UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

[Terryb808]

What if Suzy's car had been parked in none of Whittingstall Road, Radipole Road or Rostrevor Mews, but after being taken out earlier that morning had been ferreted away somewhere near to where it was found in the evening.
If Suzy had been told that her car was parked in Rostrevor Mews, she'd actually be more abductable if her car wasn't parked there and she was taken while lostly looking for it. Maybe she could have been abducted into a property backing on to Rostrevor Mews with the peculiar Shorrolds Road diary entry, the subsequent discovery of her car in Stevenage Road and the strange events of her lost belongings meaning that the police never gave truly serious consideration to the possibility of her being abducted in the near vicinity of Sturgis.

JMO

I take your point, it would mean someone within the Sturgis office was complicit with SJL’s disappearance.
Cluesleuth has been taking a look at this possibility, maybe there’s something to tell here?

 

[WestLondoner]

This is a great line of thinking. The last reliable sighting of SJL was when she left the office so anywhere else she went is conjecture.

 

[RichardKimble]

What if Suzy's car had been parked in none of Whittingstall Road, Radipole Road or Rostrevor Mews, but after being taken out earlier that morning had been ferreted away somewhere near to where it was found in the evening.
If Suzy had been told that her car was parked in Rostrevor Mews, she'd actually be more abductable if her car wasn't parked there and she was taken while lostly looking for it. Maybe she could have been abducted into a property backing on to Rostrevor Mews with the peculiar Shorrolds Road diary entry, the subsequent discovery of her car in Stevenage Road and the strange events of her lost belongings meaning that the police never gave truly serious consideration to the possibility of her being abducted in the near vicinity of Sturgis.

JMO

I take your point, it would mean someone within the Sturgis office was complicit with SJL’s disappearance.
Cluesleuth has been taking a look at this possibility, maybe there’s something to tell here?

Does that not lend itself to a targeted abduction rather than a random one including or excluding JC in it.

 

[Terryb808]

Does that not lend itself to a targeted abduction rather than a random one including or excluding JC in it.

Yes, we'd need to find the motive this, which the police didn't find at the time because they were distracted by the Mr Kipper narrative.

 

[Crusader21]

Yes, we'd need to find the motive this, which the police didn't find at the time because they were distracted by the Mr Kipper narrative.

A motive for a targeted abduction, which takes place on a Monday lunchtime in a busy residential area?

 

[WestLondoner]

A motive for a targeted abduction, which takes place on a Monday lunchtime in a busy residential area?

In a way this both points to and away from Cannan. He's stupid enough to try such a thing, but also too stupid to get away with it

 

[RichardKimble]

A motive for a targeted abduction, which takes place on a Monday lunchtime in a busy residential area?

But not busy enough for any one to actually see the alleged abduction.

 

[WestLondoner]

Yes, which loops you back round to the supposition that she must have gone into a building and never come out again. That building has never been identified.

Cannan must have been a busy boy that July. As well as holding down a job humping props about and observing the pre-release hostel curfew, he also acquired a smart suit, a sun tan to hide the prison pallor, two cars, and a hideaway, all on prison time and prison trusty money. He then got rid of the cars, hideaway and body without one single person noticing (well, until fourteen years later obviously).

Or of course he didn't.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Yes, we'd need to find the motive this, which the police didn't find at the time because they were distracted by the Mr Kipper narrative.

Kipper was only one line of enquiry.

The police looked forensically into SJL's life, including personal and professional associations, to identify all possible reasons for her disappearance.

That some believe the investigation was Kipper and nothing else, based only on the media reporting, demonstrates a huge knowledge gap in how an investigation was/is conducted.

I would urge a greater understanding of how the investigation process works. There is good material out there that will provide this insight.

 

[RichardKimble]

Kipper was only one line of enquiry.

The police looked forensically into SJL's life, including personal and professional associations, to identify all possible reasons for her disappearance.

That some believe the investigation was Kipper and nothing else, based only on the media reporting, demonstrates a huge knowledge gap in how an investigation was/is conducted.

I would urge a greater understanding of how the investigation process works. There is good material out there that will provide this insight.

Has Mr Kipper been identified and ruled out ?

 

[WestLondoner]

Has Mr Kipper been identified and ruled out ?

Police are still hunting this man.

They have searched ole houses with a green door, but no dice.

 

[Crusader21]

Police are still hunting this man.

It's the season, love and understanding .... Merry Christmas Everyone!

 

[WestLondoner]

The significance of SJL's car being sighted as early as 12.40 is that if this is true, her car must have gone straight to Stevenage Road, whether driven by her or someone else. If so, this debunks the HR sighting at 37SR of a woman whom the police decided was SJL. If SJL was at 37SR at 1pm, her car can't have been left 1.3 miles away ten minutes previously. WJ's timing lined checkably up with the time she said she was at the bank so there seems no room for error about when she saw the car she saw. The room for error is if it was the same car then as the police found at 10pm.

The schoolboy's subsequently-reported sighting of the car at 12 noon thus has to be thought about carefully. If this sighting is accurate, then the car WJ saw was there much sooner than WJ noticed it, and cannot have been SJL's. We know this because before SJL left, she asked a colleague where her car was parked. If her car had been borrowed for a viewing and was still a mile away, this question would have been met with silence, because the borrower would still be out of the office - with her car.

Hence the schoolboy and WJ sightings are most likely of a similar car in the same place. That's if the schoolboy sighting is even real. I can't think why he'd notice such an unremarkable car. It seems likelier that he just wanted to get involved in the investigation and perhaps have his picture in the paper.

This then allows the BW sighting to be accurate. She could have seen SJL in her car at 2.30 in the FPR because it had not been outside 123SR for 2 hours at that point.

If you take those three 'placings' of SJL - outside 37SR, outside 123SR, and in the FPR - they can't all be right. In fact, no more than two of them can be. 37SR and BW could both be right. But WJ and 37SR can't both be right, nor can WJ and BW be.

It is thus very odd that the police dismissed BW, whose sighting was consistent with a supposed abduction from 37SR at 1pm, yet accepted WJ, whose sighting emphatically wasn't. Alongside speculatively deciding that SJL was the woman seen outside 37SR, the police also accepted an account from WJ that proved SJL could not have been that woman.

 

[Crusader21]

Good points WL, I suppose it comes down (as you say), to which witness statements the police have accepted.

I do think huge questions today must be placed upon what Harry Riglin actually saw. Harry's nephew is adamant that Harry DID NOT positively ID Suzy Lamplugh. Yet he may well have witnessed a female and indeed a couple at 37SR.

I think it may have been someone else that lunchtime, but whom?

Other employees from Sturgis? Prospective house buyers? A female / male couple looking for SL?

Also HR stated he heard a door bang, I'd be pretty certain he knew the sound of the next door closing. So this couple had a key to 37SR? ...

 

[WestLondoner]

I wish I could recall where it was said that the police fingerprinted 37SR and found no sign SJL had been inside. If that is true, it further undermines their own assumption that HR saw / heard SJL leaving; if she never went inside, this cannot be true. I have certainly never heard any suggestion that she is known to have gone inside and that it is proven by her fingerprints being found along with several unknown sets. The entire claim that she conducted a viewing of 37SR seems to rest on the diary entry, the HR sighting and the assumption that she took the keys. Hard evidence that she did is missing.

DV is definitely onto something with his questioning of how Sturgis / the police got into 37SR if SJL took the only set of keys. The likeliest visitors seem to me to have been other Sturgis staff later, looking for SJL there per her diary, and who got in using the keys she didn't take.

This visit was 2 to 3 hours later, but HR rowed back on so much of his account that he may simply have felt embarrassed at having to admit he got the time wrong as well. If all he saw was MG and SF looking for SJL, then he saw nothing. It's a much simpler explanation of what he saw than this 'Mr Kipper' wraith nobody identified at the time. All in all he's a pretty "shaky" figure...

 

[Cherwell]

Hence the schoolboy and WJ sightings are most likely of a similar car in the same place. That's if the schoolboy sighting is even real. I can't think why he'd notice such an unremarkable car. It seems likelier that he just wanted to get involved in the investigation and perhaps have his picture in the paper.

Perhaps, but the letters in the registration of the car - GAN - are quite eye-catching as they spell a pronounceable word, of sorts. And very close to "Gran". i would want to know if either of these witnesses (and also BW) noticed the GAN on the number plate.

 

[Cluesleuth]

Hence the schoolboy and WJ sightings are most likely of a similar car in the same place. That's if the schoolboy sighting is even real. I can't think why he'd notice such an unremarkable car. It seems likelier that he just wanted to get involved in the investigation and perhaps have his picture in the paper.

Did he noticed it because he was the son of the the owner of the garage?

In conversation with DV WJ mentions that the Mahaons children were older than her children who were 4 & 8.

One other thing I noted was that WJ never said the car was parked askew only that it parked partly blocking the garage.
JMO

 

[Crusader21]

Perhaps, but the letters in the registration of the car - GAN - are quite eye-catching as they spell a pronounceable word, of sorts. And very close to "Gran". i would want to know if either of these witnesses (and also BW) noticed the GAN on the number plate.

A side issue but I remember reading somewhere, that BW stated that on a few work-related occassions BW actually travelled in that fiesta herself whilst being driven by SL!

I've often thought that any dna (fingerprints, hairs, fibres from clothes), recovered from the police would have been worthless, because of the multiple drivers and occupants from what was a work vehicle.

 

[WestLondoner]

A side issue but I remember reading somewhere, that BW stated that on a few work-related occassions BW actually travelled in that fiesta herself whilst being driven by SL!

I've often thought that any dna (fingerprints, hairs, fibres from clothes), recovered from the police would have been worthless, because of the multiple drivers and occupants from what was a work vehicle.

Yes, and also, the vehicle showed no signs of having been wiped down. This suggests that whoever drove it either wore gloves (odd things to have about you at the end of July); or, wasn't worried about having to explain the presence of his fingerprints inside the car, because they could be innocently explained.

Which says someone she knew, or someone who would have had a reason to have previously been inside or at the wheel of her car. Friends, workmates, work contacts.

 

[Cherwell]

One other thing I noted was that WJ never said the car was parked askew only that it parked partly blocking the garage.

Maybe it's just me but, going by the photos I've seen, I would never have described the car as partly blocking the garage. There's a slight overhang, no more than that. It wouldn't have impeded access.