UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

[Terryb808]

Looking at this without any bias at all, JC has had over 30 year in which to reform is character.

The allegations made by the police never got to court and the CPS didn’t feel the police had a case strong enough to get a conviction.

On the basis that you are innocent until proven guilty, JC is an innocent man at this point.

Again being fair to him those who have monitored him over the last 30 plus years are in theory in the best placed to judge if he still remains a threat to society.

IMO a failed attempt to convict JC for the disappearance of SJL 36 years ago should not be used to influence a parole board.

 

[Terryb808]

Looking at this without any bias at all, JC has had over 30 year in which to reform is character.

The allegations made by the police never got to court and the CPS didn’t feel the police had a case strong enough to get a conviction.

On the basis that you are innocent until proven guilty, JC is an innocent man at this point.

Again being fair to him those who have monitored him over the last 30 plus years are in theory in the best placed to judge if he still remains a threat to society.

IMO a failed attempt to convict JC for the disappearance of SJL 36 years ago should not be used to influence a parole board.

Additionally, it was unprecedented for the police name a suspect in the public domain that they had absolutely no chance of convicting.

On face value it looks like sour grapes, against the CPS for not taking it to court.

All that’s happened now is that even if the police were right, they wouldn’t get a conviction because JC would never be able to get a fair trial.

Trying to influence a parole board looks like another bit of sour grapes.

 

[RichardKimble]

Is/was there a parole hearing ? perhaps reporting is not allowed until a decision is reached its not like a court hearing is it.

 

[WestLondoner]

AIUI they're not held in public. There are guidelines that say people can be invited but there are exclusions (other cons, for example) and there has to be a reason why they are there.

Agree if it's none of the four possibilities, and none is well supported, we have to start to consider a fifth.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I suspect when it comes to the aspect of known crimes or risky behaviours that have not been convicted in court, in terms of parole, that would surely refer to conduct inside prison such as violence, drug taking, making threats to people on the outside, or general worrisome conduct that if the person were be released into the public, could create new offending. I can't imagine it refers to outside allegations of historic crimes that haven't even got past the CPS. JMO MOO I'm not a legal expert.

 

[Cluesleuth]

Based on your analysis above the only real explanation is that she was abducted when she reached her car in Whittingstall Road.
As I’ve said before, if WJ is right about the time SJL’s car appears in Stevenage Road, there has to be a least two perpetrators.

In this scenario it accounts for SJL not being seen in any of the locations she may have been going.

Perhaps she got into a car with someone after leaving the Sturgis office.

Theres something not quite right about her leaving the office.

JMO

 

[Terryb808]

Perhaps she got into a car with someone after leaving the Sturgis office.

Theres something not quite right about her leaving the office.

JMO

This could possibly fit with the BW sighting at approximately 2.45pm, SJL gave that person a lift from which she never returned.

In this narrative WJ is wrong and the general view that SJL’s car appeared in Stevenage Road between 3.00 & 5.00pm then comes into play.

I accept that the police located her car at 10.03pm, but the garage owner returned at 5.15pm and I can’t see him mis-identifying SJL’s car.

So she left the office at approximately 12.40pm and her car appeared in Stevenage Road anytime between 12.45 & 5.00pm.

IMO the later her car appears, the more difficult it is to theorise on where she went.

 

[Cluesleuth]

This could possibly fit with the BW sighting at approximately 2.45pm, SJL gave that person a lift from which she never returned.

In this narrative WJ is wrong and the general view that SJL’s car appeared in Stevenage Road between 3.00 & 5.00pm then comes into play.

I accept that the police located her car at 10.03pm, but the garage owner returned at 5.15pm and I can’t see him mis-identifying SJL’s car.

So she left the office at approximately 12.40pm and her car appeared in Stevenage Road anytime between 12.45 & 5.00pm.

IMO the later her car appears, the more difficult it is to theorise on where she went.

I wouldnt dismiss the 12.40pm sighting by WJ, but I wouldnt use that time as a benchmark for the time the car it appeared on Stevenage road.
WJ told DV and DL that she hadnt been spending as much time in the kitchen as usual so the sighting of the car as she returned to the house may be correct but its possible it had arrived there earlier. What I would have liked to have known was when was the last time before leaving the house for the dog walk she was in the kitchen and looked out of the window, and what she saw if anything on doing this.

I would have liked more clarity regarding schoolboy's report that the car was parked on Stevenage rd at 12.00 and wether this earlier time coincided with a viewing or errand done by someone on or nearby Stevenage rd that day.

SJL was either on Stevenage rd that day or nowhere near it regardless of the car being there.

JMO

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Additionally, it was unprecedented for the police name a suspect in the public domain that they had absolutely no chance of convicting.

On face value it looks like sour grapes, against the CPS for not taking it to court.

All that’s happened now is that even if the police were right, they wouldn’t get a conviction because JC would never be able to get a fair trial.

Trying to influence a parole board looks like another bit of sour grapes.

Not so!

The police intermittently have the need to name and provide the photo of a suspect they are seeking for a serious crime who is subsequently arrested, charged and convicted for the offence.

The Met Police said JC was the only identified suspect after a comprehensive re-investigation and review. What they DIDN'T say is that he abducted/killed SJL.

There is a chasm of difference between their pronouncement and denying someone the possibility of a fair trial.

 

[Terryb808]

I wouldnt dismiss the 12.40pm sighting by WJ, but I wouldnt use that time as a benchmark for the time the car it appeared on Stevenage road.
WJ told DV and DL that she hadnt been spending as much time in the kitchen as usual so the sighting of the car as she returned to the house may be correct but its possible it had arrived there earlier. What I would have liked to have known was when was the last time before leaving the house for the dog walk she was in the kitchen and looked out of the window, and what she saw if anything on doing this.

I would have liked more clarity regarding schoolboy's report that the car was parked on Stevenage rd at 12.00 and wether this earlier time coincided with a viewing or errand done by someone on or nearby Stevenage rd that day.

SJL was either on Stevenage rd that day or nowhere near it regardless of the car being there.

JMO

After DV’s book and the way WJ was made to look like an unreliable witness she’s not going to talk to anyone else.

This is a shame because there are people who’s only are only interested in the truth and don’t have an agenda.

If you stand opposite WJ’s house where she would have on her return from the dog walk, any car parked where SJL’s was discovered is approximately 2 metres away.

Making a mistake as to what type and colour it was would be difficult if (as she said) you have a general interest in cars.

IMO the chance’s of one white car being replaced coincidentally with another and parked in the same way are remote.

 

[asyousay]

I still do not believe for one second that car reached Stevenage Road before 3pm as a lot more people would if reported seeing it that afternoon. Only one person claims to have seen it as before 1pm and the timeline certainly doesn’t fit Suzy going there as soon as she left the office.


moooooo

 

[Cluesleuth]

I still do not believe for one second that car reached Stevenage Road before 3pm as a lot more people would if reported seeing it that afternoon. Only one person claims to have seen it as before 1pm and the timeline certainly doesn’t fit Suzy going there as soon as she left the office.


moooooo

AS book says there were 2 reports of a sighting before 1.00pm
One was the schoolboy sighting at 12.00 the other WJ at 12.40pm

 

[asyousay]

AS book says there were 2 reports of a sighting before 1.00pm
One was the schoolboy sighting at 12.00 the other WJ at 12.40pm

Had she left the office by 12pm?

 

[Cluesleuth]

Had she left the office by 12pm?

Could her car been used by another member of staff to do a viewing or errand on or near Stevenage rd around 12.00?
JMO

 

[asyousay]

Had her car been used by another member of staff to do a viewing or errand on or near Stevenage rd around 12.00?

Somebody else has definitely used it that morning but I don’t think we know where that appointment was.

 

[Eastend Eagle]

Perhaps she got into a car with someone after leaving the Sturgis office.

Theres something not quite right about her leaving the office.

JMO

The last for certain sighting of Suzy Lamplugh was when she left the Sturgis office that lunchtime. For many years we've been told by the police that she went to collect her car from Whittingstall Road. The office junior is the last known person to have driven Suzy's car so presumably it was him who told the police that her car was parked on Whittingstall. Astonishingly, after more than 35 years, the office junior has now claimed he told Suzy her car was in fact parked in Radipole Road. But what if her car was parked in neither of these roads, certainly it couldn't have been parked in both. What if Suzy was in fact told that her car was parked in Rostrevor Mews, a narrow road just around the corner from Sturgis. This narrow road ran behind the Crocodile Tears and would surely have been a far better place to abduct someone from unwitnessed than either of the wider Whittingstall or Radipole Roads.

AIUI they're not held in public. There are guidelines that say people can be invited but there are exclusions (other cons, for example) and there has to be a reason why they are there.

Agree if it's none of the four possibilities, and none is well supported, we have to start to consider a fifth.

All claimed sightings of Suzy after she left the office, in Shorrolds Road and around Stevenage Road, are somewhat spurious. There are no claimed sightings of her for that day near to the Prince of Wales pub or any evidence she went home that lunchtime.

Perhaps the police work in this case was not as poor as some have asserted and they were simply misdirected by people they never seriously considered as suspects but only witnesses.
If the diary entry of the client with the dubious name had never existed, if Suzy's car had not been found later that day in Stevenage Road and if there had never been suspicions around the Prince of Wales pub, where would the police have begun the search for Suzy Lamplugh? Surely it would have been in the immediate vicinity of Sturgis, the last place she was known to have definitely been sighted. Did they ever investigate around Rostrevor Mews, could she have been abducted here and her car parked in Stevenage Road to throw police off the true scent?

 

[Terryb808]

The last for certain sighting of Suzy Lamplugh was when she left the Sturgis office that lunchtime. For many years we've been told by the police that she went to collect her car from Whittingstall Road. The office junior is the last known person to have driven Suzy's car so presumably it was him who told the police that her car was parked on Whittingstall. Astonishingly, after more than 35 years, the office junior has now claimed he told Suzy her car was in fact parked in Radipole Road. But what if her car was parked in neither of these roads, certainly it couldn't have been parked in both. What if Suzy was in fact told that her car was parked in Rostrevor Mews, a narrow road just around the corner from Sturgis. This narrow road ran behind the Crocodile Tears and would surely have been a far better place to abduct someone from unwitnessed than either of the wider Whittingstall or Radipole Roads.



All claimed sightings of Suzy after she left the office, in Shorrolds Road and around Stevenage Road, are somewhat spurious. There are no claimed sightings of her for that day near to the Prince of Wales pub or any evidence she went home that lunchtime.

Perhaps the police work in this case was not as poor as some have asserted and they were simply misdirected by people they never seriously considered as suspects but only witnesses.
If the diary entry of the client with the dubious name had never existed, if Suzy's car had not been found later that day in Stevenage Road and if there had never been suspicions around the Prince of Wales pub, where would the police have begun the search for Suzy Lamplugh? Surely it would have been in the immediate vicinity of Sturgis, the last place she was known to have definitely been sighted. Did they ever investigate around Rostrevor Mews, could she have been abducted here and her car parked in Stevenage Road to throw police off the true scent?

Some excellent logic, with HR from Shorrolds Road & the final location in Stevenage Road for her car we have absolutely no idea where SJL went.

If she was abducted before she could drive away I can’t honestly see why you’d need to move her car.

The perpetrator would have SJL, he’d be fairly certain that no one witnessed it, so why move her car.

 

[Terryb808]

Some excellent logic, with HR from Shorrolds Road & the final location in Stevenage Road for her car we have absolutely no idea where SJL went.

If she was abducted before she could drive away I can’t honestly see why you’d need to move her car.

The perpetrator would have SJL, he’d be fairly certain that no one witnessed it, so why move her car.

Should read without HR

 

[Cluesleuth]

The last for certain sighting of Suzy Lamplugh was when she left the Sturgis office that lunchtime. For many years we've been told by the police that she went to collect her car from Whittingstall Road. The office junior is the last known person to have driven Suzy's car so presumably it was him who told the police that her car was parked on Whittingstall. Astonishingly, after more than 35 years, the office junior has now claimed he told Suzy her car was in fact parked in Radipole Road. But what if her car was parked in neither of these roads, certainly it couldn't have been parked in both. What if Suzy was in fact told that her car was parked in Rostrevor Mews, a narrow road just around the corner from Sturgis. This narrow road ran behind the Crocodile Tears and would surely have been a far better place to abduct someone from unwitnessed than either of the wider Whittingstall or Radipole Roads.



All claimed sightings of Suzy after she left the office, in Shorrolds Road and around Stevenage Road, are somewhat spurious. There are no claimed sightings of her for that day near to the Prince of Wales pub or any evidence she went home that lunchtime.

Perhaps the police work in this case was not as poor as some have asserted and they were simply misdirected by people they never seriously considered as suspects but only witnesses.
If the diary entry of the client with the dubious name had never existed, if Suzy's car had not been found later that day in Stevenage Road and if there had never been suspicions around the Prince of Wales pub, where would the police have begun the search for Suzy Lamplugh? Surely it would have been in the immediate vicinity of Sturgis, the last place she was known to have definitely been sighted. Did they ever investigate around Rostrevor Mews, could she have been abducted here and her car parked in Stevenage Road to throw police off the true scent?

Have you factored in that a member of staff left the office just after 12.00 for a viewing.
As book mentions this on the page 28
Unfortunately he does not give us the details of where the viewing was,how long it took or which vehicle was used.

Could the reason why why the car was now parked Radipole Rd and not Whittingstall Rd where the office junior JC had parked it on his return from the 9.45am viewing to a property in Foskett Rd because it had possibly been used by other Sturgis staff for viewings that morning?

Just my opinions

 

[Eastend Eagle]

Some excellent logic, with HR from Shorrolds Road & the final location in Stevenage Road for her car we have absolutely no idea where SJL went.

If she was abducted before she could drive away I can’t honestly see why you’d need to move her car.

The perpetrator would have SJL, he’d be fairly certain that no one witnessed it, so why move her car.

What if Suzy's car had been parked in none of Whittingstall Road, Radipole Road or Rostrevor Mews, but after being taken out earlier that morning had been ferreted away somewhere near to where it was found in the evening.
If Suzy had been told that her car was parked in Rostrevor Mews, she'd actually be more abductable if her car wasn't parked there and she was taken while lostly looking for it. Maybe she could have been abducted into a property backing on to Rostrevor Mews with the peculiar Shorrolds Road diary entry, the subsequent discovery of her car in Stevenage Road and the strange events of her lost belongings meaning that the police never gave truly serious consideration to the possibility of her being abducted in the near vicinity of Sturgis.

JMO