UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[Interested_But_Confused]

DV's book goes into detail about the walk WJ took with her two children and their dog, before she went out shopping with AM. If there's any chance Suzy did want to show 123SR to a client, I wonder if she could have knocked at the door when WJ was out for her walk and not received an answer? Probably not, but maybe worth considering.

DV's book contains a lot of interesting information and tries hard to make sense of conflicting information. But I'm not sure it really answers very much, unfortunately.

 

[WestLondoner]

WJ debunks every other witness so every theory has to debunk her

 

[WiseOwl]

For my money, he's anxious not to be challenged about

• why he said SL lost her stuff on Friday when in fact it can only have been Sunday,
• why he claimed they spoke by phone on Sunday when they could have done so any time that day,
• why she ghosted him the whole weekend when the pair of them ought to have been gagging for it,
• whether DL had ever asked him to lie to protect SJL's reputation, and
• if he was aware he'd been Cuck of the Walk 1986 as SJL carried on with at least three other blokes.

DV immediately bringing up his relationship with SJL tells him this is not going to be one of those deferential conversations where we all agree it was Cannan. It's a big red flag that all this might be about to come up - and what's in it for AL to discuss it?

Also, what i feel has been overlooked is that AL phoned Suzy at the Sturgis office at 4.45 that Monday afternoon and left a message (AS book page 17). What was this call about and why has it never been mentioned over the years? The Sunday night call has been discussed endlessly, and he claims in DV's book that he cannot recall who called who.

A pity DV didn't ask him about this Monday afternoon call and what it was about.

No-one from the Sturgis office has ever been reported as hearing this message he left either - did AL know by 4.45 that Suzy had gone missing? Had MG or DL contacted him by this time?

 

[WestLondoner]

While we're on the subject of car sightings I'm interested in this supposed sighting of a classic BMW in Shorrolds. It's s often relied on as proof Cannan was there because he later had a BMW on HP. Other sightings don't mention a classic BMW and just allude to a dark one that may have been LHD.

I am not a BMW buff although I did quite like the BMW325i of the day. This had slightly changed its shape in 1984, the main difference being a drooping boot line on the earlier car that was level on the later one. In 1986 though I suspect the only BMW likely to be regarded as a classic would have been the 02 series. There was a 1602 a 2002 and a desirable 2002 Turbo. These went out of production in about 1977 to be succeeded by the early 3 series. That was retired in 1984 and succeeded by a facelifted one. The 1977-84 wasn't a classic at that point, it was just an old used car.

This makes me think that whatever BMW was seen later with a couple arguing in it was not the same car as the classic seen in SR. If Cannan had "access" to a BMW (whatever that means) then it is likelier to have been an obsolete 3 series than a classic and the LHD ones were (still are) cheaper because they're such a pain.

 

[WiseOwl]

The details about lunchtime on July 28, with Suzy left sitting at her desk when everyone else was out having fun, definitely increases the chance that she just said, "To hell with it," and wrote a fake appointment in her diary as an excuse to leave.

I doubt very much that everyone else was out having fun that lunchtime; IMO that's just DV putting his spin on it.

KR had just returned from the bank, JC was still in the office as Suzy had asked him where he had parked her car. MG was there too, as it says in AS book on page 6:

'The estate manager (MG) remembered Susannah coming behind his desk to pick up the keys, which were attached to the large and distinctive yellow Sturgis key fob.'

DV conveniently fails to mention this snippet of information wen he comes to his eureka moment in his book when he and his companion come to the conclusion that Suzy never took the keys to 37SR. Also, he interviews MG twice in his book but fails to ask him the question of did he see Suzy take the keys from behind his desk that lunchtime.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I doubt very much that everyone else was out having fun that lunchtime; IMO that's just DV putting his spin on it.

KR had just returned from the bank, JC was still in the office as Suzy had asked him where he had parked her car. MG was there too, as it says in AS book on page 6:

'The estate manager (MG) remembered Susannah coming behind his desk to pick up the keys, which were attached to the large and distinctive yellow Sturgis key fob.'

DV conveniently fails to mention this snippet of information wen he comes to his eureka moment in his book when he and his companion come to the conclusion that Suzy never took the keys to 37SR. Also, he interviews MG twice in his book but fails to ask him the question of did he see Suzy take the keys from behind his desk that lunchtime.

The only explanation I can think of for the keys, if Suzy did indeed take them, is that they *were* left in the car; the police either deliberately withheld that information, or it somehow got lost in the shuffle.

DV's book contains a lot of useful information (though it's obvious he's trying to create a narrative rather than necessarily acting as a reliable source) but ultimately, his conclusion about the PoW seems to be pulled out of thin air: If she wasn't really going to 37SR, she MUST have been going to the PoW earlier than expected. No actual evidence to back that up.

For all we know, Suzy could have been having the tennis game (which DL apparently mentioned in a radio interview 2 days after SJL disappeared) at lunchtime, rather than after work.

 

[WiseOwl]

I think Suzy took the keys regardless of if it was a genuine appointment or not. If she was going elsewhere at 12.45 she would of still taken the keys to convince the other office staff she was off to 37SR that lunchtime.

The tennis is an interesting thought: DL did mention it in an interview 2 days after Suzy had disappeared, saying that she had a game of tennis on the Monday evening. As we know, Suzy had an appointment in her diary for 6pm that Monday evening, could she have changed her tennis time to the lunchtime instead? Not far from where her car was parked on Stevenage Road is Bishop's Park Road, where there are tennis courts.

If the tennis game was genuine, why did whoever she was due to play with never come forward to the police and say they were due to meet her that Monday evening? Who did she play tennis with? AL? Sturgis staff? Somebody from the Putney set?

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I think Suzy took the keys regardless of if it was a genuine appointment or not. If she was going elsewhere at 12.45 she would of still taken the keys to convince the other office staff she was off to 37SR that lunchtime.

The tennis is an interesting thought: DL did mention it in an interview 2 days after Suzy had disappeared, saying that she had a game of tennis on the Monday evening. As we know, Suzy had an appointment in her diary for 6pm that Monday evening, could she have changed her tennis time to the lunchtime instead? Not far from where her car was parked on Stevenage Road is Bishop's Park Road, where there are tennis courts.

If the tennis game was genuine, why did whoever she was due to play with never come forward to the police and say they were due to meet her that Monday evening? Who did she play tennis with? AL? Sturgis staff? Somebody from the Putney set?

Agreed about the keys. It does make sense to have taken them whether it was a genuine appointment or not. KP doesn't sound like a man to be messed with; if Suzy was trying to protect herself and MG from KP's wrath, what good would it do for MG to say, "Susanna has gone to an appointment at 37SR," and then have KP turn around and yell: "THEN WHY THE HELL ARE THE KEYS STILL HERE?!?"

The transcript of DL's radio interview in DV's book doesn't even specify what time of day the tennis was supposed to be. DL just said, "And she was looking forward to going out with Adam on Tuesday. And playing tennis on Monday."

I did notice how close the tennis courts on Bishop's Park Road are to Stevenage Road; though Suzy's car was parked at the northern end, whereas the tennis courts are at the southern end. Google reckons it would take 10-15 minutes to walk from the car to the tennis courts. Such a long walk increases the chances of an abduction, but doesn't really explain the condition the car was found in.

 

[WiseOwl]

Agreed about the keys. It does make sense to have taken them whether it was a genuine appointment or not. KP doesn't sound like a man to be messed with; if Suzy was trying to protect herself and MG from KP's wrath, what good would it do for MG to say, "Susanna has gone to an appointment at 37SR," and then have KP turn around and yell: "THEN WHY THE HELL ARE THE KEYS STILL HERE?!?"

The transcript of DL's radio interview in DV's book doesn't even specify what time of day the tennis was supposed to be. DL just said, "And she was looking forward to going out with Adam on Tuesday. And playing tennis on Monday."

I did notice how close the tennis courts on Bishop's Park Road are to Stevenage Road; though Suzy's car was parked at the northern end, whereas the tennis courts are at the southern end. Google reckons it would take 10-15 minutes to walk from the car to the tennis courts. Such a long walk increases the chances of an abduction, but doesn't really explain the condition the car was found in.

Yes, she could have had MG in mind when she took the keys - to cover his backside as well as her own.

Looking again at how that sentence was said by DL in DV's book:

"And she was looking forward to going out with Adam on Tuesday. And playing tennis on Monday."

With AL?

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Yes, she could have had MG in mind when she took the keys - to cover his backside as well as her own.

Looking again at how that sentence was said by DL in DV's book:

"And she was looking forward to going out with Adam on Tuesday. And playing tennis on Monday."

With AL?

Could be. I'm really not sure what to make of AL. His defensive during the interview with DV would be understandable, but the way his story seems to keep changing is less understandable.

Let's say Suzy drove to Stevenage Road at about 12:40 and had a 1:00PM tennis game at the courts on Bishop's Park Road. She never got there, presumably, or there would have been witnesses to her playing--unless it simply never occured to anyone that they had seen her at the tennis court, because there was no apparent reason to think she would have been there.

That would, of course, mean sightings outside 37SR weren't Suzy.

 

[WiseOwl]

Could be. I'm really not sure what to make of AL. His defensive during the interview with DV would be understandable, but the way his story seems to keep changing is less understandable.

Let's say Suzy drove to Stevenage Road at about 12:40 and had a 1:00PM tennis game at the courts on Bishop's Park Road. She never got there, presumably, or there would have been witnesses to her playing--unless it simply never occured to anyone that they had seen her at the tennis court, because there was no apparent reason to think she would have been there.

That would, of course, mean sightings outside 37SR weren't Suzy.

Does Bishop's Park Road lead directly onto the Fulham Palace Road?

Which direction was Suzy headed in when seen (allegedly) by BW that afternoon at 2.45 - heading towards or away from BP Road?

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Does Bishop's Park Road lead directly onto the Fulham Palace Road?

Which direction was Suzy headed in when seen (allegedly) by BW that afternoon at 2.45 - heading towards or away from BP Road?

Bishop's Park Rd · London, UK

London, UK

www.google.com

BPR does lead to FPR. Based on my estimate of where BW was when she saw what she believed to be Suzy's car, she would have been close to Wardo Avenue with Suzy heading north--away from BPR, but towards 123SR and potentially 37SR.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I don't know if these road barriers were present on Stevenage Road in 1986, but today, you can only drive to where Suzy's car was found by turning off FPR north of Inglethorpe Street.

Street View · Google Maps

Explore a place in a more immersive way in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[Salah11]

I think Suzy took the keys regardless of if it was a genuine appointment or not. If she was going elsewhere at 12.45 she would of still taken the keys to convince the other office staff she was off to 37SR that lunchtime.

The tennis is an interesting thought: DL did mention it in an interview 2 days after Suzy had disappeared, saying that she had a game of tennis on the Monday evening. As we know, Suzy had an appointment in her diary for 6pm that Monday evening, could she have changed her tennis time to the lunchtime instead? Not far from where her car was parked on Stevenage Road is Bishop's Park Road, where there are tennis courts.

If the tennis game was genuine, why did whoever she was due to play with never come forward to the police and say they were due to meet her that Monday evening? Who did she play tennis with? AL? Sturgis staff? Somebody from the Putney set?

I don’t believe the tennis story as nobody apart from her controlling mother can say that it’s true.

I believe it was just a excuse Suzy came up with to maybe avoid doing something for her mum that night.

Moo

 

[WestLondoner]

'The estate manager (MG) remembered Susannah coming behind his desk to pick up the keys, which were attached to the large and distinctive yellow Sturgis key fob.'

DV conveniently fails to mention this snippet of information wen he comes to his eureka moment in his book when he and his companion come to the conclusion that Suzy never took the keys to 37SR. Also, he interviews MG twice in his book but fails to ask him the question of did he see Suzy take the keys from behind his desk that lunchtime.

To be fair to DV his point I think is that if MG thinks he remembers this, how did he then get into 37SR, and why is there no sign of SJL having done so? The implication is that MG perhaps assumes this must have happened, and said it did whether it did or not.

It would surely have been easy to establish at the time - was he still in the office at 12.40 or had he already gone off with KP?

I am not sure if AS spoke to any of the witnesses at the time or if he spoke only to the police. If the latter that is a big problem.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

To be fair to DV his point I think is that if MG thinks he remembers this, how did he then get into 37SR, and why is there no sign of SJL having done so? The implication is that MG perhaps assumes this must have happened, and said it did whether it did or not.

It would surely have been easy to establish at the time - was he still in the office at 12.40 or had he already gone off with KP?

I am not sure if AS spoke to any of the witnesses at the time or if he spoke only to the police. If the latter that is a big problem.

According to DV, MG didn't go inside 37SR; he just looked around outside. MG supposedly never had the keys. Whether DV is correct about that or not, I don't know.

I've just started reading AS's book, and what I found notable is that MG spoke to HR when he went to 37SR looking for Suzy. If MG spoke to HR about what he had seen, we can reasonably assume it wasn't MG that HR had seen.

MG told the police during his initial 6:45PM phone call that HR had seen a woman bundled into a car. It was this detail that apparently made the police take Suzy's disappearance so seriously. The detail about the woman being bundled into the car was an exaggeration, but it's not entirely clear WHOSE exaggeration it was--HR's when he spoke to MG, or MG's when he spoke to the police.

 

[WiseOwl]

I don’t believe the tennis story as nobody apart from her controlling mother can say that it’s true.

I believe it was just a excuse Suzy came up with to maybe avoid doing something for her mum that night.

Moo

I don't believe the tennis story (true or not) was in any way related to Suzy's disappearance. However, if DL did mention this to the police then it was up to them to find out if there was any connection to what happened to Suzy on that Monday afternoon.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I don't know if these road barriers were present on Stevenage Road in 1986, but today, you can only drive to where Suzy's car was found by turning off FPR north of Inglethorpe Street.

Street View · Google Maps

Explore a place in a more immersive way in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Page 13 of AS's book answers my own question. The barriers were there in 1986. Stevenage Road had been used as a bypass for the much busier FPR, so barriers were installed to prevent that. The northern part of Stevenage Road, where Suzy's vehicle was found, was always the quiet part of Stevenage Road and unlikely to be accessed by accident.

 

[WiseOwl]

To be fair to DV his point I think is that if MG thinks he remembers this, how did he then get into 37SR, and why is there no sign of SJL having done so? The implication is that MG perhaps assumes this must have happened, and said it did whether it did or not.

It would surely have been easy to establish at the time - was he still in the office at 12.40 or had he already gone off with KP?

I am not sure if AS spoke to any of the witnesses at the time or if he spoke only to the police. If the latter that is a big problem.

AS got his information from the police reports at the time plus speaking to some of the officers on the case. I don't believe he spoke to any of the witnesses, which is a shame.

However, the police reports would have the statements from witnesses, and (presumably) this is what AS used for his book.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

It's interesting that AS's book claims two detectives went into 37SR on Monday night, *before* Suzy's apartment was searched or her car was found. Yet DV spoke to the detectives, and they say they didn't go into 37SR that night because they assumed MG had done so. MG, for his part, apparently only looked outside, because he didn't have the keys.

Police were able to enter the house the next morning without breaking the door down, suggesting the keys had been found by then.

What a mess.