UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[Salah11]

Surely they police did search SR that night as it would of been due diligence as that was the last known place she would of been.

40 years after the fact memories fade on what really happened. I know the case was botched but even so they must of searched the last know location she should have been night. IMO

 

[WiseOwl]

It's interesting that AS's book claims two detectives went into 37SR on Monday night, *before* Suzy's apartment was searched or her car was found. Yet DV spoke to the detectives, and they say they didn't go into 37SR that night because they assumed MG had done so. MG, for his part, apparently only looked outside, because he didn't have the keys.

Police were able to enter the house the next morning without breaking the door down, suggesting the keys had been found by then.

What a mess.

'Two plainclothes detectives were immediately sent to 'enter and search' 37 Shorrolds Road. Nothing of apparent relevance was found, but a constable was posted on guard duty outside' (AS book page 10).

To 'enter and search' sounds like an order to break-in to me, rather than use a key. And i think it was probably two other detectives who went to 37SR that evening, not the ones DV spoke to.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

'Two plainclothes detectives were immediately sent to 'enter and search' 37 Shorrolds Road. Nothing of apparent relevance was found, but a constable was posted on guard duty outside' (AS book page 10).

To 'enter and search' sounds like an order to break-in to me, rather than use a key. And i think it was probably two other detectives who went to 37SR that evening, not the ones DV spoke to.

I'm fairly sure "enter and search" just means go inside by whatever means are necessary. If you had the key, you'd use it; if not, break the door down. Also, on AS page 12 it says, "The two detectives who had been to Shorrolds Roads had just received Johnstone's first order, and asked [Paul] Lamplugh to go with them to Susannah's ... flat."

That is DC Steve Hill and DC Mick Jones. Yet DV spoke to Mick Jones and he said they never went to 37SR that night. They were apparently the only two CID staff on duty. From DVs book:

‘Okay, at what point did you go to 37 Shorrolds Road...and check that out?’ Mick said nothing; he looked a little confused.
‘Do you remember going there, to the house for sale?’ I pressed the question again. Mick frowned.
‘Er… I didn’t. I never went there.’
‘You never went to the address?’
‘I never went to that address.’

They assumed MG had been inside the property, but it looks like he hadn't been. The two detectives didn't go inside. It's not clear that anybody did until the next morning, when the keys were used to get in.

 

[Terryb808]

It's interesting that AS's book claims two detectives went into 37SR on Monday night, *before* Suzy's apartment was searched or her car was found. Yet DV spoke to the detectives, and they say they didn't go into 37SR that night because they assumed MG had done so. MG, for his part, apparently only looked outside, because he didn't have the keys.

Police were able to enter the house the next morning without breaking the door down, suggesting the keys had been found by then.

What a mess.

Or the owner had been contacted and highlighted who he had given a spare set of keys to.

 

[Terryb808]

According to DV, MG didn't go inside 37SR; he just looked around outside. MG supposedly never had the keys. Whether DV is correct about that or not, I don't know.

I've just started reading AS's book, and what I found notable is that MG spoke to HR when he went to 37SR looking for Suzy. If MG spoke to HR about what he had seen, we can reasonably assume it wasn't MG that HR had seen.

MG told the police during his initial 6:45PM phone call that HR had seen a woman bundled into a car. It was this detail that apparently made the police take Suzy's disappearance so seriously. The detail about the woman being bundled into the car was an exaggeration, but it's not entirely clear WHOSE exaggeration it was--HR's when he spoke to MG, or MG's when he spoke to the police.

It’s very likely that DL had a hand in this escalation via MG.

 

[Terryb808]

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BPR does lead to FPR. Based on my estimate of where BW was when she saw what she believed to be Suzy's car, she would have been close to Wardo Avenue with Suzy heading north--away from BPR, but towards 123SR and potentially 37SR.

Being close to Wardo Ave is interesting. A researcher I talked to was convinced SJL was buried in a property on Wardo Ave.
He didn’t elaborate, but the Kipper that lived on Shorrolds Road came from Wardo Ave I believe.
Maybe he thought that he had access to both properties?

 

[WiseOwl]

I'm fairly sure "enter and search" just means go inside by whatever means are necessary. If you had the key, you'd use it; if not, break the door down. Also, on AS page 12 it says, "The two detectives who had been to Shorrolds Roads had just received Johnstone's first order, and asked [Paul] Lamplugh to go with them to Susannah's ... flat."

That is DC Steve Hill and DC Mick Jones. Yet DV spoke to Mick Jones and he said they never went to 37SR that night. They were apparently the only two CID staff on duty. From DVs book:

‘Okay, at what point did you go to 37 Shorrolds Road...and check that out?’ Mick said nothing; he looked a little confused.
‘Do you remember going there, to the house for sale?’ I pressed the question again. Mick frowned.
‘Er… I didn’t. I never went there.’
‘You never went to the address?’
‘I never went to that address.’

They assumed MG had been inside the property, but it looks like he hadn't been. The two detectives didn't go inside. It's not clear that anybody did until the next morning, when the keys were used to get in.

This just highlights the problems with the case, one thing seems to contradict another.

AS book was always the definitive one about Suzy, but DV's has come along and certain things you would believe to be true in AS book are challenged by what DV found out. The question is, why would there be misinformation in AS book when his info came from the police investigation and also from speaking to some of the officers on the case? Also, his book was published in 1988 so what had happened to Suzy would be pretty fresh in everyone's mind.

DV did a remarkable job in tracing some of the people involved in Suzy's case, seeing as he interviewed them some 30-odd years after she had disappeared. It's just that his book seems to poke holes in some people's belief as to what happened at the time. AL changed his story of the Friday night and said it never happened, MG could not remember about the keys, he also said he had no idea where SF was, yet when DV found her she said she had just come of the phone to MG. NB originally said he had stayed up late talking to Suzy the night before she vanished, now he says he doesn't remember speaking to her at all. Then we have the two detectives denying they went to 37SR - it just goes on.

It's difficult to know what to believe, in either book.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Or the owner had been contacted and highlighted who he had given a spare set of keys to.

Very possible, although seemingly not something DV ever considered. A second set of keys from somewhere other than Sturgis could make sense. Of course a second set of key would strongly suggest Suzy did take the Sturgis set.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

It’s very likely that DL had a hand in this escalation via MG.

HR's version of what he saw has been questioned because he "lied" about the woman being bundled into a car. But was that really HR's lie, or did MG exaggerate what HR had said to get the police to take it more seriously?

MG being encouraged by DL to do something like that would, sadly, not be at all surprising at this point.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Being close to Wardo Ave is interesting. A researcher I talked to was convinced SJL was buried in a property on Wardo Ave.
He didn’t elaborate, but the Kipper that lived on Shorrolds Road came from Wardo Ave I believe.
Maybe he thought that he had access to both properties?

I don't know about Suzy being buried there (anything's possible!) but I worked out in a previous post that the reconstructions of the BW sighting were filmed at or just north of Wardo Avenue:

UK - UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

What has always surprised me about Suzy's car is if someone other than Suzy had left it there then why Stevenage Road? It seemed to be at the time (and probably still is) a busy residential street with plenty of people about so why would anyone choose to dump it there, especially in the middle...

www.websleuths.com

Google Maps

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[WiseOwl]

Being close to Wardo Ave is interesting. A researcher I talked to was convinced SJL was buried in a property on Wardo Ave.
He didn’t elaborate, but the Kipper that lived on Shorrolds Road came from Wardo Ave I believe.
Maybe he thought that he had access to both properties?

You are referring to JH i presume? There are a lot of remarkable coincidences regarding him and Suzy.

Yes he lived on Wardo Avenue and moved to Shorrolds Road, only a few doors away from 37 i believe.

 

[WestLondoner]

The interesting thing about the 37SR theory is how fast it took hold. SJL is taken on Monday afternoon and by Tuesday morning the police are organising a press conference in their canteen at 2pm to announce that SJL was seen at 37SR. This is before they've taken a single witness statement. The basis of the claim is not HR but the police themselves, who've decided this was SJL.

As the young people say, WTAF? The excuse is that this was urgent and they had to get their appeal out there but what about the risk you appeal for witnesses to something that didn't happen? The result would then be 2 weeks of silence which is what did happen.

Anything based on what the police wrote down is IMHO suspect because they were all into the 37SR assumption before they'd checked any detail at all. If they'd found that actually they had the keys all along, would they admit it?

 

[Eastend Eagle]

This just highlights the problems with the case, one thing seems to contradict another.

AS book was always the definitive one about Suzy, but DV's has come along and certain things you would believe to be true in AS book are challenged by what DV found out. The question is, why would there be misinformation in AS book when his info came from the police investigation and also from speaking to some of the officers on the case? Also, his book was published in 1988 so what had happened to Suzy would be pretty fresh in everyone's mind.

DV did a remarkable job in tracing some of the people involved in Suzy's case, seeing as he interviewed them some 30-odd years after she had disappeared. It's just that his book seems to poke holes in some people's belief as to what happened at the time. AL changed his story of the Friday night and said it never happened, MG could not remember about the keys, he also said he had no idea where SF was, yet when DV found her she said she had just come of the phone to MG. NB originally said he had stayed up late talking to Suzy the night before she vanished, now he says he doesn't remember speaking to her at all. Then we have the two detectives denying they went to 37SR - it just goes on.

It's difficult to know what to believe, in either book.

MG is a King of BS
IMHO

 

[Eastend Eagle]

DV contacted all of SJL's colleagues who were working at Sturgis that Monday with the exception of the temporary secretary KR. Does anyone out there have any knowledge of what became of her?

 

[Terryb808]

The interesting thing about the 37SR theory is how fast it took hold. SJL is taken on Monday afternoon and by Tuesday morning the police are organising a press conference in their canteen at 2pm to announce that SJL was seen at 37SR. This is before they've taken a single witness statement. The basis of the claim is not HR but the police themselves, who've decided this was SJL.

As the young people say, WTAF? The excuse is that this was urgent and they had to get their appeal out there but what about the risk you appeal for witnesses to something that didn't happen? The result would then be 2 weeks of silence which is what did happen.

Anything based on what the police wrote down is IMHO suspect because they were all into the 37SR assumption before they'd checked any detail at all. If they'd found that actually they had the keys all along, would they admit it?

I think not, too embarrassed to admit they got the whole thing wrong, still doing it well over 30 years later.

 

[Salah11]

DV contacted all of SJL's colleagues who were working at Sturgis that Monday with the exception of the temporary secretary KR. Does anyone out there have any knowledge of what became of her?

That’s my big issue with the book is DV makes so many people look suspicious. Even her work colleagues it feels like reading his book are covering up something. It’s super frustrating imo

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

The interesting thing about the 37SR theory is how fast it took hold. SJL is taken on Monday afternoon and by Tuesday morning the police are organising a press conference in their canteen at 2pm to announce that SJL was seen at 37SR. This is before they've taken a single witness statement. The basis of the claim is not HR but the police themselves, who've decided this was SJL.

As the young people say, WTAF? The excuse is that this was urgent and they had to get their appeal out there but what about the risk you appeal for witnesses to something that didn't happen? The result would then be 2 weeks of silence which is what did happen.

Anything based on what the police wrote down is IMHO suspect because they were all into the 37SR assumption before they'd checked any detail at all. If they'd found that actually they had the keys all along, would they admit it?

The police can certainly be criticized for making assumptions and for jumping the gun, but in this case it seems to have been a reasonable assumption at the time of the initial press conference.

Suzy's diary said she would be meeting Mr. Kipper at 12:45PM outside 37SR. The neighbour, HR, told MG he had seen a man and woman outside--and seemingly looking at--37SR at the time Suzy's diary indicated she would be there. And MG's initial report to the police told them what HR had (apparently) told him. That was what the police thought they knew at the time.

As it stands, we can't even be sure HR was wrong. Or right. Or lying. Or mistaken. Or high as a kite on drugs and imagining things. We just don't know, and likely never will.

The forensics team was already inside 37SR on the morning of the 29th, *before* the first press conference that afternoon. So they already had access to the house. The door wasn't damaged, meaning they presumably must have had a key. Suzy was supposedly seen taking the key off the rack at Sturgis. MG supposedly hadn't been inside 37SR because he didn't have the key.

So where did the police get the key from?!? If they said it was missing when they had actually been given it by someone at Sturgis, they ran the risk that the person who gave it to them would contradict their story. Yet nobody has ever come forward, to my knowledge, and claimed to have found the key at Sturgis or anywhere else.

Either being given a spare set of keys by the homeowner, or finding the Sturgis fob inside Suzy's car and withholding that information for some reason, makes the most sense to me.

I could understand the police not wanting to admit they had made a mistake, such as announcing the key was missing when it wasn't. But given that the forensics team was inside the house on Tuesday morning, and the first press conference was on Tuesday afternoon, it would be truly bizarre to *mistakenly* announce that the key was missing *after* they had already used it.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

That’s my big issue with the book is DV makes so many people look suspicious. Even her work colleagues it feels like reading his book are covering up something. It’s super frustrating imo

But if DV is quoting them verbatim (they could sue him if he isn't!), and they really are lying--such as MG saying he had no contact information for SF--or withholding information, then it's not DV's fault they look suspicious. They're making themselves look that way. For whatever reason.

 

[WiseOwl]

The police can certainly be criticized for making assumptions and for jumping the gun, but in this case it seems to have been a reasonable assumption at the time of the initial press conference.

Suzy's diary said she would be meeting Mr. Kipper at 12:45PM outside 37SR. The neighbour, HR, told MG he had seen a man and woman outside--and seemingly looking at--37SR at the time Suzy's diary indicated she would be there. And MG's initial report to the police told them what HR had (apparently) told him. That was what the police thought they knew at the time.

As it stands, we can't even be sure HR was wrong. Or right. Or lying. Or mistaken. Or high as a kite on drugs and imagining things. We just don't know, and likely never will.

The forensics team was already inside 37SR on the morning of the 29th, *before* the first press conference that afternoon. So they already had access to the house. The door wasn't damaged, meaning they presumably must have had a key. Suzy was supposedly seen taking the key off the rack at Sturgis. MG supposedly hadn't been inside 37SR because he didn't have the key.

So where did the police get the key from?!? If they said it was missing when they had actually been given it by someone at Sturgis, they ran the risk that the person who gave it to them would contradict their story. Yet nobody has ever come forward, to my knowledge, and claimed to have found the key at Sturgis or anywhere else.

Either being given a spare set of keys by the homeowner, or finding the Sturgis fob inside Suzy's car and withholding that information for some reason, makes the most sense to me.

I could understand the police not wanting to admit they had made a mistake, such as announcing the key was missing when it wasn't. But given that the forensics team was inside the house on Tuesday morning, and the first press conference was on Tuesday afternoon, it would be truly bizarre to *mistakenly* announce that the key was missing *after* they had already used it.

DSI Carter tells Sue Cook on the Crimewatch show that Suzy's keys still haven't been found as he holds up the distinctive yellow Sturgis fob. Cook also mentions that the property details are still missing. The show was aired in October 1986, the police are saying they have never found the keys 3 months after Suzy had gone missing.

So, if they didn't enter the property via a spare key then the only other way was to break in. Do we know for sure that the door wasn't damaged in any way?

Also, looking at the front window of 37SR in the Crimewatch show, there looks to be a part of the window (at the top) that opens - obviously from the inside. However, if you banged in the right place on these type of windows hard enough, it would shake them until the part of the window that opened would come loose and you could get your fingers underneath and open it. There wouldn't be any damage to the window either. Even more useful there appears to be a four foot wall right outside the property, making it fairly easy for someone to stand on this and reach the window comfortably. So maybe the police entered this way? They would certainly know how to use this technique to open a window and get inside a property.

 

[Salah11]

Well if she printed out the property details and they were missing that points to a legitimate viewing as she took the details when she got out of the car to show the property.

She would if hardly of gone to the POW pub and taken the property details inside to pick up her lost items. They would of still been in the car when it was found.