UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[su5ie]

Hopefully with advancements of forensics and AI, the samples taken and still in storage will throw the case wide open .
I wonder has the photofit being fed into a computer and a better AI 3d model been produced from it and matched /checked against all offenders of the time . A computerised cross reference of all available data of the case is also needed .

 

[Konstantin]

His approach seems to have been to pose in a suit and a rented car, then oil up to his targets with flowers, chocolates, warm champagne and other cliché tripe. People on his mental level imagine this to be suave and smooth, as opposed to embarrassing and naff. I can't see why he'd have bothered concocting anything as elaborate as a house deal to get SJL's attention, when all he ever did later was wear a suit and pretend to be prosperous.

Yes, this is a really good point--SJL was rather sophisticated, wasn't she? A worldly Londoner, even if v young still -- would she have fallen for JC's patter? Maybe if she didn't see that much of him? He comes across as incredibly naff in his "dating" video.

 

[Konstantin]

If suzy had her hair lightened on the Saturday and used hair dye was found in her house could it be that she tried to lighten it herself and made a mess of it (very hard to go from brunette to blonde at home )and went to hair salon to have fixed .seems crazy that she would dye it at home after the appointment . Is there verified reports of change in hair colour from work colleagues I wonder .

I think you're getting this case mixed up with that of Claudia Lawrence, who had hair dye in her house and her hair straighteners might have been missing. No dye was found in Suzy's flat.

 

[su5ie]

I think you're getting this case mixed up with that of Claudia Lawrence, who had hair dye in her house and her hair straighteners might have been missing. No dye was found in Suzy's flat.

I apologise for my mistake and thank you for correcting this in thread .This information I had read on another forum and possibly the poster had got details of the two cases entwined. I have not looked into Claudia's case as I wanted to look at Suzy’s case with a clear perspective without prejudice and start from the last factual evidence that she was Alive in Work that morning in the office. This is based on suzy speaking to the bank .
. Everything else afterwards is presumptions and alleged sightings from flaky witnesses imo at the moment.
Suzy had a heated argument with a colleague that morning noted by its intensity ,which generally means it was fuelled by anger . I want to try find what that argument was about, It was with N H .if anyone here knows what it was about I would greatly appreciate the info

 

[Terryb808]

I apologise for my mistake and thank you for correcting this in thread .This information I had read on another forum and possibly the poster had got details of the two cases entwined. I have not looked into Claudia's case as I wanted to look at Suzy’s case with a clear perspective without prejudice and start from the last factual evidence that she was Alive in Work that morning in the office. This is based on suzy speaking to the bank .
. Everything else afterwards is presumptions and alleged sightings from flaky witnesses imo at the moment.
Suzy had a heated argument with a colleague that morning noted by its intensity ,which generally means it was fuelled by anger . I want to try find what that argument was about, It was with N H .if anyone here knows what it was about I would greatly appreciate the info

DV clarified this in his book, given the passing of time I’ve always wondered just how accurate memory is.

 

[WiseOwl]

I apologise for my mistake and thank you for correcting this in thread .This information I had read on another forum and possibly the poster had got details of the two cases entwined. I have not looked into Claudia's case as I wanted to look at Suzy’s case with a clear perspective without prejudice and start from the last factual evidence that she was Alive in Work that morning in the office. This is based on suzy speaking to the bank .
. Everything else afterwards is presumptions and alleged sightings from flaky witnesses imo at the moment.
Suzy had a heated argument with a colleague that morning noted by its intensity ,which generally means it was fuelled by anger . I want to try find what that argument was about, It was with N H .if anyone here knows what it was about I would greatly appreciate the info

It is in DV's book on page 70.

NH and Suzy had an argument about a bidder for a property, they were both making a case for their client as to which of the buyers should get the house. NH stated that this often happened on a Monday morning (with all staff, not just those two) as over the weekends there would be lots of offers for properties. He made it sound as if it were the norm, although MG said he couldn't remember the argument.

 

[su5ie]

It is in DV's book on page 70.

NH and Suzy had an argument about a bidder for a property, they were both making a case for their client as to which of the buyers should get the house. NH stated that this often happened on a Monday morning (with all staff, not just those two) as over the weekends their would be lots of offers for properties. He made it sound as if it were the norm, although MG said he couldn't remember the argument.

Thanks for clarification WiseOwl .Not surprised the details could not be recalled by MG so many years later for DVs book .,Is it mentioned in AS's book or did this information only come out in DV book ?
Suzy Allegedly had a peach blouse on her that morning have any Witness confirmed describing this in any of sightings?

 

[WiseOwl]

It is only mentioned in DV's book during his interview with MG and NH. There is very little information about the Sturgis staff in AS's book except for MG, which thinking about it now, is quite surprising.

Another revelation in DV's book is that NH discloses that he and SF were in a relationship. Rather oddly, he describes it as a subplot - not really sure why as i don't know what their relationship had to do with Suzy's disappearance. EDITED TO ADD FOR CLARIFICATION - It was NH who described it as a subplot - NOT DV!

Another strange thing is that both MG and NH said they didn't know how to get in touch with SF, yet when DV visits her she says she has just come off the phone to MG!

The police stated she was wearing a black jacket, peach coloured-blouse and a grey skirt when last seen. I'm not sure if this refers to the Sturgis office staff or one of the witnesses who allegedly saw her in Shorrolds Road.

 

[Terryb808]

It is only mentioned in DV's book during his interview with MG and NH. There is very little information about the Sturgis staff in AS's book except for MG, which thinking about it now, is quite surprising.

Another revelation in DV's book is that NH discloses that he and SF were in a relationship. Rather oddly, he describes it as a subplot - not really sure why as i don't know what their relationship had to do with Suzy's disappearance.

Another strange thing is that both MG and NH said they didn't know how to get in touch with SF, yet when DV visits her she says she has just come off the phone to MG!

The police stated she was wearing a black jacket, peach coloured-blouse and a grey skirt when last seen. I'm not sure if this refers to the Sturgis office staff or one of the witnesses who allegedly saw her in Shorrolds Road.

There are a few odd things in DV’s book, I wonder if some are more due to creative writing rather than having any suspicious substance.

 

[su5ie]

It is only mentioned in DV's book during his interview with MG and NH. There is very little information about the Sturgis staff in AS's book except for MG, which thinking about it now, is quite surprising.

Another revelation in DV's book is that NH discloses that he and SF were in a relationship. Rather oddly, he describes it as a subplot - not really sure why as i don't know what their relationship had to do with Suzy's disappearance.

Another strange thing is that both MG and NH said they didn't know how to get in touch with SF, yet when DV visits her she says she has just come off the phone to MG!

The police stated she was wearing a black jacket, peach coloured-blouse and a grey skirt when last seen. I'm not sure if this refers to the Sturgis office staff or one of the witnesses who allegedly saw her in Shorrolds Road.

I am flabbergasted as to why Sturgis staff were not investigated more if just for process of elimination ,a line up of sorts .
NH was in a four year relationship with SF was Suzy his side piece and her diary was not lost outside POW only placed there sunday night or Monday morning on route to work by NH or SF
My thinking is diary taken by SF in work on Saturday and affair revealed to her and heated argument ensued Monday morning .Only 4 people in that office that morning NH ,KP ,SF and JC not including suzy did the four conspire to cover something up .After all suzys handbag was still in Sturgis did she regularly leave her handbag there when attending viewings ?

 

[WiseOwl]

I am flabbergasted as to why Sturgis staff were not investigated more if just for process of elimination ,a line up of sorts .
NH was in a four year relationship with SF was Suzy his side piece and her diary was not lost outside POW only placed there sunday night or Monday morning on route to work by NH or SF
My thinking is diary taken by SF in work on Saturday and affair revealed to her and heated argument ensued Monday morning .Only 4 people in that office that morning NH ,KP ,SF and JC not including suzy did the four conspire to cover something up .After all suzys handbag was still in Sturgis did she regularly leave her handbag there when attending viewings ?

The police would of investigated the Sturgis staff and eliminated them from their enquires.

However, if your theory is correct then they would of course all vouched for themselves!

Funnily enough, if you look at the two photofits from the time Suzy disappeared, one them looks uncannily like MG! If you watch the Crimewatch show from October 1986 it's the spit of him!

The section about Suzy starts at 17.40:

The 2nd photofit - MG likeness?



The acting landlord of the PoW said that Suzy's items were found on the Sunday evening, the night before she went missing.

 

[su5ie]

The police would of investigated the Sturgis staff and eliminated them from their enquires.

However, if your theory is correct then they would of course all vouched for themselves!

Funnily enough, if you look at the two photofits from the time Suzy disappeared, one them looks uncannily like MG! If you watch the Crimewatch show from October 1986 it's the spit of him!

The section about Suzy starts at 17.40:

The 2nd photofit - MG likeness?

View attachment 522111

The acting landlord of the PoW said that Suzy's items were found on the Sunday evening, the night before she went missing.

Uncannily similar , do you know if the photo fit has been aged up .I have also googled NH and think I found him ,works in property in France if profile is right and he also has a likeness to the photo fit abet older now but same hairline and slick back

The Sturgis staff may be completely innocent but it's a tree worth barking up imo and sometimes in a case as old as this we have to go back to the beginning.
Last proof of life .
Before police messed up ,before DL manipulated and hid Suzys lifestyle and personality.
While I have compassion for a grieving mother . It didn't help unravel the crime .it tangled it and even to this day its hard to find anything online without the mention of Cannan ,DL and the trust .Nothing about just Suzy MOO .
My Aim after 38 years is to look closer to the place she was last factually alive ,it doesn't mean wiping the slate of information to date clean. It's just to start a new one without prejudice ,The demeanour of those around her .
One of the red flags for me is Suzys handbag left in the office ,she seemed to like her possessions with her hence the carrying of such a private and personal item as the diary ,why not lock it in her room and journal in the evening?
Did she normally bring her handbag with her to see clients ? Only previous clients can truely answer this .
Her purse in the car could have been there from morning ,buying petrol, coffee etc . Do we have information that suzy was seen that morning by independent Witnesses? I know we have a phone call to / from bank but was it suzy on the phone ? Where there visits to the estate agents by customers to verify she was there during the morning?

Because the whole picture is needed not just from 12.40 when she Allegedly walked to her car . Was she seen by anyone else other than Sturgis staff Monday morning? A friendly neighbour ,Another tenant in the other flats , an employee heading for work across from Sturgis.
I do think the same as countless other posters that her disappearance is connected to the missing diary .it seems too coincidental to not be .

 

[WiseOwl]

Uncannily similar , do you know if the photo fit has been aged up .I have also googled NH and think I found him ,works in property in France if profile is right and he also has a likeness to the photo fit abet older now but same hairline and slick back

The Sturgis staff may be completely innocent but it's a tree worth barking up imo and sometimes in a case as old as this we have to go back to the beginning.
Last proof of life .
Before police messed up ,before DL manipulated and hid Suzys lifestyle and personality.
While I have compassion for a grieving mother . It didn't help unravel the crime .it tangled it and even to this day its hard to find anything online without the mention of Cannan ,DL and the trust .Nothing about just Suzy MOO .
My Aim after 38 years is to look closer to the place she was last factually alive ,it doesn't mean wiping the slate of information to date clean. It's just to start a new one without prejudice ,The demeanour of those around her .
One of the red flags for me is Suzys handbag left in the office ,she seemed to like her possessions with her hence the carrying of such a private and personal item as the diary ,why not lock it in her room and journal in the evening?
Did she normally bring her handbag with her to see clients ? Only previous clients can truely answer this .
Her purse in the car could have been there from morning ,buying petrol, coffee etc . Do we have information that suzy was seen that morning by independent Witnesses? I know we have a phone call to / from bank but was it suzy on the phone ? Where there visits to the estate agents by customers to verify she was there during the morning?

Because the whole picture is needed not just from 12.40 when she Allegedly walked to her car . Was she seen by anyone else other than Sturgis staff Monday morning? A friendly neighbour ,Another tenant in the other flats , an employee heading for work across from Sturgis.
I do think the same as countless other posters that her disappearance is connected to the missing diary .it seems too coincidental to not be .

To answer some of your points:

MG was likely to have been noticed by witnesses that day, as he would have been seen by the Sturgis office and also at Shorrolds Road. In the Crimewatch video, he is shown going to 37 SR that afternoon with another colleague and knocking at the door and the front window to see if there was any sign of Suzy. This is also confirmed in AS's book (pages 8 & 10). This would indicate that Suzy did take the keys to 37 SR, even though DV believes that she didn't take them with her.

In July 1986, MG was 29 years old and NH was 23. So now in 2024 they would be aged 67 and 61 respectively.

IN AS's book on page 29 it says that Suzy was seen carrying her purse, along with the keys to her car, the office and her flat, when she left the office. AS doesn't state in his book which members of staff actually saw this, it could have been one or it could have been all of them - we just don't know.

As for the phone calls, the acting landlord from the PoW phoned Suzy's bank to say he had her chequebook, they in turn phoned her at the office to say the chequebook had been found and was at the PoW, and then according to KH Suzy phoned around lunchtime to say she would pick them up later, although no time was given.

As for anyone seeing Suzy that day, KP, a partner in the Sturgis business and the person in overall charge of all the offices, paid a visit to Suzy's office that day. He said he saw all the staff that morning, and spoke to them before he went to lunch with MG at the Crocodile Tears wine bar. This is in DV's book, page 281.

 

[su5ie]

Thank you WiseOwl appreciate the reply .This is great to know about KP and MG going to lunch as it puts a hole in my theory. This is what I wanted to know if anyone independent of the main staff were there that morning and also if other staff had appointments or went to lunch . If suzy was killed in Sturgis you would hardly have staff carrying out the day normally. They did go looking for her and potentially arrived at Shorrolds at around 3.30pm .(I always find people round times off you never get people saying I saw my friend at 2.11pm or 3 .23 pm lol )

Which brings me to the missing diary and the suspicion it was taken from her bag and not lost . The person who potentially took it surely weren't gloved up at the time and would have been in her company. How come no fingerprints were found on that,? The only fingerprints that should have been between the pages and potentially the cover was Suzys prehaps the pub landlord.Was it swabbed at the time ? Is it in forensic storage? Imo it should be !! Was it given back to her family? Did police fingerprint POW staff to eliminate them from potential evidence in diary or car ?

The photograph of suzy sitting on a guys lap at party . Has this been colourized or enhanced? Shadows can be removed digitally now I presume . Has this person been identified as ALs friend or at least someone in her friends circle ?

 

[WiseOwl]

Thank you WiseOwl appreciate the reply .This is great to know about KP and MG going to lunch as it puts a hole in my theory. This is what I wanted to know if anyone independent of the main staff were there that morning and also if other staff had appointments or went to lunch . If suzy was killed in Sturgis you would hardly have staff carrying out the day normally. They did go looking for her and potentially arrived at Shorrolds at around 3.30pm .(I always find people round times off you never get people saying I saw my friend at 2.11pm or 3 .23 pm lol )

Which brings me to the missing diary and the suspicion it was taken from her bag and not lost . The person who potentially took it surely weren't gloved up at the time and would have been in her company. How come no fingerprints were found on that,? The only fingerprints that should have been between the pages and potentially the cover was Suzys prehaps the pub landlord.Was it swabbed at the time ? Is it in forensic storage? Imo it should be !! Was it given back to her family? Did police fingerprint POW staff to eliminate them from potential evidence in diary or car ?

The photograph of suzy sitting on a guys lap at party . Has this been colourized or enhanced? Shadows can be removed digitally now I presume . Has this person been identified as ALs friend or at least someone in her friends circle ?

You're welcome.

At the time of Suzy's disappearance, i don't think the police paid much attention to the missing diary and chequebook. The police firmly believed at the time that Suzy's appointment with Mr Kipper at Shorrolds Road was genuine, and that this Kipper fella had abducted Suzy outside the property. While they thought the name Kipper was false, they believed the appointment had been made on either the Saturday morning or possibly on the Monday morning. In those first few weeks and months of the investigation, they firmly believed that Suzy had been abducted outside 37 SR. So, it does seem highly unlikely that they decided to check the chequebook and diary for fingerprints.

The car was checked for fingerprints and FWICR there were prints found from some of the Sturgis staff, but this wasn't unusual because some members of staff had use of her car. For instance, JC used it on the morning she went missing.

The photographs from around the time Suzy disappeared haven't (as far as i am aware) been digitally enhanced or anything like that. Back in the 1980's, this would of been unheard of.

The photograph you are referring to, it does look like Suzy is sitting on the man's lap but that has never been established, it might be the angle of the camera shot that makes it look that way.

Suzy went to the party on Saturday night without AL, it's never been said why though. The party was set in a barn and marquee in the garden of a house in Dorking, Surrey. It was a 21st birthday party for a member of the Putney Set, and there were over seventy people attending, mainly people in their twenties. The party finished at 3.00 in the morning.

The following day, Suzy and several of 'the Set' went to Worthing for an afternoon of windsurfing. AL joined the group that afternoon, making his own way there. He also made his own way home later that evening, while Suzy came back to London with her friend SH and a male friend (who owned the car) AB. Suzy went to her flat, changed and then went to see her parents, before leaving at 9pm. She was supposed to meet AL at 8pm, but he was delayed coming back to London. They spoke on the phone around 10.15.

The information about the Saturday and Sunday before Suzy disappeared is in AS's book, pages 79 - 82.

 

[su5ie]

You're welcome.

At the time of Suzy's disappearance, i don't think the police paid much attention to the missing diary and chequebook. The police firmly believed at the time that Suzy's appointment with Mr Kipper at Shorrolds Road was genuine, and that this Kipper fella had abducted Suzy outside the property. While they thought the name Kipper was false, they believed the appointment had been made on either the Saturday morning or possibly on the Monday morning. In those first few weeks and months of the investigation, they firmly believed that Suzy had been abducted outside 37 SR. So, it does seem highly unlikely that they decided to check the chequebook and diary for fingerprints.

The car was checked for fingerprints and FWICR there were prints found from some of the Sturgis staff, but this wasn't unusual because some members of staff had use of her car. For instance, JC used it on the morning she went missing.

The photographs from around the time Suzy disappeared haven't (as far as i am aware) been digitally enhanced or anything like that. Back in the 1980's, this would of been unheard of.

The photograph you are referring to, it does look like Suzy is sitting on the man's lap but that has never been established, it might be the angle of the camera shot that makes it look that way.

Suzy went to the party on Saturday night without AL, it's never been said why though. The party was set in a barn and marquee in the garden of a house in Dorking, Surrey. It was a 21st birthday party for a member of the Putney Set, and there were over seventy people attending, mainly people in their twenties. The party finished at 3.00 in the morning.

The following day, Suzy and several of 'the Set' went to Worthing for an afternoon of windsurfing. AL joined the group that afternoon, making his own way there. He also made his own way home later that evening, while Suzy came back to London with her friend SH and a male friend (who owned the car) AB. Suzy went to her flat, changed and then went to see her parents, before leaving at 9pm. She was supposed to meet AL at 8pm, but he was delayed coming back to London. They spoke on the phone around 10.15.

The information about the Saturday and Sunday before Suzy disappeared is in AS's book, pages 79 - 82.

Thank you Wise Owl , Today that diary and chequebook would be placed in a sealed evidence bag ,such a shame , a lot of evidence and suspects were deemed irrelevant so early on it beggars belief in the logical mind .

Police men and Women are only human but my word so many should not even be in menial jobs

 

[WestLondoner]

We don't know they weren't. The police attempted to identify everyone in the diary on the basis that Mr Kipper might have been in there. Of course if Mr Kipper was Cannan he was in a prison hostel and would not have had a phone number, so he wouldn't have been in there under any name at all.

 

[su5ie]

We don't know they weren't. The police attempted to identify everyone in the diary on the basis that Mr Kipper might have been in there. Of course if Mr Kipper was Cannan he was in a prison hostel and would not have had a phone number, so he wouldn't have been in there under any name at all.

The guy a witness claimed to have seen with suzy outside Shorrolds, was said to be tanned. Prisoners after release tend to be pale in colour, even the shallow skin typed ( lack of access to sunlight) would this not contradict the Witness and the photofit ,I also observed the photofit male has thinner eyebrows than cannan who had very big and bushy eyebrows imo .I understand the timings could be out and this was Sturgis staff looking for suzy . How long was Cannan in the hostel ? and was he in an open prison could he have been in the yard a lot ?

I had read Cannan was only referenced as Kipper by other lags after Suzys abduction and suspected murder . And didn't actually go by the nickname himself . Wouldnt it be a dead give away ? Is there a way of verifying this ?
I seen an article that says a number of female Estate agents in the area were pestered in the weeks prior by a Mr Kipper . Did any one of the other women see this man ?
Did suzy record anything in her personal diary from the previous 3 weeks about a mysterious liason or about the Friday or Saturday,? Was any pages missing from the diary ?