UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

[Terryb808]

It is very rare for a story to get so big that it gets to the point of obsession. The only missing people in the UK that have reached that level in recent years are arguably Madeleine McCann, Nicola Bulley and the Soham girls.
Nowadays cases like this are becoming more common because we are in the age of social media.
Also I personally think that Suzy have quite an average ordinary appearance for a 25 year old woman in the 80s.

The McCann disappearance did register with me, as did the Soham girls, but that’s down to being a parent.
IMO a 3 year old should never have been left alone, and this is what made this case stand out.
The Soham girls stood out because the perpetrator was hiding in plain sight.
I wonder if this is the case with Suzy Lamplugh.

 

[benowens]

The McCann disappearance did register with me, as did the Soham girls, but that’s down to being a parent.
IMO a 3 year old should never have been left alone, and this is what made this case stand out.
The Soham girls stood out because the perpetrator was hiding in plain sight.
I wonder if this is the case with Suzy Lamplugh.

Suzy's case is very high-profile, but I feel as if it did not have the same sort of "buzz" or obsession surrounding it as the other three I mentioned.

 

[tes1984]

Also I personally think that Suzy have quite an average ordinary appearance for a 25 year old woman in the 80s.

Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I think Suzy was considered well above average in terms of her looks.
She claimed her boss made her sit by the window, as she was the best looking member of staff. She was also supposed to be the face of a new beauty based business.
Suzy seems to have had no shortage of men looking to date her. I don't think she was an average looking Bridget Jones type, sitting at home in her pyjamas, hoping a successful man would notice her one day.

 

[WestLondoner]

It's largely a matter of personal experience. The Lamplugh case was huge if you were of her age and demographic, and exposed to the same apparent risk of meeting strangers for appointments in out-of-the-way places. I was, and so were my female colleagues, and they were aghast at the risk they didn't realise they had been running.

The fact that it remained unsolved just made it even more absorbing. The idea that this was Cannan originated in the press after the Banks trial in 1989. We should remember that when the Met put their case re Cannan to the CPS in 2000, it was dismissed because they had no evidence Cannan had ever met SJL or that he had been in Fulham that day. Without those there's nothing.

The bulk of the police case against him seems to arise from information laid against him ten years after the fact by his former accomplice and career criminal James Taggart. This intelligence gave a credible path by which Cannan could have got her back to Taggart's nearby council flat, murdered her inside, and driven her away in the boot of the car we know he used, but it produced absolutely no evidence of anything - that he had met her, was in Fulham that day etc. The question also arises whether Taggart simply fabricated an inconclusive account to curry favour with the police; what was this career offender's agenda in informing?

 

[WestLondoner]

Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I think Suzy was considered well above average in terms of her looks.
She claimed her boss made her sit by the window, as she was the best looking member of staff. She was also supposed to be the face of a new beauty based business.
Suzy seems to have had no shortage of men looking to date her. I don't think she was an average looking Bridget Jones type, sitting at home in her pyjamas, hoping a successful man would notice her one day.

She was what the young people would call a babe. My area manager bought his house through her branch of Sturgis and remembered her even though he never spoke to her. My colleagues and I thought she was attractive. If you were going to be hyper-critical, she didn't have a flawless figure; she seems to have lost weight between the time of the older photographs released and the last taken of her.

 

[tes1984]

Suzy's case is discussed in the same tone as if her body had been found.

Might her body have been found, just not yet identified as Suzy?

Donna Lass disappeared in California in 1970. She was thought to have been a victim of the infamous Zodiac killer.
Her remains were discovered in 1986, yet she was only identified by familial DNA in 2023.

 

[tes1984]

The bulk of the police case against him seems to arise from information laid against him ten years after the fact by his former accomplice and career criminal James Taggart. This intelligence gave a credible path by which Cannan could have got her back to Taggart's nearby council flat, murdered her inside, and driven her away in the boot of the car we know he used, but it produced absolutely no evidence of anything - that he had met her, was in Fulham that day etc. The question also arises whether Taggart simply fabricated an inconclusive account to curry favour with the police; what was this career offender's agenda in informing?

Do you think Cannan was staying with Taggart, after they left the hostel?

I've never seen any suggestion as to where Cannan was staying when Suzy disappeared. Did he book a hotel, sleep in his borrowed car, or stay with a friend?

Cannan is in the hostel for the first half of 1986. Do you know if they had to sign in and out? I'm presuming they had weekend leave to disappear as they pleased, but what about during the week.. was there any sort of supervision or curfew?

Did anyone else live in Taggart's flat? Or was it just sitting empty, while Taggart was living out of the hostel, just a few miles away?

 

[benowens]

Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I think Suzy was considered well above average in terms of her looks.
She claimed her boss made her sit by the window, as she was the best looking member of staff. She was also supposed to be the face of a new beauty based business.
Suzy seems to have had no shortage of men looking to date her. I don't think she was an average looking Bridget Jones type, sitting at home in her pyjamas, hoping a successful man would notice her one day.

I didn't meant that she was not pretty. I meant that there were alot of women with a similar appearance back then. She looked a bit like Jill Dando in my opinion.

 

[WestLondoner]

Do you think Cannan was staying with Taggart, after they left the hostel?

I've never seen any suggestion as to where Cannan was staying when Suzy disappeared. Did he book a hotel, sleep in his borrowed car, or stay with a friend?

Cannan is in the hostel for the first half of 1986. Do you know if they had to sign in and out? I'm presuming they had weekend leave to disappear as they pleased, but what about during the week.. was there any sort of supervision or curfew?

Did anyone else live in Taggart's flat? Or was it just sitting empty, while Taggart was living out of the hostel, just a few miles away?

Taggart shared the council flat with his wife. Cannan claimed he went back to his mother's house on release the previous Friday and that his mother and sister could confirm this. This alibi was never checked out at the time and this failure was later parlayed by police into 'he had no alibi', but that is not true.

Like Cannan Taggart was a thief so he may have stolen the BMW supposedly sighted. The trouble with Taggart's information is that he gave it 10 to 14 years later and nothing confirmed it. So it appears to be hearsay and could easily be stuff he had read or made up to trade for favours with the police.

There was supposedly a curfew at the hostel but I don't think it's clear that it was properly enforced or whether inmates had complete liberty at weekends. It is known that Cannan's red Sierra was in Southampton the day Sandra Court was murdered and that her killer drove towards London discarding her personal effects out of the carvalong the way. That one does smell very much like Cannan.

A difficult inconsistency about JC is that if for argument's sake he murdered SC and SJL as well as SB, he became a less rather than more accomplished murderer with experience. SC's body was found almost immediately, whereas SJL's has never been found and he was bang to rights re SB before her body was found. The fool had kept her car in his own garage and its tax disc in his own car in which he went out raping. You have to wonder why, if he killed SJL, he didn't do a better job of hiding SB so that like SJL she'd never be found.

This detail suggests to me that there was a feature of SJL's murder that the killer could not easily repeat or reuse, I.e. he was able to conceal her inside private property to which he had access. For my money SJL is under a house somewhere in West London.

 

[WestLondoner]

Might her body have been found, just not yet identified as Suzy?

Donna Lass disappeared in California in 1970. She was thought to have been a victim of the infamous Zodiac killer.
Her remains were discovered in 1986, yet she was only identified by familial DNA in 2023.

There are about 6,000 people who have gone permanently missing in the UK and who based on their present age could still be alive. This includes SJL I would think, although she was declared dead in 1994, so it may not. In addition to those 6,000, there are about another 1,000 bodies or parts thereof that are unidentified and belong to people who are not among the 6,000. So those 1,000 are people who have in actuality gone missing, but have not been reported as such by anyone. I am fairly sure these people do get tested to see if they could be any of those logged as missing.

It is quite sobering though that the FBI think there are 20 to 30 undetected serial killers active in the USA. Proportionately this implies there could be about four to six in the UK. It seems quite plausible that by selecting as victims the sort of people who will not even be reported missing, and disposing of the bodies in ways that the cause of death can't be established if they are found, they could kill repeatedly and never really register on anyone's radar. Nobody, for example, realised there was a gay serial killer in London in the 70s and 80s from the disappearances of young gay men. This only came to light when Dennis Nilsen blocked the drains of his flat with their remains. Prior to that, nobody was looking for a gay serial killer.

 

[WestLondoner]

Suzy Lamplugh suspect John Cannan raped me when I was nine, expat tells police 40 years on

Woman who moved to Australia to escape her traumatic past remains frustrated at lack of action after identifying sex killer as her attacker

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[RichardKimble]

Let's say for arguments same JC is the killer of SJL and also SC, why after committing the perfect crime of killing SJL and not leaving a trace of involvement did he then leave all manner of evidence in the SB murder ie: not least a body and also SC leaving a body if its him, did the notoriety of fooling the police with the SJL case play to his ego makes, no sense otherwise to me at least.

 

[tes1984]

Let's say for arguments same JC is the killer of SJL and also SC, why after committing the perfect crime of killing SJL and not leaving a trace of involvement did he then leave all manner of evidence in the SB murder ie: not least a body and also SC leaving a body if its him, did the notoriety of fooling the police with the SJL case play to his ego makes, no sense otherwise to me at least.

Good question. Some serial killers seem to get a God complex, and feel unstoppable, then get sloppy and caught. Others 'devolve' due to deterioration of already very fragile mental health.

JC seems to have been an alcoholic. If his drinking got worse through 1986 and 87, it might explain how he seems to get worse and worse with experience.

It's quite weird though. If he's the 'organised' houses for sale rapist, then after 1980 he devolves into a 'disorganised' rapist, gets caught and goes to prison, gets released but remains disorganised and kills Sandra, then evolves back into a very organised offender for Suzy, then devolves back into a disorganised rapist and killer (of Shirley). Hope that makes sense!!

 

[RichardKimble]

Good question. Some serial killers seem to get a God complex, and feel unstoppable, then get sloppy and caught. Others 'devolve' due to deterioration of already very fragile mental health.

JC seems to have been an alcoholic. If his drinking got worse through 1986 and 87, it might explain how he seems to get worse and worse with experience.

It's quite weird though. If he's the 'organised' houses for sale rapist, then after 1980 he devolves into a 'disorganised' rapist, gets caught and goes to prison, gets released but remains disorganised and kills Sandra, then evolves back into a very organised offender for Suzy, then devolves back into a disorganised rapist and killer (of Shirley). Hope that makes sense!!

Kind of, there doesn't seem to be a mo that could be picked up on.imo

 

[Terryb808]

There are about 6,000 people who have gone permanently missing in the UK and who based on their present age could still be alive. This includes SJL I would think, although she was declared dead in 1994, so it may not. In addition to those 6,000, there are about another 1,000 bodies or parts thereof that are unidentified and belong to people who are not among the 6,000. So those 1,000 are people who have in actuality gone missing, but have not been reported as such by anyone. I am fairly sure these people do get tested to see if they could be any of those logged as missing.

It is quite sobering though that the FBI think there are 20 to 30 undetected serial killers active in the USA. Proportionately this implies there could be about four to six in the UK. It seems quite plausible that by selecting as victims the sort of people who will not even be reported missing, and disposing of the bodies in ways that the cause of death can't be established if they are found, they could kill repeatedly and never really register on anyone's radar. Nobody, for example, realised there was a gay serial killer in London in the 70s and 80s from the disappearances of young gay men. This only came to light when Dennis Nilsen blocked the drains of his flat with their remains. Prior to that, nobody was looking for a gay serial killer.

Good question. Some serial killers seem to get a God complex, and feel unstoppable, then get sloppy and caught. Others 'devolve' due to deterioration of already very fragile mental health.

JC seems to have been an alcoholic. If his drinking got worse through 1986 and 87, it might explain how he seems to get worse and worse with experience.

It's quite weird though. If he's the 'organised' houses for sale rapist, then after 1980 he devolves into a 'disorganised' rapist, gets caught and goes to prison, gets released but remains disorganised and kills Sandra, then evolves back into a very organised offender for Suzy, then devolves back into a disorganised rapist and killer (of Shirley). Hope that makes sense!!

I think this makes perfect sense, if he did kill SC it was while at the pre-release hostel and his drink problem was under control.
There is a theory that SJL knocked him back by not spending that weekend with him and going away somewhere else.
This resulted in the SC murder and possibly the poor way he discarded her body and belongings.
It’s just possible that JC partially planned SJL’s murder, but it was a reaction to her giving him the elbow on that Monday.
Additionally, he could just have had a lot of luck in his deposition method and that’s why he’s never been charged.
Post SJL’s disappearance he seems to have gone completely out of control (god complex) and killed Shirley Banks.
At this point it appeared he just didn’t care and took risks that an established serial killer wouldn’t.

 

[WestLondoner]

One of the pitfalls I guess for us is that we are apt to place weight on what we would do to avoid detection. The problem is, we're rational individuals, not malevolent psychopaths, so what we'd do bears scant relation to what a repeat killer would do. GOK what goes through a killer's head but it's not what goes through ours, that's for sure.

It's at least possible that Cannan had killed several times before SB, always got away with it, and so simply got sloppy, on the basis that there's minimal risk of being caught. If so, he is actually not wrong. If for the sake of argument he did kill SC, SJL, and SB, he got away with two out of three. Arguably, serial killers who are caught get away with all but one of their murders.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Taggart shared the car with JC & kept up HP payments when Taggart couldn’t afford. If it was JC then Taggart therefore unwittingly, generally, helped him, poss with access to a local lock up & flat too (which Taggart actually had at time, or v close to it). If Taggart later got any wind of more than petty crime going on, which he obvs did from later press etc, it explains his later complete disassociation.

DV - says he has more, clearly so, IMO, as he expected an imminent arrest & what he presented in his book was really no more than interesting conjecture. He feels more adamant & as an ex policeman he would understand how compelling evidence needed to be to that end. He says in book he had/has a dossier & exhibits, etc, I believe.

 

[WestLondoner]

What I immediately found bemusing about DV's book was the leap from 'there's a space under the pub floor' to 'she died there (and obviously KH did it)'. That surely can't be it?! He must have more to back this up or his case is no better than the Met's.

I was always puzzled that he bigged up all the people he'd tracked down for the book, who he had met and interviewed as far away as Australia, but none of this material made it into the book.

 

[WestLondoner]

Do we know if DH, SJL's ex with whom (per AS) she was still occasionally sleeping, has ever spoken about the case? Along with the PSS/TS couple, he is someone whose profile is oddly low.

One of the supposed Kipper witnesses said he had a suntan. DH certainly would have done, as he had been teaching sailing in Corsica until the previous Sunday. Another witness said Kipper was pasty. So he was a tallish, shortish guy with a tanned, pasty face in a scruffy, smart suit, carrying and not carrying a bottle of champagne (presumably Louis Schroedinger. See what I did there?).

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

DV’s book, & I think the press at time, suggested NDAs in place, poss after AS’s 87 book.