UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
So you believe it’s somebody she knew?

Why wouldn’t she just do that after work or actually wait until her lunch break?!


I was born in 1986 so maybe I just can not comprehend the differences back then but I just Not Understand why you would go to all that trouble to make up a fake appointment when she would of had a lunch break.
Another question that raises to me at least, if the diary entry is kosha when was the appointment made, did she receive an appointment that morning ? did anyone in the office confirm she received a call, how were they handled back then, did she have a direct line of did it go to a receptionist who connected it through?
 
The people who say they saw a couple do not all agree about the time. It's only HR who's categorical, but his sighting did not ID SJL. He said he heard them coming out of the house, which they did not. There is no forensic trace, it would have been foolish, and SJL may not even have had the keys. HR described Mr Kipper as late 20s to early 30s and slim but later IDed the Antwerp BMW owner as Mr Kipper even though he was 44 and podgy. HR has no idea what he saw essentially.

This leaves ND1 and JI, who were unsure about the time between 12 and 4. ND1's man is quite different to HR's who is in turn quite different to JI's, who saw a man with a suntan. These people could perfectly well have been identifying MG. ND2 turned up only later and repeated the reconstruction without adding anything.

You also have to consider what the chances are of seeing a man and woman in a London street. They aren't zero. Why would one assume these sightings are all of the same person?


This is true but it would have been at the rough time that Suzy would have been showing Mr Kipper the property. So of course the police went with the natural assumption that it was her as it fits the time frame.

I mean the only known fact is at some point she left the office. Even the timing on that is questionable but apart from a woman seen at SR there is no other confirmed sightings apart from her friend claiming she saw her in a car with a man driving towards Hammersmith.
 
Last edited:
That’s a helpful response, DV outlined the same in his book, I can’t recall AS clarifying this in his book.
DV gave a reasonable explanation as to why SJL used this name and it makes sense. One of the Herring brothers lived at 55 Shorrolds Road and had recently moved from Wardo Ave.
DV also interviewed Wendy Jones, he made her out to be an unreliable witness. I understand why, it just didn’t fit with his narrative.
DV didn’t interview Barbara Whitfield, again I think he’d made his mind up and probably saw her as irrelevant.
That IMO is an error, BW is the only witness that actually knew SJL, and was part of the “Putney Set” as SJL’s mother called them.
She (again IMO) places SJL travelling along the Fulham Palace Road at 2.45pm and I feel she was right.
There are many explanations on the internet as to what happens after death, as you have pointed out the process is gross and effectively starts the minute death occurs.
The area around Gallows Bridge is (according to the Canal & River Trust) part of the river Brent, and is far deeper that a normal canal.
Depending on what material is used (in the suitcase) and any weight added it may not surface.
One thing is certain and that is we’re very unlikely to find SJL.
Having considered all that we do know I feel the former Met officer Jim D is right, but will never be able to prove it
I’m fairly new to this, can you recap what Jim D thinks about the case?
 
So you believe it’s somebody she knew?

Why wouldn’t she just do that after work or actually wait until her lunch break?!


I was born in 1986 so maybe I just can not comprehend the differences back then but I just Not Understand why you would go to all that trouble to make up a fake appointment when she would of had a lunch break.
According to DV Suzy wasn’t best pleased that Monday,She’d lost an argument over a sale and previously been told she couldn’t have time off to attend her mother’s birthday lunch.
That Monday she’d planned to have lunch with PSS & TS, that was apparently cancelled and moved to Tuesday.
She wasn’t a shrinking violet and wouldn’t have taken this well.
She wanted to be out that lunchtime and with the big boss virtually next door at lunch with MG, she needed an excuse.
I don’t honestly think Suzy would have risked anything to meet JC, so the person she did meet must have been far more important than him.
I can’t believe the police didn’t consider the Kipper variant Skipper, you can see it written on one of the whiteboards in the reconstruction.
The question is, “did they take this seriously “?
 
100% - it is wholly incredible that anyone would make such an appointment and thereby inform the police exactly where to look for the forensics. And yet the police believed HR when he said he heard a door close and saw 2 people coming out of 37. So they think he did exactly that.

I'm aware there are issues with the timing of MG's visit, but if we buy the idea that MG had another set of keys then the only person who could have emerged from 37SR is MG. Kipper and SJL would not have done so whether she had the keys or not.

Alternatively, MG didn't emerge. MG and SF went to the front door, knocked, got no response - so they step back from the property and look up at it hoping to see signs of someone inside. You can actually see them doing this in the reconstruction.

But I don't think there is any suggestion MG had a second set of keys, is there? AS's book doesn't suggest that, and DV's goes a step further, making it clear DV doesn't think MG went into the house at all.

A lack of forensic evidence doesn't absolutely guarantee Suzy never went into the house. If all she did was open the front door, walk around a bit, and then come back out, trace evidence could be minimal or non-existent; to quote an old saying, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. On tv and in movies every person leaves behind copious trace evidence everywhere they go. But in real life it's not always that simple.

MG supposedly got his initial information about the man and woman at Shorrolds, which he reported to the police at 6:45PM, *from* HR. How could HR have been talking about having seen MG and SF when he was actually telling the story to MG and SF? It is possible that other witnesses saw MG and SF, but HR can't have done.

HR reported seeing a man and a woman at 37SR at around 12:45-1:00PM. He told this to MG before anyone knew Suzy was missing and before the police had even been called. He appears to have had no reason--or any knowledge of the situation that would have allowed him--to make it up.

Having now read AS's book, I think HR has been treated somewhat unfairly. The first version of his story, the one he told MG, supposedly included the woman being bundled into a car, which was later found to be at best an exaggeration and at worst an outright lie. But it's not at all clear what HR actually said to MG, or even if it was HR or MG who exaggerated the story to begin with.

HR apparently told a similar but less embellished story to the police; again, who originally embellished the story, him or MG? If it was MG, had someone (DL, whom MG had already spoken to before calling the police?) encouraged him to embellish the story hoping the police would take the situation more seriously?

You also say HR positively identified the Belgian Mr. Kiper as the man he saw in Shorrolds. But according to AS's book, all he could ever say was that the man he saw *could* have been Kiper, not that it definitely was. HR had apparently been given an expenses-paid trip to Belgium by a newspaper to look at Kiper, so it's hard to know if his answer was even genuine, or just an attempt to appease his benefactors.
 
I have always wondered if there was the possibility that Suzy's car was parked twice that day in Stevenage Road. We know that when the car was found at 10pm that the handbrake was off and the driver's side door unlocked, but how do we know this was the case at 12.45?

Maybe Suzy was meeting up with someone that lunchtime, and had made up the 37SR appointment in her diary as a subterfuge. She arranges to meet at Stevenage Road, and parks her car overlapping the entrance to the Mahon's garage. There were two workmen laying pipes that day so possibly they had taken up some of the parking spaces in the road, leaving Suzy having to park the way she did. She then leaves her car to meet whoever (handbrake on & driver's door locked), and when WJ leaves her home at 12.45 she notices the car parked near to the garage.

On the Crimewatch reconstruction, WJ returns home around 3.30 and notices the car is still there. However, she has been gone for nearly 3 hours, so possibly the car had gone and then been returned during that time. So, could Suzy and mystery man have returned to the car sometime after 12.45? They then drive away and whatever became of Suzy happened after that. Then, mystery man drives her car back to Stevenage Road at sometime before 3.30, parks the car where it was previously, departs in a hurry leaving the handbrake off and the driver's door unlocked - forgetting or not aware of Suzy's purse in the door pocket.

WJ returns from her shopping expedition and sees the car parked over the driveway, as if it had never moved. LM returns home from work at 5.15 and the car is still there, then of course it is located just after 10.00 that night.

Who Suzy would be meeting and why Stevenage Road i don't know, but it might explain the various sightings of the car that day.

I've outlined a similar possible scenario myself, asking whether the car could have been moved and then put back in the same place. The strange way it was parked has always been the sticking point, because why park it the same strange way twice?

The only possible explanation I could come up with was either another car being parked in front of it, or some other obstacle being in front of it, leaving no room for Suzy's car to be pulled further forwards.

If Suzy's car and "Kipper's" car were being used alternately, it's possible they were both always parked in the same place relative to each other: Kipper's in front, Suzy's behind, overhanging the garage. It's not impossible that two different vehicles were coming and going from Stevenage Road during the course of the afternoon, but due to luck or timing only Suzy's was ever noticed.
 
If it’s somebody Suzy knew why would they want to kill her?

JC makes sense in that respect. I know she had two people she was In business with her who have seemingly distanced themselves from the entire mess but I still can not imagine that business exchange going so far south they would murder over it.

Moo
 
If it’s somebody Suzy knew why would they want to kill her?

JC makes sense in that respect. I know she had two people she was In business with her who have seemingly distanced themselves from the entire mess but I still can not imagine that business exchange going so far south they would murder over it.

Moo
Revenge of a jilted lover?

Apparently, Suzy had a few.
 
Curiously, AS and DV appear to be using different names for the acting landlord of the PoW who reported finding Suzy's chequebook and diary. AS calls him KH; DV calls him CV, which seems to be the name most people on here are familiar with.

It's not uncommon for writers to change names, but I wonder which name is correct. And if this name was changed, I wonder how many others were also.
 
Last edited:
Curiously, AS and DV appear to be using different names for the acting landlord of the PoW who reported finding Suzy's chequebook and diary. AS calls him Kenneth Heminsley; DV calls him Clive Vole, which seems to be the name most people on here are familiar with.

It's not uncommon for writers to change names, but I wonder which name is correct. And if this name was changed, I wonder how many others were also.
AS quoted the correct names, DV changed them in his book presumably because of the risk of libel.
We generally any use initials, if you don’t your public posts get pulled and in some cases you can receive a ban.
 
AS quoted the correct names, DV changed them in his book presumably because of the risk of libel.
We generally any use initials, if you don’t your public posts get pulled and in some cases you can receive a ban.

You're right, I edited my post. Thanks, I should have realised. If you could edit the quote of my post I would be very grateful.

AS's theory about what happened to Suzy, at the end of his book, sounds very plausible. Though I'd switch around where Suzy went to first: 123SR to 37SR, rather than 37SR to 123SR. AS believes HR must have been about 15 minutes LATE with his timing, believing Suzy was at 37SR at 12:45 rather than 1:00PM. But if Suzy met "Kipper" outside 123SR, being at 37SR at 1:00PM actually makes more sense and gives plenty of time to get there.
 
You're right, I edited my post. Thanks, I should have realised. If you could edit the quote of my post I would be very grateful.

AS's theory about what happened to Suzy, at the end of his book, sounds very plausible. Though I'd switch around where Suzy went to first: 123SR to 37SR, rather than 37SR to 123SR. AS believes HR must have been about 15 minutes LATE with his timing, believing Suzy was at 37SR at 12:45 rather than 1:00PM. But if Suzy met "Kipper" outside 123SR, being at 37SR at 1:00PM actually makes more sense and gives plenty of time to get there.
AS then goes on to say that even this theory has numerous flaws in it, it does not explain the discrepancies over the sightings of Suzy in Shorrolds Road and her car in Stevenage Road.

He even mentions the workmen, BC & CC, laying gas pipes in SR close to where the car was found. Then there was the taxi driver's fare, the James Galway lookalike, who mentioned the 'right ruck' but BC & CC, who were closer to the scene, saw and heard nothing.

It looks as if the workmen were maybe closer to where Suzy's car was parked than we thought.
 
DV also refers to JD as "Albert Clyne", which someone here pointed out is an anagram of "clearly bent".
 
The temporary secretary was merely there to make the fake diary entry IMO
What part of Australia was she from by the way, somewhere untraceable?

Do we know anything at all about the temporary secretary, her age for example?
 
I'm not convinced it was planned. Even someone like JC didn't seem to particularly plan his attacks.

A rendezvous gone wrong is far more likely, regardless of what the meeting was about.
This is what I think happened, also. I remember when this case happened. It was very big news at the time.

I think she put a fake appointment in the diary and then went off to meet someone she knew and trusted, probably planning to be back in the office within an hour or so, but the situation went downhill within that time frame.

I find the 'POW' theory intriguing, and I don't rule it out, but there are a lot of 'ifs' involved.

If she actually went there
If CV was alone
If CV was a sexual predator etc.

I seem to recall reading that her DNA was found in JCs Ford Sierra. Does anyone know if this is true ? If so, surely it shoots him to the top of the suspect list ?
 
This is what I think happened, also. I remember when this case happened. It was very big news at the time.

I think she put a fake appointment in the diary and then went off to meet someone she knew and trusted, probably planning to be back in the office within an hour or so, but the situation went downhill within that time frame.

I find the 'POW' theory intriguing, and I don't rule it out, but there are a lot of 'ifs' involved.

If she actually went there
If CV was alone
If CV was a sexual predator etc.

I seem to recall reading that her DNA was found in JCs Ford Sierra. Does anyone know if this is true ? If so, surely it shoots him to the top of the suspect list ?
No her DNA wasn’t in the Ford Sierra, only a partial match which also partially matched Sandra Court (who IMO was in the car).
If they’d have found a full DNA match to Suzy in that car the Met would have had it in the media everywhere.
 
I just noticed there is a crime 4 documentary Suzy Lamplugh in the footsteps of killers. Is it recent?
 
I just noticed there is a crime 4 documentary Suzy Lamplugh in the footsteps of killers. Is it recent?
The David Wilson Doc came out sometime ago, if it’s this one it followed the “JC did it” line.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
59
Guests online
3,228
Total visitors
3,287

Forum statistics

Threads
604,567
Messages
18,173,539
Members
232,677
Latest member
Amakur
Back
Top