to interview the family, they would have come up with accusations of theft. She had nowhere else to stay. And how could she begin to explain the madness that was being inflicted on her.

She was even dragged to a police station on at least one occasion. The officer interviewed her separately because he had noticed her demeanour. Still she said nothing.
I try to get inside her head - the fear and turmoil she was in. How to articulate it. Remember that whatever we may have done, she was a different person to us with a different mindset. I truly think she was trapped.

Yes, I agree, in that sense she probably was the „perfect victim“ for them. It‘s hard to grasp the dynamics that took place from the outside and how the overall situation might have paralyzed her.

 

[Legally Bland]

Michelle, I just copied the statement from this Mail article. It's now been updated to include some of this afternoon's evidence - interrogation tapes.

It's hard reading (must have been worse hearing it in court).
________________

More than eight and a half hours of Kouider and Medouni interrogating Ms Lionnet was recorded by the couple.

In a tape of one 'interrogation' from 5.32pm on August 8, 2017, which was played to the jury, Medouni and Kouider continually ask Ms Lionnet where Walton's house is.

Medouni says: 'I don't care, I want to know where he took you, you have been there several times.

'You must be really traumatised not to remember.

'Did you go back to his house?'

'Yes,' says Ms Lionnet, adding that she can't remember where the house was.

Medouni says: 'Listen, I want to help you but you are not helping at all, you are making the situation worse.

'Sooner or later the truth will come out, it is better for you to talk now to save time and other problems.'

The interrogation carries on, with Kouider and Medouni trying to pry the location of Walton's home.

Medouni says: 'Stop doing this, we are the ones who are supposed to be in this mood, stop behaving like this.'

'Exactly,' says Kouider.

Medouni says: 'Stop doing this, we are helping you, I'm very patient with you but you shouldn't do this, these are very serious things.'

In another interrogation from the same day at 5.53pm, Medouni tells Ms Lionnet: 'She can't do anything to you, I'm here.'

This is followed by loud smashing noises and Kouider saying 'you are making fun of me', and she says to Ms Lionnet 'don't *advertiser censored**ing lie to me'.

Medouni says the nanny is scared, and Kouider says: 'Scared of what? I have been nice to her?'

Kouider goes on to tell Ms Lionnet that she will be jailed for what she has done, and Medouni tells Kouider to calm down and make some tea.


Kouider says she doesn't want tea, and she tells Ms Lionnet: 'And I said to you, you and me, like we are the same, there is no difference between me and you, okay.

'We did s***, it's okay. But the worst is the one who makes mistakes, I swear to you Sophie, that the universe will pay you back very, very, very, very, very, very dearly.

'Despite what you've done to me, I have no hatred for you. But here, yes, here, yes, because here, you're lying.

'I want the truth and nothing but the truth. You tell me the truth please, and there is no need for you to act crazy. So now you are going to tell me the truth. I am waiting.'

Ms Lionnet's response is so quiet it could not be translated, and Kouider responds: 'And why didn't you tell me that?'

'I was scared,' says Ms Lionnet.

'Scared of what?' says Kouider.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5581429/Man-accused-murdering-French-nanny-blames-lover.html

 

[Legally Bland]

More of the same.
_______________

An alleged killer talked of eating her celebrity former boyfriend “raw” as she interrogated her French au pair for hours, a court has heard.

[...]

Lionnet was threatened with 40 years in jail, with Kouider ranting: “You should be in custody. I’m trying to help you after all and I want you to help me, too.

“I help you, you must help me stop a *advertiser censored**ing paedophile so you tell me where is the house right now. Where is the house. Look at me, Sophie. You have done enough damage already.”

Kouider accused Lionnet of taking her for “a fool”, saying: “If you had told me I would have protected you and would have eaten him raw in front of you.”

In one recording made just before midnight on 11 September, Medouni likened Lionnet to a French person who gave up Jews to the Nazis.

Kouider went on to say Lionnet had a dream Walton would make her a star, as she questioned her about an alleged indecent assault in a public toilet.

She told her: “He did it to you and you enjoyed it.”

Lionnet whispered that he had given her a “massage”, but Kouider carried on: “Like what he did to me, hun. You should start screaming ... You could have said ‘leave me alone’.”

The defendant continued to rant about how Walton had promised to make Lionnet a star.

She said: “He sold you a dream and you believed it.”

Lionnet rarely spoke and her replies to the couple’s relentless questioning were barely audible.

Jurors have heard that none of the allegations against Walton are true.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ked-eating-raw-boyzone-mark-walton-court-told

 

[janeh]

More of the same.
_______________

An alleged killer talked of eating her celebrity former boyfriend “raw” as she interrogated her French au pair for hours, a court has heard.

[...]

Lionnet was threatened with 40 years in jail, with Kouider ranting: “You should be in custody. I’m trying to help you after all and I want you to help me, too.

“I help you, you must help me stop a *advertiser censored**ing paedophile so you tell me where is the house right now. Where is the house. Look at me, Sophie. You have done enough damage already.”

Kouider accused Lionnet of taking her for “a fool”, saying: “If you had told me I would have protected you and would have eaten him raw in front of you.”

In one recording made just before midnight on 11 September, Medouni likened Lionnet to a French person who gave up Jews to the Nazis.

Kouider went on to say Lionnet had a dream Walton would make her a star, as she questioned her about an alleged indecent assault in a public toilet.

She told her: “He did it to you and you enjoyed it.”

Lionnet whispered that he had given her a “massage”, but Kouider carried on: “Like what he did to me, hun. You should start screaming ... You could have said ‘leave me alone’.”

The defendant continued to rant about how Walton had promised to make Lionnet a star.

She said: “He sold you a dream and you believed it.”

Lionnet rarely spoke and her replies to the couple’s relentless questioning were barely audible.

Jurors have heard that none of the allegations against Walton are true.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ked-eating-raw-boyzone-mark-walton-court-told

Thank you for the update. The more I read about this woman, the more angry I become. She is an evil being.

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