UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

[Westchester76]

Cannan had Banks call her office the morning after she was abducted to say she wasn't coming in that day. Almost 12 hours after he grabbed her. Firstly, that is a very strange thing to do. Presumably he had got what he wanted the night before, so why is she still alive, if murder and rape was the intention? If he planned to kill her later that day, why even get her to make the call, it could of backfired in a number of ways for Cannan.
As a previous poster said, it does seem strange that Cannan commits an almost perfect abduction in London during daytime, but then follows this up with Shirley Banks where he takes immeasurable risks of taking her car as well and the phone call.

 

[WestLondoner]

Getting her to call in would delay the hue and cry that would otherwise arise, I guess. If, for the sake of argument, one hypothesises that Cannan did in fact kill all three of SC, SJL and SB, it is perhaps possible that he found it straightforward to evade detection with the first two. He then perhaps became careless about how he went about the third.

I can't think otherwise how he'd become less competent and I don't find it convincing. His history was of being a chaotic and impulsive criminal whose attacks were usually pretty inept. I can see him being behind SC and then SB, but the total disappearance, body and all, of SJL bespeaks either a careful murderer or a careless investigation.

 

[Terryb808]

Getting her to call in would delay the hue and cry that would otherwise arise, I guess. If, for the sake of argument, one hypothesises that Cannan did in fact kill all three of SC, SJL and SB, it is perhaps possible that he found it straightforward to evade detection with the first two. He then perhaps became careless about how he went about the third.

I can't think otherwise how he'd become less competent and I don't find it convincing. His history was of being a chaotic and impulsive criminal whose attacks were usually pretty inept. I can see him being behind SC and then SB, but the total disappearance, body and all, of SJL bespeaks either a careful murderer or a careless investigation.

I think it’s a bit of both, the Met were pre- occupied when Suzy disappeared with the cement works case.
They were slow to accept Suzy had been abducted and then failed to look at the most obvious suspects (of which Cannan would have been one).
If Cannan is responsible for Suzy’s disappearance & murder I’d have to think he’d have been a little more careful being only just released from prison.
Later in the case of Shirley Banks he’s returned to his natural approach, which is an inept criminal.

 

[tes1984]

Cannan had Banks call her office the morning after she was abducted to say she wasn't coming in that day. Almost 12 hours after he grabbed her. Firstly, that is a very strange thing to do. Presumably he had got what he wanted the night before, so why is she still alive, if murder and rape was the intention? If he planned to kill her later that day, why even get her to make the call, it could of backfired in a number of ways for Cannan.
As a previous poster said, it does seem strange that Cannan commits an almost perfect abduction in London during daytime, but then follows this up with Shirley Banks where he takes immeasurable risks of taking her car as well and the phone call.

Cannan is a very strange and twisted character.

He was probably enjoying the psychological torture of Shirley having to make a call with a knife to her throat. It shows Shirley's immense strength that even 12 hours into a horrific abduction, she was still coherent enough to make even a remotely believable call.

Cannan was thinking more about satisfying his weird desires, than committing the most logical crime.

He called Shirley's relatives for weeks after the murder. They received silent breather calls, even relatives with ex directory numbers, and those who had moved house recently. Cannan obviously went through Shirley's handbag and kept her diary and phone numbers.

 

[Terryb808]

Cannan is a very strange and twisted character.

He was probably enjoying the psychological torture of Shirley having to make a call with a knife to her throat. It shows Shirley's immense strength that even 12 hours into a horrific abduction, she was still coherent enough to make even a remotely believable call.

Cannan was thinking more about satisfying his weird desires, than committing the most logical crime.

He called Shirley's relatives for weeks after the murder. They received silent breather calls, even relatives with ex directory numbers, and those who had moved house recently. Cannan obviously went through Shirley's handbag and kept her diary and phone numbers.

Similar to what KH said about the calls to the PoW pub on the Monday afternoon. His account placed these call prior to her being reported missing.
As the old saying goes “a Leopard never changed is spots”, so was the mysterious Sarah actually Suzy?

 

[tes1984]

Similar to what KH said about the calls to the PoW pub on the Monday afternoon. His account placed these call prior to her being reported missing.
As the old saying goes “a Leopard never changed is spots”, so was the mysterious Sarah actually Suzy?

Suzy seems like a good candidate for the mysterious Sarah.

Suzy's flatmate said that someone had been making heavy breather type calls in the weeks leading up to Suzy's disappearance. I wonder if this was Cannan.

 

[Terryb808]

Suzy seems like a good candidate for the mysterious Sarah.

Suzy's flatmate said that someone had been making heavy breather type calls in the weeks leading up to Suzy's disappearance. I wonder if this was Cannan.

Well Cannan did the same thing with Shirley Banks friends & relatives apparently.
Given Shirley was already dead it just show how sick the person making these calls was.

 

[WestLondoner]

Similar to what KH said about the calls to the PoW pub on the Monday afternoon. His account placed these call prior to her being reported missing.
As the old saying goes “a Leopard never changed is spots”, so was the mysterious Sarah actually Suzy?

If so, her killer was getting her to lay a false trail for him to the pub, which nobody actually picked up until DV delved into this - 35 years later!

 

[Terryb808]

If so, her killer was getting her to lay a false trail for him to the pub, which nobody actually picked up until DV delved into this - 35 years later!

It takes thrr we Met a little time to get into gear, DV obviously had about (IIRC) 5 years to come up with the PoW narrative. But he believes JC is innocent.

 

[lee sumner]

There are about 6,000 people who have gone permanently missing in the UK and who based on their present age could still be alive. This includes SJL I would think, although she was declared dead in 1994, so it may not. In addition to those 6,000, there are about another 1,000 bodies or parts thereof that are unidentified and belong to people who are not among the 6,000. So those 1,000 are people who have in actuality gone missing, but have not been reported as such by anyone. I am fairly sure these people do get tested to see if they could be any of those logged as missing.

It is quite sobering though that the FBI think there are 20 to 30 undetected serial killers active in the USA. Proportionately this implies there could be about four to six in the UK. It seems quite plausible that by selecting as victims the sort of people who will not even be reported missing, and disposing of the bodies in ways that the cause of death can't be established if they are found, they could kill repeatedly and never really register on anyone's radar. Nobody, for example, realised there was a gay serial killer in London in the 70s and 80s from the disappearances of young gay men. This only came to light when Dennis Nilsen blocked the drains of his flat with their remains. Prior to that, nobody was looking for a gay serial killer.

spot on about dennis nilsen. same with colin ireland in the 1990s.

 

[lee sumner]

After his rape conviction in the early 80s, was Cannan housed in the general prison population, or did he serve his sentence in the segregation units for sex offenders?

probably rule 43 i think its called. where the nonces are kept.

 

[lee sumner]

I think there has been minor speculation that she could have disappeared herself before now but not an idea that anyone's committed to AFAIK. IMO, if she was in dire financial troubles (no evidence), and not too bothered about her family (seems she was fond of them), and everything was coming 'on top', suppose she could have gone full pelt 'canoe-man' and run off with a fresh identity to somewhere else in order to start a new life, maybe with a bloke?

JMO MOO

if suzy was going to disappear and start a new life somewhere she would have waited until she sold her flat on disraeli rd putney. the fact that her flat was still on the market speaks volumes. she must have been abducted. she would need money behind her to start a new life somewhere.

 

[Terryb808]

I think (correct me if I’m wrong) WestLondoner highlights this elsewhere in this thread, at the time SJL disappeared there were an alarming number of rapists in and around Fulham.
In fact a victim was abducted, raped and left in the middle of a forest just a week before SJL disappeared.
Cannan was just one of the many, it’s difficult to understand why (given the incident a week earlier) that it took the police so long to see a possible link.
This factor makes an SJL abduction more likely than her starting a new life.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Cannan had Banks call her office the morning after she was abducted to say she wasn't coming in that day. Almost 12 hours after he grabbed her. Firstly, that is a very strange thing to do. Presumably he had got what he wanted the night before, so why is she still alive, if murder and rape was the intention? If he planned to kill her later that day, why even get her to make the call, it could of backfired in a number of ways for Cannan.
As a previous poster said, it does seem strange that Cannan commits an almost perfect abduction in London during daytime, but then follows this up with Shirley Banks where he takes immeasurable risks of taking her car as well and the phone call.

Maybe, if JC did abduct SJL, he didn't view it as the perfect crime at the time because people were already looking for SJL that afternoon, night, and it went into mainstream news unusually quickly by the next day - probably far quicker than he'd imagined.

Therefore, the next time he did the same thing he forced the victim to call her work to say she'd not be coming in - an 'improvement' in planning from his POV, giving him extra time (with an alive victim?).
Perhaps, bearing in mind how easily he got away with abducting SJL, he took higher risks in keeping SB's car rather than parking it up anywhere - an added benefit of the crime from his POV. Maybe he became arrogant and felt invincible. Also if part of his motivation is to keep a victim alive and abuse and humiliate them, he could have been in a cycle of compulsion / addiction that meant he was taking increased risks.

JMO MOO, I don't think JC did this crime but just putting out ideas.

 

[lee sumner]

Maybe, if JC did abduct SJL, he didn't view it as the perfect crime at the time because people were already looking for SJL that afternoon, night, and it went into mainstream news unusually quickly by the next day - probably far quicker than he'd imagined.

Therefore, the next time he did the same thing he forced the victim to call her work to say she'd not be coming in - an 'improvement' in planning from his POV, giving him extra time (with an alive victim?).
Perhaps, bearing in mind how easily he got away with abducting SJL, he took higher risks in keeping SB's car rather than parking it up anywhere - an added benefit of the crime from his POV. Maybe he became arrogant and felt invincible. Also if part of his motivation is to keep a victim alive and abuse and humiliate them, he could have been in a cycle of compulsion / addiction that meant he was taking increased risks.

JMO MOO, I don't think JC did this crime but just putting out ideas.

keeping hold of SB car in his garage, then he sprays the car blue with the SLP numberplate. why not just ditch the car like SL car was ditched. not a smart move in my opinion. then they find SB tax disc in his briefcase. he left a lot of evidence behind.

 

[lee sumner]

Maybe, if JC did abduct SJL, he didn't view it as the perfect crime at the time because people were already looking for SJL that afternoon, night, and it went into mainstream news unusually quickly by the next day - probably far quicker than he'd imagined.

Therefore, the next time he did the same thing he forced the victim to call her work to say she'd not be coming in - an 'improvement' in planning from his POV, giving him extra time (with an alive victim?).
Perhaps, bearing in mind how easily he got away with abducting SJL, he took higher risks in keeping SB's car rather than parking it up anywhere - an added benefit of the crime from his POV. Maybe he became arrogant and felt invincible. Also if part of his motivation is to keep a victim alive and abuse and humiliate them, he could have been in a cycle of compulsion / addiction that meant he was taking increased risks.

JMO MOO, I don't think JC did this crime but just putting out ideas.

if JC is not the man who snatched SL, then the detectives who have worked the case over the years are looking at this case the wrong way. i dont think JC is the mysterious mr kipper.

 

[lee sumner]

Maybe, if JC did abduct SJL, he didn't view it as the perfect crime at the time because people were already looking for SJL that afternoon, night, and it went into mainstream news unusually quickly by the next day - probably far quicker than he'd imagined.

Therefore, the next time he did the same thing he forced the victim to call her work to say she'd not be coming in - an 'improvement' in planning from his POV, giving him extra time (with an alive victim?).
Perhaps, bearing in mind how easily he got away with abducting SJL, he took higher risks in keeping SB's car rather than parking it up anywhere - an added benefit of the crime from his POV. Maybe he became arrogant and felt invincible. Also if part of his motivation is to keep a victim alive and abuse and humiliate them, he could have been in a cycle of compulsion / addiction that meant he was taking increased risks.

JMO MOO, I don't think JC did this crime but just putting

The McCann disappearance did register with me, as did the Soham girls, but that’s down to being a parent.
IMO a 3 year old should never have been left alone, and this is what made this case stand out.
The Soham girls stood out because the perpetrator was hiding in plain sight.
I wonder if this is the case with Suzy Lamplugh.

i thought the same. is the perp who took SL hiding in plain sight, while everyone is convinced JC took her he never did. he was just playing mind games. we will probably never know.

 

[tes1984]

I think JC is still the most likely perp, but IMO the whole investigation was very poor right through from 1986 to the early 00s, when the Met police declared him the only suspect. It's like they threw their toys out of the pram after the CPS rejected their case.

 

[tes1984]

I think (correct me if I’m wrong) WestLondoner highlights this elsewhere in this thread, at the time SJL disappeared there were an alarming number of rapists in and around Fulham.
In fact a victim was abducted, raped and left in the middle of a forest just a week before SJL disappeared.
Cannan was just one of the many, it’s difficult to understand why (given the incident a week earlier) that it took the police so long to see a possible link.
This factor makes an SJL abduction more likely than her starting a new life.

My view is that the Met focused on known associates at the expense of known offenders. I can't recall a case where the police allowed themselves to be led so much by the family of a victim.

If SJL was planning to start a new life, then surely she would have disappeared on a Friday evening, not on a Monday lunchtime. She was reported missing almost immediately.

She would presumably also have changed the deeds to her flat and pocketed 50k or so, rather than vanishing without any real running away money.

 

[WestLondoner]

If you do the arithmetic it's clear that while JC may be a plausible suspect (albeit recognised as such 14 years too late), he's only one of hundreds of similar local sex offenders.

We know that there are about 4,000 rape convictions a year, give or take. It goes up and down a bit, but it's roughly that. If we take the UK population in 1986 as being 56 million, with London's share as 8 million, then London had 1 in 7 of the populace. It follows that London probably had 1 in 7 of the 4,000 convicted for rape, as well. That's six hundred a year in London. If you conservatively assume that SJL's patch of London was only a third of it, that still means about two hundred men in her area being convicted of rape every year.

That's not the total number of dangerous men, however. The two hundred is just a minimum subset of the real number, whose size we don't know, of men local to SJL and capable of rape. The two hundred are just the individuals who got caught that year having done something so bad they were convicted. The figure leaves out all those caught but who got off, or where the charges were dropped, or who were never even reported, or who if they were, were not caught until years later - if then. It could be into the thousands.

The Scrubs itself holds about 1.25% of the UK prison population. If there are 4,000 rape convictions a year, then probably there are about the same number released every year (as otherwise the prisons would eventually fill up). 1.25% of 4,000 is 50 a year, i.e. at that time the Scrubs must have taken in and released about one such a week.

But Wandsworth and Brixton together hold twice as many lags as the Scrubs, and they are nearer to where SJL worked than the Scrubs. So they were presumably releasing another two a week between them. Between all three prisons, they must have released 100 rapists so far that year.

My question then is why SJL's killer can't have been any of those released from Brixton or Wandsworth. After JC was pointed out, his ex-con status was brought up, but there were 100 other ex-rapists released in the area and AFAIK nobody's eliminated any of them.