Found Deceased UK - Susan McLean, 61, U.S. tourist, Aberfeldy, Scotland, 17 May 2015

[ZaZara]

With all due respect to the wonderfull words of support expressed, I can find no external source confirming that Susan was suffering from a mental illness. Depression may play a role in suicide, however it is not the only risk factor. There are other risk factors, depending on the situation. And IMHO that should be respected and not turned around in the sense that because there was a suicide, depression or mental illness must have been the cause.

 

[Katerz]

As someone who has thought about suicide and did self harm.. I can imagine why. And I am glad it came out because awareness needs to be put out there.


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[ZaZara]

With all due respect to the wonderfull words of support expressed, I can find no external source confirming that Susan was suffering from a mental illness. Depression may play a role in suicide, however it is not the only risk factor. There are other risk factors, depending on the situation. And IMHO that should be respected and not turned around in the sense that because there was a suicide, depression or mental illness must have been the cause.

Hi Katerz,

It was not my intention to put the stigma back on depression or those suffering from it.
My point was that we must be cautious in labelling Susan's condition.

Depression is not a one way street, or even a street. So many people, family and friends have mentioned Susan's love of horses and her joy in helping others. If (IF!) indeed she was depressed to a certain degree, she must have found support, strength and joy in friends and horses. As many others, depressed or non-depressed, do.

These two important anchors were absent during the holiday.

All we know is that the family went sightseeing for the day.
There was a disagreement around dinner.
Susan left for a walk 'to clear her head'. This was 'something she did more often'.
When she did not return after a few hours, the family raised the alarm.

Because she was away, on a different continent, she could not turn to her two major support groups, the friends and horses. We do not know if this was of significance, but it is a fact that they were not there.

IMHO even with depression, circumstances and coincidence play a big, big role. As they do without depression.

 

[pinklilies]

ZaZara, you've said the same as the thoughts I've had for some time. Susan did not have her animals, her dogs and her horses with her in Scotland. We can all have great family and friends in our life but quite often, particularly if we are animal lovers, the ones that give us the most comfort and understand and accept us the best, are our animals, our pets. It's just my opinion of course, but I feel had Susan been at home, whatever was bothering her that night, would not have affected her so deeply as she would have gone to those animals and they would have been so pleased to see her and she would have found solace in that. Anyone who is not an animal lover will not understand this and this is no disrespect to her loved ones, and again, it is just my opinion. But our animals give us something people cannot, no matter how much those people love us.

 

[Katerz]

Hi Katerz,

It was not my intention to put the stigma back on depression or those suffering from it.
My point was that we must be cautious in labelling Susan's condition.

Depression is not a one way street, or even a street. So many people, family and friends have mentioned Susan's love of horses and her joy in helping others. If (IF!) indeed she was depressed to a certain degree, she must have found support, strength and joy in friends and horses. As many others, depressed or non-depressed, do.

These two important anchors were absent during the holiday.

All we know is that the family went sightseeing for the day.
There was a disagreement around dinner.
Susan left for a walk 'to clear her head'. This was 'something she did more often'.
When she did not return after a few hours, the family raised the alarm.

Because she was away, on a different continent, she could not turn to her two major support groups, the friends and horses. We do not know if this was of significance, but it is a fact that they were not there.

IMHO even with depression, circumstances and coincidence play a big, big role. As they do without depression.

This is true however we don't know what happens behind closed doors especially at home. For all we know, it was just building up and she finally found the right opportunity to escape so to speak. We just don't know. One thing I've learned is that people who seem the most happy on the outside are the ones who are hurting the most on the inside. We don't know her every day life. We don't know her marriage. All we know is there was an argument after dinner one night in Scotland and it looks like Susan was upset about something enough to take matters into her own hands. Do we judge her for that? NO. We simply try to provide support for the ones who have been affected by it.

All MOO and all that jazz.


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[Jmoose]

ZaZara, you've said the same as the thoughts I've had for some time. Susan did not have her animals, her dogs and her horses with her in Scotland. We can all have great family and friends in our life but quite often, particularly if we are animal lovers, the ones that give us the most comfort and understand and accept us the best, are our animals, our pets. It's just my opinion of course, but I feel had Susan been at home, whatever was bothering her that night, would not have affected her so deeply as she would have gone to those animals and they would have been so pleased to see her and she would have found solace in that. Anyone who is not an animal lover will not understand this and this is no disrespect to her loved ones, and again, it is just my opinion. But our animals give us something people cannot, no matter how much those people love us.

I wholeheartedly agree with what you've said here-I am also a sufferer of clinical depression; and actually, nothing has helped me cope more than the dogs I love. There is something about the love and acceptance that you get from your animals, that is different from what is present in even the most loving families. It is so distressing to hear about Susan's apparent suicide-that she could have been in such a state (whether depressed or not), that this is what she felt compelled to do. My mother's sister committed suicide after several unsuccessful attempts, and our family has never gotten over it.

 

[mbmc]

ZaZara with respect, I do understand what you are saying, you question that Susan was suffering depression and that it should not be assumed that she was.

I agree with you that Susan "must have found support, strength and joy in friends and horses, as many other depressed or non-depressed, do."....You go on to say that two important anchors were absent in during the holiday. By saying this you imply that Susan would have needed these anchors in times of need, well yes we all need comfort but they are not the main stay of our life, if we are not depressed we can manage without these for a while?

I had clinical depression and was treated at hospital for two years, suicide was my friend, it kept me going, this may sound extreme but it was there as my get out clause, tomorrow, or the next day, and so on it went ....as did I, but I know when the depression takes over completely it is not ever a one off circumstance .....we have got to that point because we cannot cope any longer, with me it is day by day.

I am not in any way suggesting this was the case with Susan, just me.

I will apologise now if any of this offends, but we are human and vulnerable.

Susan sounds like the friend we all wish we had, but all to often they will hide their own demons to care for and love others.

We may not all see eye to eye on this but the fact that we are discussing it is good?

 

[gregjrichards]

I wholeheartedly agree with what you've said here-I am also a sufferer of clinical depression; and actually, nothing has helped me cope more than the dogs I love. There is something about the love and acceptance that you get from your animals, that is different from what is present in even the most loving families. It is so distressing to hear about Susan's apparent suicide-that she could have been in such a state (whether depressed or not), that this is what she felt compelled to do. My mother's sister committed suicide after several unsuccessful attempts, and our family has never gotten over it.

So sorry to hear many of you suffer or have suffered severe depression. As some of you know I have suffered severe depression that has left me suicidal due to what happened to me and it is a daily battle. I had negligent surgery that left me disabled and in constant pain aged 22 nine years ago. My cat is a great comfort to me and never leaves my side. I'm very sorry about Susan she continues to be in my prayers.

 

[Lumberjill]

Many of you have asked about hippy hippy, as have I. She sent an email today, and she's doing fine, busy with company from out of the area. Sounding very well.

 

[mbmc]

From the Find Susan McLean FB

"Susan’s family is planning a memorial for Susan at the Unitarian Church in Groton, MA at 11 AM, 10 October, 2015. Friends are also having a memorial trail ride on 31 October at a PA park. Also Susan's Celebration of her life on 17 October at 11 AM at our farm, 1446 Lutztown Rd, Boiling Springs, PA 17007"


I will be thinking of you Susan :rose:

 

[Lumberjill]

Today is Suicide Awareness Day.

 

[mbmc]

 

[Lumberjill]

Some have asked me why Susan wasn't found by the police. She was 25-30 feet into the forest from the trails on either side of her. This is a pic (taken 2 weeks after she was found) of the various flowers and memorials placed where we found Susan in the very center of the pic. Some branches were removed from the place where I stood to take the pic but there were no branches to remove if entering from the shady north side of the forest. My point is... you can clearly see that the forest wasn't terribly dense, there was no "dense undergrowth where she was found" (says Supt. Graeme Murdoch), and in fact the flowers are visible as Susan would have been. Why did the police or their cadaver dogs not find her?

 

[Katerz]

Some have asked me why Susan wasn't found by the police. She was 25-30 feet into the forest from the trails on either side of her. This is a pic (taken 2 weeks after she was found) of the various flowers and memorials placed where we found Susan in the very center of the pic. Some branches were removed from the place where I stood to take the pic but there were no branches to remove if entering from the shady north side of the forest. My point is... you can clearly see that the forest wasn't terribly dense, there was no "dense undergrowth where she was found" (says Supt. Graeme Murdoch), and in fact the flowers are visible as Susan would have been. Why did the police or their cadaver dogs not find her?

Wow I am baffled that they didn't find her.. You can clearly see the white thing in the center of the pic.. I just.. Wow. How are you doing Lorna? I've been thinking of you and hippy hippy.


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[ZaZara]

Wow I am baffled that they didn't find her.. You can clearly see the white thing in the center of the pic.. I just.. Wow. How are you doing Lorna? I've been thinking of you and hippy hippy.


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I agree 100% with Katerz in bafflement!

And I'd like to hear how Lorna and hippy hippy are doing too. HH, I've been thinking of you a lot. :seeya:

 

[gregjrichards]

Wow I am baffled that they didn't find her.. You can clearly see the white thing in the center of the pic.. I just.. Wow. How are you doing Lorna? I've been thinking of you and hippy hippy.


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Me too the police really dropped the ball.

I hope Lorna/Lumberjill and Hippy Hippy are doing ok.

 

[Lumberjill]

I'm hoping to hear how hippy hippy is doing. I'm doing pretty well. I'll be in Kenya and will miss both of Susan's celebrations of life, Oct 10 in MA and 17 in PA. I had a very meaningful memorial service with friends at Susan's site before I left Scotland. L/L

 

[Lumberjill]

I've been doing some research related to hypothermia. Normal body temp is 37.5 degrees C.
"One method of estimating the time of death is to measure body temperature. The normal equation for this is:

• 37.5oC - 1.5 oC

This formula equates to the body temperature (37.5oC), which loses 1.5 oC per hour until the temperature of the body is that of the environment around it; known as the ambient temperature. This ambient temperature - depending on how low it is - may take minutes or hours to be reached and this is a good indicator as to how long a body has been in situ. Additionally it is worth noting that a body's temperature will drop much more slowly if the body has been exposed to extreme cold; such as being left outdoors,..." according to http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/estimating-the-time-of-death.html But when a person has been drinking, the cold outdoors effect of peripheral blood vessel contraction will be negated by the vessel dilation caused by alcohol.
And a person loses consciousness at 28 degrees C. So typically, a person would go from normal to unconscious in about 6 hours if due to hypothermia. Continuing, a person in a situation such as Susan's with alcohol and drugs of some unknown type on board, could have died of alcohol/drug intoxication or of hypothermia secondary to that intoxication. Her raincoat was spread out on the pine needles, a couple of feet from her body. The surroundings seemed to be dry though we'd had days of rain before finding her. This leads me to think that she was well out of the rain the night she passed. Knowing the info on the Rx label would be helpful in ascertaining facts in this case.

 

[mbmc]

I had to google "Rx label", so it would be helpful to know what drug Susan had taken to know whether she had she had succumbed to the drugs and alcohol before hypothermia set in?

 

[Lumberjill]

The label was face-down, so until Susan's family tells us, we won't know. The police were unwilling to tell me anything unless they'd told equivet first and cleared it with him. equivet said a few weeks back that he didn't know what it was. Not sure why he hasn't asked Police Scotland.