UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[Terryb808]

The movement of suzy's car is a strange one .A lone perpetrator previously unknown to suzy would not move her car unless she was threatened with a weapon and shoved over to passenger side , from drivers seat and perp drove off . In this scenario chances of suzy being found are slim to none especially after the passage of time .
While this is not unheard of ,it is very opportunistic and would have entailed being in the right place at the right time ,no witnesses that I have seen report anyone lurking around the Sturgis office or Whittingstall Road .

The red roses delivered to the office for suzy has the sender ever come forward or is this another lie entangled with the truth . If fact ? was this a strange occurrence or would Suzy get flowers delivered to her home /Workplace sporadically/regularly from admirers ?.I personally don't see this delivery as out of place unless it had never happened before . Flower deliveries have waned a little with the advancement of technology but would have been a regular occurrence in the 80s for a glamorous lady .

KH my thoughts on a temp landlord: if a long standing member of staff . Was he having an affair with suzy ? Was he implicated by helping the murderer ? Was he married / engaged ? Was his Wife friendly with suzy ? Did he ring suzy about 'finding " her diary? Was he in charge on the Friday? Suzy had dinner date on the Friday , .Did her date go to the PoW with her ?,How long was KH temping for ?

I had originally asked did Suzy’s colleagues not raise the alarm when she failed to return to work . I researched and they did ,abet much later in the evening.,They rang DL and law enforcement seemed be contacted quickly from what I read . So Suzy would have had to be gotten rid of quickly . Was she placed in one of the b&b rooms ?Was the alleged disposed of mattress located by investigators ? Why was the PoW not more throughly searched ? Was local police on the payroll to "allow " lock ins ? The turning of a blind eye to illegal goings on ? Was a local inspector a patron of the PoW and friendly with barstaff /local patrons ? Did any of the "questioned " have family in Law enforcement?

How true is the report of the blowfly infestation at the PoW ? I fail to see if this is the case why the PoW was not investigated more . These insects only come for dead flesh . A woman has gone missing and the place she very frequently visited, is infested with the "death" fly and not one patron reports a suspicion .

I’ve suggested this before to those interested in this case.
Three books provide an insight (and answers to most people’s questions), they are:

The Suzy Lamplugh Story by Andrew Stephen, this is only available used in paper form. It dates back to 1987 and the author had access to police files.

Finding Suzy by David Videcette, this is the most recent and provides a completely different take on Suzy’s disappearance.

Prime Suspect by Christopher Berry Dee, this book provides an insight into John Cannan. It gives you an idea as to why the police have him as their one and only suspect.

Sadly there’s a lot of inaccuracy in the media and this is misleading. Once you have all the basic info in place you can for a narrative you believe to be what actually happened.

IMO the perpetrator disposed of Suzy’s body well away from Fulham, this means that it’s unlikely that she’ll ever be found.

With DV’s book AL (Suzys

The movement of suzy's car is a strange one .A lone perpetrator previously unknown to suzy would not move her car unless she was threatened with a weapon and shoved over to passenger side , from drivers seat and perp drove off . In this scenario chances of suzy being found are slim to none especially after the passage of time .
While this is not unheard of ,it is very opportunistic and would have entailed being in the right place at the right time ,no witnesses that I have seen report anyone lurking around the Sturgis office or Whittingstall Road .

The red roses delivered to the office for suzy has the sender ever come forward or is this another lie entangled with the truth . If fact ? was this a strange occurrence or would Suzy get flowers delivered to her home /Workplace sporadically/regularly from admirers ?.I personally don't see this delivery as out of place unless it had never happened before . Flower deliveries have waned a little with the advancement of technology but would have been a regular occurrence in the 80s for a glamorous lady .

KH my thoughts on a temp landlord: if a long standing member of staff . Was he having an affair with suzy ? Was he implicated by helping the murderer ? Was he married / engaged ? Was his Wife friendly with suzy ? Did he ring suzy about 'finding " her diary? Was he in charge on the Friday? Suzy had dinner date on the Friday , .Did her date go to the PoW with her ?,How long was KH temping for ?

I had originally asked did Suzy’s colleagues not raise the alarm when she failed to return to work . I researched and they did ,abet much later in the evening.,They rang DL and law enforcement seemed be contacted quickly from what I read . So Suzy would have had to be gotten rid of quickly . Was she placed in one of the b&b rooms ?Was the alleged disposed of mattress located by investigators ? Why was the PoW not more throughly searched ? Was local police on the payroll to "allow " lock ins ? The turning of a blind eye to illegal goings on ? Was a local inspector a patron of the PoW and friendly with barstaff /local patrons ? Did any of the "questioned " have family in Law enforcement?

How true is the report of the blowfly infestation at the PoW ? I fail to see if this is the case why the PoW was not investigated more . These insects only come for dead flesh . A woman has gone missing and the place she very frequently visited, is infested with the "death" fly and not one patron reports a suspicion .

I’ve posted this before, it’s my recommended reading list for those interested in this case.

The Suzy Lamplugh Story by Andrew Stephen, this is the oldest and was published in 1987. He had access to police files and this should provide the most accurate account.
It’s not influenced by the later media obsession with John Cannan because he’d not appeared on the police radar yet.

Finding Suzy by David Videsette, this is the most recent and follows a completely different narrative. While he doesn’t find Suzy, he does open up other areas to investigate.

Prime Suspect by Christopher Berry Dee, this focuses on John Cannan and provides an insight into why he’s the polices one and only suspect.

These three books will answer most of the questions people have about this case. From then on you can build your own narrative on what actually happened.

IMO the perpetrator disposed of Suzy’s body well away from Fulham. This would mean that the chances of her being found are extremely slim.

In DV’s book he interviewed AL Suzy’s last boyfriend, before storming off he said “you’ll never find her, no one will”.
This is a haunting statement and one I found particularly interesting, however, when you take the whole interview into account you can see why he said it.

 

[WiseOwl]

Have the times been cross checked with Suzy’s colleague whom visited the bank . The bank should've had an exact time transaction was made ,which would narrow times and if you calculate estimate time ,distance, speed from bank to office by car or by walking depending on mode of transport used ,route taken ,it would at least give a more accurate time of when colleague returned or what time they left the bank

I have read Sturgis staff were not given a lunch hour per se ,Could times been originally stated as different as colleague took some time to themselves as well as errand to the bank ? Even in a situation like Suzy’s disappearance ,people worry about themselves and prehaps losing their job .

I don't know about the Sturgis staff i'm afraid, i am taking my evidence from AS's book about the two women who saw Suzy's car parked at 12.45 that day.

As one of the women was the owner (with her husband) of the garage in which the car was overlapping the driveway to, i'm inclined to go with this evidence of proof that the car was indeed there at 12.45 that day.

There were other sightings of the car parked in the same spot throughout the day as well.

 

[RichardKimble]

I don't know about the Sturgis staff i'm afraid, i am taking my evidence from AS's book about the two women who saw Suzy's car parked at 12.45 that day.

As one of the women was the owner (with her husband) of the garage in which the car was overlapping the driveway to, i'm inclined to go with this evidence of proof that the car was indeed there at 12.45 that day.

There were other sightings of the car parked in the same spot throughout the day as well.

BW said she saw SJL in her car in the afternoon, bit of a coincidence to then have someone park the car across the driveway again.

 

[su5ie]

I don't know about the Sturgis staff i'm afraid, i am taking my evidence from AS's book about the two women who saw Suzy's car parked at 12.45 that day.

As one of the women was the owner (with her husband) of the garage in which the car was overlapping the driveway to, i'm inclined to go with this evidence of proof that the car was indeed there at 12.45 that day.

There were other sightings of the car parked in the same spot throughout the day as well.

Thank you for your reply. The time of the car being parked over lapping the garage like you I don't doubt .the time I doubt is what time suzy left the office.

In order for time sturgis colleague states suzie left the office 12.35 /40 . Suzy had to cross the road .locate her car that she didn't park . Either abducted straight away but still you would have to have taken even 30 seconds to open car and bundle someone in and car drove by lone kidnapper to Stevenage Road ,not have encountered any traffic ,traffic lights etc .abandon car (reasonably parked abet overlapping garage) get suzy out of car without being seen ,into another car or premises all in 5 / 10 mins . ( Why not drive to a remote area and abandon car there or beside a body of water to make it look like sucide )Witness ,wife of garage owner sees car at 12.45 ,she had to have missed whomever parked the car by seconds

Even if colleague was out by 10 /15 mins in timings and arrived back in office at 12 .15 /20 suzy was on the phone , she had to hang up ,had to grab purse , her own keys ,document from drawer, keys for 37 for Stevenage Road. Almost impossible imo or very precise planning. Perp would have to know when colleague arrived back ,when suzy was leaving and the exact route and what if suzy got delayed by her boss or any other colleague .

In my mind she was on the phone to the perp(did anyone overhear her conversation) and was leaving to meet them .
Appointment with Mr kipper was scribbled in haste in order to explain leaving office .Was Mr kipper a fictional character from a programme or book ?

The hypothesis that suzy was abducted by anyone other than a person known to her ,however well or long known that person may be is anyone's guess ,but perpetrator definitely had a good knowledge of the area and knew exactly where her car was and what time she stepped foot outside the office .

A stakeout of sorts .Road was straight not a side street or back avenue. Suzy would have seen a stranger acting shifty at her car . She doesn't strike me as a non observing person .She was secretive she was used to being covert and sussing out a situation in order to keep people from knowing all the different threads of her life .Even when drunk it's not reported that's she blabbed about the different pockets of her lifestyle. So in theory she was used to watching her back imo

 

[su5ie]

These are just alternative reasonings to why Suzy may have wrote Mr kipper in the work diary . I particularly am drawn to prehaps Suzy t using it in a slang reference and remembered it being used quite frequently in the 80s to describe someone who is easily fooled or who has had the wool pulled over their eyes or someone who fell for a scam

Jeeves in the Offing - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[su5ie]

I’ve suggested this before to those interested in this case.
Three books provide an insight (and answers to most people’s questions), they are:

The Suzy Lamplugh Story by Andrew Stephen, this is only available used in paper form. It dates back to 1987 and the author had access to police files.

Finding Suzy by David Videcette, this is the most recent and provides a completely different take on Suzy’s disappearance.

Prime Suspect by Christopher Berry Dee, this book provides an insight into John Cannan. It gives you an idea as to why the police have him as their one and only suspect.

Sadly there’s a lot of inaccuracy in the media and this is misleading. Once you have all the basic info in place you can for a narrative you believe to be what actually happened.

IMO the perpetrator disposed of Suzy’s body well away from Fulham, this means that it’s unlikely that she’ll ever be found.

With DV’s book AL (Suzys

I’ve posted this before, it’s my recommended reading list for those interested in this case.

The Suzy Lamplugh Story by Andrew Stephen, this is the oldest and was published in 1987. He had access to police files and this should provide the most accurate account.
It’s not influenced by the later media obsession with John Cannan because he’d not appeared on the police radar yet.

Finding Suzy by David Videsette, this is the most recent and follows a completely different narrative. While he doesn’t find Suzy, he does open up other areas to investigate.

Prime Suspect by Christopher Berry Dee, this focuses on John Cannan and provides an insight into why he’s the polices one and only suspect.

These three books will answer most of the questions people have about this case. From then on you can build your own narrative on what actually happened.

IMO the perpetrator disposed of Suzy’s body well away from Fulham. This would mean that the chances of her being found are extremely slim.

In DV’s book he interviewed AL Suzy’s last boyfriend, before storming off he said “you’ll never find her, no one will”.
This is a haunting statement and one I found particularly interesting, however, when you take the whole interview into account you can see why he said it.

Thank you Terry for your time spent writing this up and your patience with me asking questions which have most probably been answered a million times in threads .

I must try get my hands on DVs book to get a full view of this interview with SLPs boyfriend .As seen out of context,This is like an admission of murder I had read they had dinner on the Friday but had an argument of sorts but met up over the weekend within a circle of friends. Is AL ..Adam ****

I haven't seen much about this guy but I did see he had an alibi. It would explain a little why Suzy would be eager to get out of the office and may well have wrote Mr kipper as a reference to her image/ thoughts of him as a fool as in stitched up like a kipper ( see above my post )

 

[WiseOwl]

BW said she saw SJL in her car in the afternoon, bit of a coincidence to then have someone park the car across the driveway again.

It does seem unlikely that Suzy's car would be parked in Stevenage Road, driven away for some reason and then parked again in exactly the same place.

There were other witness too who saw the car parked that day, including a cab driver who saw it at 2pm and of course the garage owner LM who confirmed the car was parked overlapping the driveway when he retuned home from work at 5.15.

 

[WiseOwl]

Thank you for your reply. The time of the car being parked over lapping the garage like you I don't doubt .the time I doubt is what time suzy left the office.

In order for time sturgis colleague states suzie left the office 12.35 /40 . Suzy had to cross the road .locate her car that she didn't park . Either abducted straight away but still you would have to have taken even 30 seconds to open car and bundle someone in and car drove by lone kidnapper to Stevenage Road ,not have encountered any traffic ,traffic lights etc .abandon car (reasonably parked abet overlapping garage) get suzy out of car without being seen ,into another car or premises all in 5 / 10 mins . ( Why not drive to a remote area and abandon car there or beside a body of water to make it look like sucide )Witness ,wife of garage owner sees car at 12.45 ,she had to have missed whomever parked the car by seconds

Even if colleague was out by 10 /15 mins in timings and arrived back in office at 12 .15 /20 suzy was on the phone , she had to hang up ,had to grab purse , her own keys ,document from drawer, keys for 37 for Stevenage Road. Almost impossible imo or very precise planning. Perp would have to know when colleague arrived back ,when suzy was leaving and the exact route and what if suzy got delayed by her boss or any other colleague .

In my mind she was on the phone to the perp(did anyone overhear her conversation) and was leaving to meet them .
Appointment with Mr kipper was scribbled in haste in order to explain leaving office .Was Mr kipper a fictional character from a programme or book ?

The hypothesis that suzy was abducted by anyone other than a person known to her ,however well or long known that person may be is anyone's guess ,but perpetrator definitely had a good knowledge of the area and knew exactly where her car was and what time she stepped foot outside the office .

A stakeout of sorts .Road was straight not a side street or back avenue. Suzy would have seen a stranger acting shifty at her car . She doesn't strike me as a non observing person .She was secretive she was used to being covert and sussing out a situation in order to keep people from knowing all the different threads of her life .Even when drunk it's not reported that's she blabbed about the different pockets of her lifestyle. So in theory she was used to watching her back imo

The problem with Suzy beng abducted on her way to (or by) her car is that the Sturgis office staff did not have set lunchtimes. This is mentioned in DV's book, sometimes they grabbed a chance to go out when they could, other times they did not go out at all and would have their lunch in the office, especially if they were busy or short staffed. It would have been virtually impossible for someone to predict the exact time Suzy would leave the office, unless she had arranged to meet them at a certain time of course.

As for Suzy's last phone call, no-one knows for sure who she was speaking to. However, in DV's book, the acting landlord KH (known as CV in DV's book) said that he had spoken to Suzy on the phone. It was around lunchtime, although the time this happened is not specific. He said that Suzy asked him if she had got her chequebook and diary, he replied he had and then she said she would be round for them later - again, no specific time was mentioned. Of course, as we know, she never turned up - not according to KH anyway.

DV's theory is that Suzy went to the PoW pub that lunchtime to collect her things, and that something happened there to her, even possibly an accident. The issue with this is that DV hasn't really got much evidence to back his claim up. Some of the things he writes in his book contradict what is in AS's book, bearing in mind that AS took most of his information from the police records at the time of Suzy's disappearance.

 

[RichardKimble]

It does seem unlikely that Suzy's car would be parked in Stevenage Road, driven away for some reason and then parked again in exactly the same place.

There were other witness too who saw the car parked that day, including a cab driver who saw it at 2pm and of course the garage owner LM who confirmed the car was parked overlapping the driveway when he retuned home from work at 5.15.

Given the witnesses who say the car was there at various times it seems unlikely BW saw her in the car, but how unlikely is it that BW would mistake some one else for SJL, it's these few oddities that make it so strange, then we have the CPS saying the victim nor JC can be placed together, yet the MET or at least JD is convinced it's JC.

 

[Terryb808]

Given the witnesses who say the car was there at various times it seems unlikely BW saw her in the car, but how unlikely is it that BW would mistake some one else for SJL, it's these few oddities that make it so strange, then we have the CPS saying the victim nor JC can be placed together, yet the MET or at least JD is convinced it's JC.

Nobody really knows why JD and DW (In the Footsteps of Killers) are convinced it was JC.
On just the facts there’s nothing to link JC (or anyone else) that day to SJL.
There’s no solid 100% witness sighting of SJL after she left the office.
As detective MB said at the time, the only solid facts are that SJL left the office at lunchtime and her car turned up in Stevenage Road at 10.03pm.
On this basis I can see why the CPS wouldn’t prosecute JC.

 

[su5ie]

Nobody really knows why JD and DW (In the Footsteps of Killers) are convinced it was JC.
On just the facts there’s nothing to link JC (or anyone else) that day to SJL.
There’s no solid 100% witness sighting of SJL after she left the office.
As detective MB said at the time, the only solid facts are that SJL left the office at lunchtime and her car turned up in Stevenage Road at 10.03pm.
On this basis I can see why the CPS wouldn’t prosecute JC.

My question is Can law enforcement be 100% sure she left Sturgis .. There is no solid evidence that im aware of other than the word of staff . She was not witnessed by one person going from the office to her car nor any footage of her driving to Stevenage even though there was a wine bar and other small businesses on that road and that's not accounting for people walking /driving by

.Was there cctv on any of the properties facing sturgis or any along the route to her car ? . Did sturgis have a security camera,? it held a lot of keys to properties and would have been a burglars equivalent of a sweet shop to a child. Suzy was Allegedly trying to go into real Estate partnership with someone. Was this seen as a betrayal. Now this scenario would require a lot of collaboration but not unheard of . How many people worked in the office? .

 

[WiseOwl]

My question is Can law enforcement be 100% sure she left Sturgis .. There is no solid evidence that im aware of other than the word of staff . She was not witnessed by one person going from the office to her car nor any footage of her driving to Stevenage even though there was a wine bar and other small businesses on that road and that's not accounting for people walking /driving by

.Was there cctv on any of the properties facing sturgis or any along the route to her car ? . Did sturgis have a security camera,? it held a lot of keys to properties and would have been a burglars equivalent of a sweet shop to a child. Suzy was Allegedly trying to go into real Estate partnership with someone. Was this seen as a betrayal. Now this scenario would require a lot of collaboration but not unheard of . How many people worked in the office? .

Unfortunately, back in the '80's there was very little cctv used in the UK - it became more prominent during the 1990's.

On the day that Suzy disappeared, there were 5 other members of staff working with her. MG (manager), NH & SF (office negotiators), JC (office junior) & KR the temp secretary.

There was only one witness who reported seeing Suzy that afternoon, around 2.45 a friend called BW was on her bicycle on the Fulham Palace Road who claimed to see her driving her car with a male passenger next to her. She waved to Suzy, but Suzy did not see her as she was looking towards the man. BW did not get a good look at the man.

 

[su5ie]

Given the witnesses who say the car was there at various times it seems unlikely BW saw her in the car, but how unlikely is it that BW would mistake some one else for SJL, it's these few oddities that make it so strange, then we have the CPS saying the victim nor JC can be placed together, yet the MET or at least JD is convinced it's JC.

Think of our own situations. It was many days /weeks after Suzy went missing ,that witnesses gave statements . If I asked you ,who you seen on a particular day last week or prehaps 2 weeks ago .would you be able to recall .
This is not criticism and you make a very valid point .
'Im being devil's advocate. Even Witnesses to the same event can "see" it through their perspective or in situations like this people like to 'help"

The friend may well have seen Suzy but we generally don't look at the time on each occasion we see a friend driving by and timing can be recalled through associative means ,such as
"I left my house to go to work /shops at about 10 o'clock ,I got there at about 10.30 or there abouts .I seen a friend on the way it could have been about 10 .20 but it could have been 10.10 as I'm not certain I left my house at 10 am as I didn't look at the clock .I do know my alarm went off at 9 for sure as I set it for then after that I had a cuppa, ,washed myself, got dressed and out the door .sometimes it takes me 20 mins to do this but sometimes it might be 50 mins if I do make up or chat on the phone . My point is generally the times and days witnesses state as fact are often mistaken to the detriment of a case .imo they cannot be 100% taken as evidentiary fact.

There is an Irish case of an American lady going missing in the 90s and like in this case a friend claimed to see her on the bus heading towards the foothills of the Dublin mountains. She was also "Seen " in Johnny foxes pub in the dublin mountains as it has transpired this may have been mistaken as Annie also did not acknowledge her friend when the friend called her but it was taken as 100% fact for years .recently it has transpired faxes were lost in the pile of information to state Annie was a victim of Domestic violence in the weeks previous to her disappearance and now it is suspected two brothers, one of which was causing her bother are possible perpetrators and she possibly never left her rental accommodation.

 

[Terryb808]

Think of our own situations. It was many days /weeks after Suzy went missing ,that witnesses gave statements . If I asked you ,who you seen on a particular day last week or prehaps 2 weeks ago .would you be able to recall .
This is not criticism and you make a very valid point .
'Im being devil's advocate. Even Witnesses to the same event can "see" it through their perspective or in situations like this people like to 'help"

The friend may well have seen Suzy but we generally don't look at the time on each occasion we see a friend driving by and timing can be recalled through associative means ,such as
"I left my house to go to work /shops at about 10 o'clock ,I got there at about 10.30 or there abouts .I seen a friend on the way it could have been about 10 .20 but it could have been 10.10 as I'm not certain I left my house at 10 am as I didn't look at the clock .I do know my alarm went off at 9 for sure as I set it for then after that I had a cuppa, ,washed myself, got dressed and out the door .sometimes it takes me 20 mins to do this but sometimes it might be 50 mins if I do make up or chat on the phone . My point is generally the times and days witnesses state as fact are often mistaken to the detriment of a case .imo they cannot be 100% taken as evidentiary fact.

There is an Irish case of an American lady going missing in the 90s and like in this case a friend claimed to see her on the bus heading towards the foothills of the Dublin mountains. She was also "Seen " in Johnny foxes pub in the dublin mountains as it has transpired this may have been mistaken as Annie also did not acknowledge her friend when the friend called her but it was taken as 100% fact for years .recently it has transpired faxes were lost in the pile of information to state Annie was a victim of Domestic violence in the weeks previous to her disappearance and now it is suspected two brothers, one of which was causing her bother are possible perpetrators and she possibly never left her rental accommodation.

The police varied Barbara Whitfield’s statement and confirmed the timings were accurate. There’s an interview on YouTube which may interest you.
They also varied Wendy Jones statement, confirming that the bank clock was set accurately to the correct time.
IIRC these key statements were taken close to the actual event, I’d say close enough for recall to be accurate.
To remember an event you need something to attract your attention, in Wendy Jones case it was the fact that the car was partially obstructing the garage access.
If it had not been, the chances are that she’d not have noticed it.

 

[su5ie]

The police varied Barbara Whitfield’s statement and confirmed the timings were accurate. There’s an interview on YouTube which may interest you.
They also varied Wendy Jones statement, confirming that the bank clock was set accurately to the correct time.
IIRC these key statements were taken close to the actual event, I’d say close enough for recall to be accurate.
To remember an event you need something to attract your attention, in Wendy Jones case it was the fact that the car was partially obstructing the garage access.
If it had not been, the chances are that she’d not have noticed it.

Thank you Terry ,will go back and look at both of these ladies statements