UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[WestLondoner]

There would not have been any phone records in 1986. Itemised billing was not standard. If you wanted it, you had to ask for it to be enabled at the (mechanical) exchange, which took a couple of weeks to set up, and was at extra cost. It did not capture where incoming calls were from, only outgoing ones, nor could you apply it retrospectively. That is, you couldn't enable it today and find out what numbers you rang yesterday - it only worked from the point you set it up.

 

[su5ie]

There would not have been any phone records in 1986. Itemised billing was not standard. If you wanted it, you had to ask for it to be enabled at the (mechanical) exchange, which took a couple of weeks to set up, and was at extra cost. It did not capture where incoming calls were from, only outgoing ones, nor could you apply it retrospectively. That is, you couldn't enable it today and find out what numbers you rang yesterday - it only worked from the point you set it up.

Thank you . There was actually a debate concerning legislation for this in the house of Parliament on the 7th of july 1986 . But would calls that required an operator to connect have been recorded in a ledger by the exchange ? I know the operator took the name of the person you wanted to speak to and then connected the call . So potentially if suzy recieved a call in the office from a car phone the operator would know if a call was made to Sturgis that morning from one ? I wondered was this angle investigated.

The reasoning behind my thinking in case posters think I'm gone mad lol . I'm wondering was the rendezvous point changed last minute . The caller in their car had time to scope out where was quieter and rang suzy last minute . Or possibly the MR kipper was a rich business man with whom suzy was sleeping with or the person with whom she was due to go into business with or purchase a house with . Which could be what she was doing that day not looking at a house for a client but that she was looking at a house that she and the client were to buy together .This businessman could potentially be a criminal in the kray twins sense of the word . I'm just trying to think outside of the box

 

[lee sumner]

Thank you . There was actually a debate concerning legislation for this in the house of Parliament on the 7th of july 1986 . But would calls that required an operator to connect have been recorded in a ledger by the exchange ? I know the operator took the name of the person you wanted to speak to and then connected the call . So potentially if suzy recieved a call in the office from a car phone the operator would know if a call was made to Sturgis that morning from one ? I wondered was this angle investigated.

The reasoning behind my thinking in case posters think I'm gone mad lol . I'm wondering was the rendezvous point changed last minute . The caller in their car had time to scope out where was quieter and rang suzy last minute . Or possibly the MR kipper was a rich business man with whom suzy was sleeping with or the person with whom she was due to go into business with or purchase a house with . Which could be what she was doing that day not looking at a house for a client but that she was looking at a house that she and the client were to buy together .This businessman could potentially be a criminal in the kray twins sense of the word . I'm just trying to think outside of the box

i also think the mystery deal she had going could be connected to her disappearance. why was she wanting to sell her flat so quickly. was it to invest in a property.

 

[lee sumner]

Not if she was abducted at random.

A lot of women were snatched off the street in London in the 80s and even 90s.

abducted at random. no way. not with mr kipper listed in her diary.

 

[WestLondoner]

A quirk of early mobile phones was that the range of numbers you could call from them was restricted. As late as the mid-1990s, I recall seeing ads on the Tube which consisted of a blank poster and the words "All the numbers you can't call from a Mercury 1-2-1 phone", it being a very big deal back then that you could now call anyone where previously you couldn't. I don't recall what numbers you couldn't call or why not, but this along with price was quite a big obstacle to mobile phone uptake back then.

The thing I don't understand about Mr Kipper, as a means of approaching estate agents you want to rape, is how you'd get around having to provide a phone number for yourself as Mr Kipper. Any agent you approached as a would-be buyer is going to want a contact number, or at least one where messages can be left. If we accept for argument's sake that someone really did approach other agents posing as Mr Kipper, and that these agents did report this in 1986 right after SJL disappeared, then Mr Kipper must have met none of them (why would a rapist go into the office where your target works?), but left a fake phone number with all of them, and thereby gone onto some of these other agents' contact list - but not onto others (e.g. Sturgis). If this happened, and other agents then rang the inquiry in 1986 and said Yeah, we had some guy phoned us calling himself Kipper, it tells you right away there was an actual person calling himself Mr Kipper. If there were none, or if these were all claims that originated 14 years later, it tells you there really was no such person. In that case he was either a figment of SJL's imagination, or was known to her under a different name which she did not identify in her diary. It's similar to the unfaithful spouse's latter day ruse of putting their bit on the side's number into their mobile phone as "Accounts" or "BT", so if s/he phones while the other half is around, the caller's supposed name coming up doesn't give the game away.

One possibility for which there's zero evidence but that the circumstances allow for is the "Afternoon Delight": Mr Kipper is one of SJL's current or ex-squeezes, who rings her up at work and demands an insta-sh*g. She writes down 37SR in the diary but goes somewhere else. I'm sure I recall a story in the Sun in the 80s about "randy house sales girls" doing this sort of thing...

 

[su5ie]

i also think the mystery deal she had going could be connected to her disappearance. why was she wanting to sell her flat so quickly. was it to invest in a property.

The sale of suzys flat would have only covered the mortgage repayment to the bank . So with whose money was she going to buy a new property with

According to AS book when Suzys assets were being assessed she didnt own much Dad mentions her buying a property with someone else but I've not seen this delved into any further and as far as I can see this person never came forward publicly anyway . Its almost said as an off the cuff remark .

I most definitely feel ,the married man she was seeing ,the married man cooking her nice meals , the man pressuring her and whomever she was buying this property with and sent the roses are one and the same person . I feel the meeting that day was pre arranged
If you notice the entries in her work diary morning and 6pm appointment scribbled , wrote most probably while on the phone and wrote in haste as person is calling out information. MR KIPPER entry is neater its already in her head ,she is writing from memory in relaxed fashion .

If we look at what suzy is telling us by her actions not what others assume or their" Truths " Suzy is telling us she was involved with a married man and he was doing things she didn't like and she felt pressured . She was selling her flat with no other property lined up . She was secretive. she didnt have huge savings and she engaged in risky behaviour

. Why the police and her family believe that someone who was engaged in risky behaviour in her personal life , would not also make risky choices in work by making a false entry in a diary to meet some one known to her is beyond me . I'm not judging her lifestyle I'm just making an observation.
In my mind she arranged to meet at 123StR that day with a person well known to her . No sign of a struggle, no chunks of hair or chipped nails to say she was dragged out of her car or into another car ,no dropped keys ,no paperwork in her car . No tyre marks of a car that screeched off everything tells us either she never entered that car or got out of her own free will
Things turned sour over some disagreement and she was disposed of .too much hassle to keep her alive . Imo she was probably dating or involved in a relationship with possibly a crooked businessman or a gangland type figure either that or she never left the office .

 

[Konstantin]

The thing I don't understand about Mr Kipper, as a means of approaching estate agents you want to rape, is how you'd get around having to provide a phone number for yourself as Mr Kipper. Any agent you approached as a would-be buyer is going to want a contact number, or at least one where messages can be left. If we accept for argument's sake that someone really did approach other agents posing as Mr Kipper, and that these agents did report this in 1986 right after SJL disappeared, then Mr Kipper must have met none of them (why would a rapist go into the office where your target works?), but left a fake phone number with all of them, and thereby gone onto some of these other agents' contact list - but not onto others (e.g. Sturgis).

This is an excellent point.
I guess if you wanted to stalk young female estate agents, you could walk around peering through windows until you found someone to target. But how would you contact them to lure them to a house viewing? If you phoned the office, you'd not necessarily get put through to your target, you might get her male colleague. You might go in and try to talk to someone, but surely you'd have to talk to someone on reception first rather than just walk up to someone's desk, plus then, you're showing your face to literally everyone in the office. And the receptionist is going to want to send you particulars of houses you might be interested in so they would obviously ask for an address. Or at least as you say a number to contact you on. Sturgis had some sort of filing system where agents had to put clients' names.

If SJL's abductor was a male predator targeting estate agents, this does not tally with the narrative that he also stalked her beforehand. Stalking her implied that he met her somewhere and followed her about. I guess he could have peered through the Sturgis window, picked her out and followed her to a wine bar or somewhere, and talked to her. It's all a bit vague.

In that case he was either a figment of SJL's imagination, or was known to her under a different name which she did not identify in her diary.

This is the most likely thing in my view. Kipper is just a very weird name that would immediately draw attention to someone using it as a fake name. It's a name you would remember. Why not fly beneath the radar by calling yourself Mr Smith or Mr Jones or Mr Brown? SJL and her set used to make up funny nicknames for people. She also had dyslexia. So either its a mis-spelling (Kiper anyone?) or SJL just used a made up name, risking having her colleagues suss that's what she'd done when she came back and failed to put the fishy new client into the Rolodex.

 

[su5ie]

This is an excellent point.
I guess if you wanted to stalk young female estate agents, you could walk around peering through windows until you found someone to target. But how would you contact them to lure them to a house viewing? If you phoned the office, you'd not necessarily get put through to your target, you might get her male colleague. You might go in and try to talk to someone, but surely you'd have to talk to someone on reception first rather than just walk up to someone's desk, plus then, you're showing your face to literally everyone in the office. And the receptionist is going to want to send you particulars of houses you might be interested in so they would obviously ask for an address. Or at least as you say a number to contact you on. Sturgis had some sort of filing system where agents had to put clients' names.

If SJL's abductor was a male predator targeting estate agents, this does not tally with the narrative that he also stalked her beforehand. Stalking her implied that he met her somewhere and followed her about. I guess he could have peered through the Sturgis window, picked her out and followed her to a wine bar or somewhere, and talked to her. It's all a bit vague.



This is the most likely thing in my view. Kipper is just a very weird name that would immediately draw attention to someone using it as a fake name. It's a name you would remember. Why not fly beneath the radar by calling yourself Mr Smith or Mr Jones or Mr Brown? SJL and her set used to make up funny nicknames for people. She also had dyslexia. So either its a mis-spelling (Kiper anyone?) or SJL just used a made up name, risking having her colleagues suss that's what she'd done when she came back and failed to put the fishy new client into the Rolodex.

Very good points about the possibility a male colleague could take the call or show up to a house viewing. How would cannan or anyone else for that matter be sure to get suzy .

I think it's great everyone is looking at the finer details in the known evidence and clues suzy left herself . I myself decided to disregard the known hypothesise and look from the beginning to try unravel the logic from the illogical

 

[su5ie]

This is an excellent point.
I guess if you wanted to stalk young female estate agents, you could walk around peering through windows until you found someone to target. But how would you contact them to lure them to a house viewing? If you phoned the office, you'd not necessarily get put through to your target, you might get her male colleague. You might go in and try to talk to someone, but surely you'd have to talk to someone on reception first rather than just walk up to someone's desk, plus then, you're showing your face to literally everyone in the office. And the receptionist is going to want to send you particulars of houses you might be interested in so they would obviously ask for an address. Or at least as you say a number to contact you on. Sturgis had some sort of filing system where agents had to put clients' names.

If SJL's abductor was a male predator targeting estate agents, this does not tally with the narrative that he also stalked her beforehand. Stalking her implied that he met her somewhere and followed her about. I guess he could have peered through the Sturgis window, picked her out and followed her to a wine bar or somewhere, and talked to her. It's all a bit vague.



This is the most likely thing in my view. Kipper is just a very weird name that would immediately draw attention to someone using it as a fake name. It's a name you would remember. Why not fly beneath the radar by calling yourself Mr Smith or Mr Jones or Mr Brown? SJL and her set used to make up funny nicknames for people. She also had dyslexia. So either its a mis-spelling (Kiper anyone?) or SJL just used a made up name, risking having her colleagues suss that's what she'd done when she came back and failed to put the fishy new client into the Rolodex.

Suzy also mixed up P with B and also spelt words as they sounded but from looking at the difference in writing style and looking at hastily written handwriting in top and bottom of diary but Mr kipper written so neatly . If I write a name and number as I'm talking on the phone its scribbled, if I'm relaxed and written from memory it's neat

 

[tes1984]

abducted at random. no way. not with mr kipper listed in her diary.

You may well be right, but it's far from certain.

The Leah Croucher case had some interesting theories about her personal life and why she disappeared, but the truth turned out to be that she was snatched at random by a maniac, who was working in the area.