UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[blj72]

SL only took her purse to the appointment she had to view 37 shorrolds rd. she left her handbag beside her desk in the office. this to me shows she did not plan on being gone for very long.

from what ive seen, people doing a houseshowing dont have a bag with them, keys and purse/wallet in pocket maybe, I agree about Suzy not intending to be gone for long. That is why all the sightings of her with JC throught the day either enjoying champagne, fighting in cars . people forget she was nipping out on a lunch break , she would have been fired for just leaving and being in the street with a guy with champagne in the evening!.

 

[blj72]

ive Dmed Videcette before, quite a long time ago now. Obviously he doesnt give much away, but He agreed that Suzys family need to be onside with his research to make police act on it THe fact on the week of FInding Suzy being published, her brother called for SW to be reinterviewed. It seems unlikely, I suppose the family have had years of people approaching with different theories ,I think its a shame VIdecette didnt get to speak to Paul Lamplugh. He may have been open to a new approach, I think DL ruled the roost.

 

[blj72]

Really interesting comment. I remember when it came out about suzy not taking the housekeys for the showing. A documentary turned up and they made a point of Suzy saying hoy chuck me the keys to 37 Shorrolds. Over the years , right back to the beginning ive never seen this in a recreation. THe msm want to get back to the established narrative People like David Wilson just follow the established line. Id be interested if hes even read Videcettes book. He wanted Robert Black charged for Geanette tate. Blacks victims were left to be discovered. Tate has been hidden. Black abducted from busy areas. Tate was on a remote country lane. I have my own ideas who was responsible for her murder. Wilson even wanted Black charged For April Fabb who vanished in 1969 as there was no evidence that he was not in the area i mean wtf.Theres a tendency to want to tidy stuff up. Contrary to belief, i do think there are poeple who kill as a one off. They want to know what its like to kill a woman, they do it and then dont do it again, not everyone is a serial killer.

 

[WiseOwl]

Really interesting comment. I remember when it came out about suzy not taking the housekeys for the showing. A documentary turned up and they made a point of Suzy saying hoy chuck me the keys to 37 Shorrolds. Over the years , right back to the beginning ive never seen this in a recreation. THe msm want to get back to the established narrative People like David Wilson just follow the established line. Id be interested if hes even read Videcettes book. He wanted Robert Black charged for Geanette tate. Blacks victims were left to be discovered. Tate has been hidden. Black abducted from busy areas. Tate was on a remote country lane. I have my own ideas who was responsible for her murder. Wilson even wanted Black charged For April Fabb who vanished in 1969 as there was no evidence that he was not in the area i mean wtf.Theres a tendency to want to tidy stuff up. Contrary to belief, i do think there are poeple who kill as a one off. They want to know what its like to kill a woman, they do it and then dont do it again, not everyone is a serial killer.

It was DV who came up with the assumption that Suzy didn't take the keys in his book, which he used to back up his theory of her going to the PoW pub that lunchtime.

In AS's book it twice clearly states that Suzy took the keys on pages 6 & 28/29.

Page 6: The estate agent manager remembered Susannah coming behind his desk to pick up the keys, which were attached to the large and distinctive yellow Sturgis key fob.

Pages 28 & 29: KR remembered seeing Susannah on the phone and half-sitting on her desk as if she was about to leave. She went to pick up the keys to 37 Shorrolds Road from the key board behind MG's desk, and then took the house details from a drawer.

This is from the original police investigation and, unless the Sturgis staff are lying for some reason, is clear for all to see. DV conveniently ignores this information in his book.

 

[CocktailQueen]

It was DV who came up with the assumption that Suzy didn't take the keys in his book, which he used to back up his theory of her going to the PoW pub that lunchtime.

In AS's book it twice clearly states that Suzy took the keys on pages 6 & 28/29.

Page 6: The estate agent manager remembered Susannah coming behind his desk to pick up the keys, which were attached to the large and distinctive yellow Sturgis key fob.

Pages 28 & 29: KR remembered seeing Susannah on the phone and half-sitting on her desk as if she was about to leave. She went to pick up the keys to 37 Shorrolds Road from the key board behind MG's desk, and then took the house details from a drawer.

This is from the original police investigation and, unless the Sturgis staff are lying for some reason, is clear for all to see. DV conveniently ignores this information in his book.

The staff may not be lying. She might have just been role playing taking the keys but didn’t actually take them. Though, if she was over there already pretending to take them she probably would have just taken them even if the viewing was fake.

 

[Salah11]

The staff may not be lying. She might have just been role playing taking the keys but didn’t actually take them. Though, if she was over there already pretending to take them she probably would have just taken them even if the viewing was fake.

Yes if she was role playing she would of just taken the keys.

DV unfortunately has made up his own theory’s to sell the book. I think he had very good intentions to begin but as the costs spiraled to help sales he had to come up with a suspect.

IMO

 

[Konstantin]

Yes if she was role playing she would of just taken the keys.

DV unfortunately has made up his own theory’s to sell the book. I think he had very good intentions to begin but as the costs spiraled to help sales he had to come up with a suspect.

IMO

Yes, well put. DV needs SJL not to have taken the keys for his "detective story" to work. It's part of his plot. Maybe that is a bit harsh but that is my impression anyway. Not to take away from the work he has done.

 

[su5ie]

In reply to your post about the DNA links @su5ie, i couldn't see anything about it in the Wellington Today link. However, in the Birmingham Live page it does reference the DNA link between Suzy and JC. However, the source of this link is from the author Christopher Berry-Dee. He wrote a book called 'Unmasking Mr Kipper' in 1996, in which he names Michael Sams as being responsible for Suzy's disappearance. Sams was convicted for the murder of Julie Dart in 1991, and the kidnapping of estate agent Stephanie Slater in 1992.

in 2008, CBD releases a book called 'Prime Suspect', which has a picture of Suzy and JC on the cover, but is mainly about JC.

The Birmingham Live link is dated 2010, with an update in 2012.

In it, Berry-Dee has claimed trace DNA evidence was found in an old Ford Sierra once owned by Cannan – which reveals Suzy was once in the car. “I believe that was the car that Suzy Lamplugh was later abducted in. We went through all the evidence with detectives, and wondered if there could be trace evidence in that car linking her to her killer.

They found the car when the case was re-opened in 2000, and I understand they did find trace evidence of both Cannan and Suzy Lamplugh. This evidence has never been put before a jury because the Crown Prosecution Service will not proceed without a confession.''

Apart from CBD, no-one else has ever mentioned this DNA link.

In the Wellington link I posted it was in reference to Sandra court dna evidence in a ford sierra.
I couldn't find an article with both references together just separate ones unfortunately and I suppose I linked the two together as being the same Ford sierra in which the Birmingham live link states both Cannan and possibly suzys dna was found in a red Ford Sierra. It is quite possible Cannan had use of two separate Ford sierra's .
Here is a screenshot of where the Wellington says about sandra court
i find it incredible that cannon was never charged with sandras murder based on this alone as how would her hair have got into his car otherwise?

This is just an article I came across looking at Cannan's biographical history and life .It includes a part that says he was a suspect in the Candice Williams murder at the time I know it transpired someone else was responsible but it highlights for me how multiple sexual deviants can be in one area at the same time .it was just an interesting read if your interested

John Cannan - The True Crime Database

A suspect in numerous unsolved crimes, John Cannan is a rapist and serial killer whom police suspect was involved in the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh.

www.thetruecrimedatabase.com

 

[WiseOwl]

The staff may not be lying. She might have just been role playing taking the keys but didn’t actually take them. Though, if she was over there already pretending to take them she probably would have just taken them even if the viewing was fake.

Even if the viewing was fake, it does seem likely that Suzy took the keys and the house details as these have never been located since the day she disappeared.

The strange thing is though, if Suzy was meeting someone for other reasons rather than showing them round 37 SR, why not just leave the house keys and details in her car? We know she left her handbag at the office, so she didn't put them in that. So it would appear that whoever abducted Suzy took these items too.

 

[su5ie]

Yes, well put. DV needs SJL not to have taken the keys for his "detective story" to work. It's part of his plot. Maybe that is a bit harsh but that is my impression anyway. Not to take away from the work he has done.

Anyone looking at this case for what ever purpose can make any scenario fit with a preferred narrative due to the overwhelmingly tangled Web of Suzy’s life and the amount of "characters " introduced by SM ,MsM ,ex detectives ,criminologists, authors ,documentary makers and DL imo

 

[blj72]

It was DV who came up with the assumption that Suzy didn't take the keys in his book, which he used to back up his theory of her going to the PoW pub that lunchtime.

In AS's book it twice clearly states that Suzy took the keys on pages 6 & 28/29.

Page 6: The estate agent manager remembered Susannah coming behind his desk to pick up the keys, which were attached to the large and distinctive yellow Sturgis key fob.

Pages 28 & 29: KR remembered seeing Susannah on the phone and half-sitting on her desk as if she was about to leave. She went to pick up the keys to 37 Shorrolds Road from the key board behind MG's desk, and then took the house details from a drawer.

This is from the original police investigation and, unless the Sturgis staff are lying for some reason, is clear for all to see. DV conveniently ignores this information in his book.

Thats interesting, i wonder why DV has made this a point of interest when it can be proved untrue apparently, he will have read the AS book i presume. Ill have to check out the pages references, was it an assumption, alot was made of all the keys being on one ring. whole thing very convoluted

 

[blj72]

Yes if she was role playing she would of just taken the keys.

DV unfortunately has made up his own theory’s to sell the book. I think he had very good intentions to begin but as the costs spiraled to help sales he had to come up with a suspect.

IMO

I remember when he did the who is mr kipper podcast back in 2019, he laid out why he felt she didnt go to Shorolds. He gave nothing away about the pub but he did say he had given the Met a dossier with a new suspect named. In the book he doesnt really name a suspect, just lets you infer. <modsnip>

 

[su5ie]

Even if the viewing was fake, it does seem likely that Suzy took the keys and the house details as these have never been located since the day she disappeared.

The strange thing is though, if Suzy was meeting someone for other reasons rather than showing them round 37 SR, why not just leave the house keys and details in her car? We know she left her handbag at the office, so she didn't put them in that. So it would appear that whoever abducted Suzy took these items too.

If the appointment was fake, Suzy would have to bring the keys to fully play out her cover story and make it appear to Sturgis staff the viewing was real .
If the appointment was genuine in suzys mind she would also bring the keys ,it is quite possible Suzy looped the house key onto her car keys as she didn't bring a handbag .and both sets of keys were never found

Cannan is known as an opportunistic predator ,and is Allegedly suspected of visiting the wine bar opposite Sturgis. Is it possible he noticed suzy leaving the office on his way to the wine bar for a lunch time drink and seized his opportunity, I don't rule out him stalking her either but if she never made it to 37SR this is a realistic scenario as he was reckless enough to rape a woman in a shop with her mother and baby son present.
He had access to multiple cars which would explain witnesses seeing suzy in different vehicles and access to lock ups so could bring suzy to anyone of these .if he pointed out Norton barracks to a girlfriend without prompt why would he finger there .I know police did a search of here but was it recently investigated with advanced equipment . He appears to enjoy spending time with his victims in places that feel familiar to him .His father was in the army and so was Cannan for a short time

 

[WiseOwl]

In the Wellington link I posted it was in reference to Sandra court dna evidence in a ford sierra.
I couldn't find an article with both references together just separate ones unfortunately and I suppose I linked the two together as being the same Ford sierra in which the Birmingham live link states both Cannan and possibly suzys dna was found in a red Ford Sierra. It is quite possible Cannan had use of two separate Ford sierra's .
Here is a screenshot of where the Wellington says about sandra court
i find it incredible that cannon was never charged with sandras murder based on this alone as how would her hair have got into his car otherwise? View attachment 522846

This is just an article I came across looking at Cannan's biographical history and life .It includes a part that says he was a suspect in the Candice Williams murder at the time I know it transpired someone else was responsible but it highlights for me how multiple sexual deviants can be in one area at the same time .it was just an interesting read if your interested

John Cannan - The True Crime Database

A suspect in numerous unsolved crimes, John Cannan is a rapist and serial killer whom police suspect was involved in the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh.

www.thetruecrimedatabase.com

You have totally freaked me out with the mention of Candice, because on the day she was murdered i was staying at my uncle's house in Erdington, Birmingham, and he lived just across the road from the block of flats where Candice lived. It was the start of the summer holidays and i sometimes stayed at my uncle & aunt's house while my parents were at work. In particular i remember the following day, when we got up that morning there was a police cordon around the flats, loads of police cars & vans everywhere and i think the BBC and ITV were there as well. It shocked me i can tell you, and i have never forgotten it.

I believe JC was considered a suspect for a long time, but eventually DNA from the scene revealed it was Patrick Hassett who had committed the murder.

Hassett looked like Peter Sutcliffe, and had a record of sexual offences. I wonder if they considered him as a possibility as the house for sale rapist back in the 1970's?

 

[WiseOwl]

Thats interesting, i wonder why DV has made this a point of interest when it can be proved untrue apparently, he will have read the AS book i presume. Ill have to check out the pages references, was it an assumption, alot was made of all the keys being on one ring. whole thing very convoluted

Yes, i also believe that DV would of read AS's book.

The keys that were on one ring were Suzy's car key, her flat key and the office key - the keys to 37 SR were on a different fob.

 

[su5ie]

You have totally freaked me out with the mention of Candice, because on the day she was murdered i was staying at my uncle's house in Erdington, Birmingham, and he lived just across the road from the block of flats where Candice lived. It was the start of the summer holidays and i sometimes stayed at my uncle & aunt's house while my parents were at work. In particular i remember the following day, when we got up that morning there was a police cordon around the flats, loads of police cars & vans everywhere and i think the BBC and ITV were there as well. It shocked me i can tell you, and i have never forgotten it.

I believe JC was considered a suspect for a long time, but eventually DNA from the scene revealed it was Patrick Hassett who had committed the murder.

Hassett looked like Peter Sutcliffe, and had a record of sexual offences. I wonder if they considered him as a possibility as the house for sale rapist back in the 1970's?

So sorry to bring up the memory WiseOwl. It just highlights a number of predators can be in one area at the same time and the house for sale rapist quite possibly may have been Patrick I don't think he was ruled out . But a number of similar deviants operated in the one area . Did you read the article linked in that post it was a great read . And my eyes were opened wife when I read he raped a girlfriend with a strap on which prehaps explains no semen found on sandra court

I was trying to find maps of bomb shelters and air raid shelters from world war 2 if anyone has some map or knows about these from grandparents can they share that prehaps JC would have known about through his father that were in the general locality of suzys disappearance. Imo Cannan enjoyed spending time torturing his victims and prolonging a killing to ensure for him the maximum pleasure ( I shudder ) so would prehaps have brought suzy to an undisturbable location ( don't know if I made that word up ) like this

 

[WestLondoner]

There's a website called something like "The Defence of Britain Database" which is a complete list of all extant fortifications right down to pill boxes built in 1940. I used to play in one as a kid. It was an excellent hangout for a ten year old and his dog. It may include air raid shelters, I don't know.

On the keys thing, I am not sure this is all that conclusive. If SJL did take the keys and disappeared with them, how did anyone get into the house to search it? If they got hold of a spare to do so, why was this not mentioned by AS? Did people really see her take keys, or did they just assume later that she must have done so because it's what you'd do if you were conducting a viewing? Was MG really still at his own desk at 12.40? If she went inside, why did she leave no fingerprints or other sign of having been in? If she actually went straight to 123SR what was the point of doing so without the keys for that house?

 

[tes1984]

Cannan is known as an opportunistic predator ,and is Allegedly suspected of visiting the wine bar opposite Sturgis. Is it possible he noticed suzy leaving the office on his way to the wine bar for a lunch time drink and seized his opportunity, I don't rule out him stalking her either but if she never made it to 37SR this is a realistic scenario as he was reckless enough to rape a woman in a shop with her mother and baby son present.

No offence but apart from the 'opportunistic predator' bit, this is all speculation.
I don't think a random abductor also just happens to be mistakenly identified as Mr Kipper.

He had access to multiple cars which would explain witnesses seeing suzy in different vehicles and access to lock ups so could bring suzy to anyone of these .i

What were his multiple cars, and where were his lock ups?

 

[tes1984]

If I had to answer YES/NO as to whether JC killed Suzy, then I would say NO.

However I still think he's a good suspect.
If it wasn't him, then I'd like to see some other suggestions...

The police have made some colossal mistakes in this case, but I can see why they focused on Cannan. They identified a potential cluster of Suzy, Sandra Court and Shirley Banks, based on an unusual signature.

If JC didn't kill Sandra, then (once again) I'd like to see someone else put forward...

Same with Suzy actually... nobody has a POI or suspect they can allude to?