UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[Cherwell]

Doyle said the man he'd seen was holding a champagne bottle with ribbons on it, such bottles had been sold locally (why would "Kipper" drive with SJL to Shorrolds and take his champagne with him to a house viewing?).

And why wouldn't he leave it in the car while they were viewing the house?

 

[Konstantin]

And why wouldn't he leave it in the car while they were viewing the house?

Yes, that's what I mean -- if this guy had driven with Suzy to the viewing from Stevenage Road, it would make more sense for him to leave the champagne in the car rather than lug it around a house viewing. Why would you even do that? If this sighting is real, and this man who arrived with SJL in his car to view this house, he would surely leave the champers to get warm and unpleasant in his fancy BMW. If he had turned up there separately to meet her and wanted to impress her by surprising her with a "posh" bottle of fizzy wine with ribbons on it, one might expect him to bring it with him to present to her. I can't imagine Suzy being impressed, but hey.

Or maybe he just won it in a raffle. Or the witness was wrong.

 

[WestLondoner]

It's fascinating that Doyle gave a better description than Riglin did, yet it's always the artist sketch based on Riglin's account that's used in documentaries etc pointing at Cannan. The obvious reason for using the inferior likeness ever since is that it looks more like Cannan, who doesn't have a broken nose or look like an East End villain.

 

[WestLondoner]

The bottle of champagne would mark Kipper out as a bit of a twit, frankly, and clearly not a serious business person. Drinking at lunchtime was on the decline by 1986 and didn't really still happen among people who drove as part of their job. If you didn't know this you weren't a genuine yuppie.

 

[Konstantin]

It's fascinating that Doyle gave a better description than Riglin did, yet it's always the artist sketch based on Riglin's account that's used in documentaries etc pointing at Cannan. The obvious reason for using the inferior likeness ever since is that it looks more like Cannan, who doesn't have a broken nose or look like an East End villain.

I know, right? It's always the HR sketch that is pulled out when newspapers want to show Mr Kipper next to JC... because it looks more like him than the Doyle photofit does.

 

[su5ie]

I know, right? It's always the HR sketch that is pulled out when newspapers want to show Mr Kipper next to JC... because it looks more like him than the Doyle photofit does.

Even then its at a push and a contortion of the eyes

 

[WiseOwl]

I did start to wonder if the reconstruction showed that shot because they wanted to portray "Suzy's colleagues looking for her at the house" and thought that shot best accomplished that -- and/or filming them going inside and searching would mean the owner having the inside of his house on TV, plus if you only have time for one or two shots then perhaps they thought the outside one better tells the story? It's annoying though, because it really isn't clear if MG went inside -- it is very ambiguous from the AS narrative too.

Yes, HR seems to claim he was alerted by the sound of the door closing or something, if he is right either Suzy was inside and left or MG went inside and left... or he was just wrong.

I have to say, if I went to search for a missing colleague in a house like that and could not get inside -- I would not be content with just knocking on the door -- would you? You would worry that she had come to some grief inside and could not answer or get to the door, you would surely want to get inside and check she was not lying unconscious or worse). Looking through ground floor windows and a letterbox would hardly cut it. If I were worried enough to report someone missing to the police, I would get a locksmith to open the blooming door first if I didn't have keys myself!

The Crimewatch show has MG going to 37SR around 4.30pm. If he didn't have a set of keys and couldn't get into the property, why go back later?

As you say, AS doesn't make it clear if MG actually went inside 37SR or not. It's only the Crimewatch reconstruction that shows MG & a male colleague outside the property, which of course indicates that Suzy had taken the keys.

After he had been to 37SR, MG called DL around 5pm to tell her that Suzy had gone missing. What has never been mentioned though is that did MG visit the property that Suzy was supposed to view with a client at 6pm? One would of thought he would, just to see if Suzy did turn up for it. As we know she didn't, so if MG did make the 6pm viewing to still find no trace of Suzy, then what would be the point of going back to 37SR?

Unless he had managed to lay his hands on another set of keys?

 

[su5ie]

The Crimewatch show has MG going to 37SR around 4.30pm. If he didn't have a set of keys and couldn't get into the property, why go back later?

As you say, AS doesn't make it clear if MG actually went inside 37SR or not. It's only the Crimewatch reconstruction that shows MG & a male colleague outside the property, which of course indicates that Suzy had taken the keys.

After he had been to 37SR, MG called DL around 5pm to tell her that Suzy had gone missing. What has never been mentioned though is that did MG visit the property that Suzy was supposed to view with a client at 6pm? One would of thought he would, just to see if Suzy did turn up for it. As we know she didn't, so if MG did make the 6pm viewing to still find no trace of Suzy, then what would be the point of going back to 37SR?

Unless he had managed to lay his hands on another set of keys?

According to AS book MG attempted to report suzy as missing to police at around 5pm and as it was busy so he went to another viewing it doesnt state where or with who he then returned to the office and rang at 6.45 and a policeman called him back at 6.50 . Interestingly the policeman asked did he search inside and outside the property and he replied yes .I feel this is why the police didn't arrive at Shorrolds till the Tuesday

In the meantime PL arrived at the police station at about 7pm and he reported his daughter missing too after that I feel because the car was located at Stevenage at 10.01pm PL was brought to identify the car and the search was focused around that with the dogs plus at 12.30am P &DL also brought their dogs to search

 

[su5ie]

This is on page 8 of AS book it will probably get deleted as not a link but a screenshot

 

[Konstantin]

The Crimewatch show has MG going to 37SR around 4.30pm. If he didn't have a set of keys and couldn't get into the property, why go back later?

Yes, it is a good question -- perhaps the fact that he went back again later does suggest that he didn't actually get inside the first time, and maybe wanted to recheck to see if he had missed anything, whether he had found a set of keys or not. Bang on the door and windows again, ask the neighbour again. If you went inside and searched it and found nothing you would be less inclined to go back because what is there to check? HR had told MG he had seen the two people leaving the house too.

If he had found another set of keys, though, you'd have thought that would have made him really suspicious that SJL made up the appointment and never went to the house at all and he would have flagged that huge anomaly with the police or told someone in the office because it would have sounded pretty sinister. MG knew the office procedures and that there was just a single set of keys.

I agree, surely someone would have attended the 6pm meeting that SJL had set up with the other client...??

 

[lee sumner]

It's fascinating that Doyle gave a better description than Riglin did, yet it's always the artist sketch based on Riglin's account that's used in documentaries etc pointing at Cannan. The obvious reason for using the inferior likeness ever since is that it looks more like Cannan, who doesn't have a broken nose or look like an East End villain.

HR seen a couple outside 37 shorrolds rd at 1pm, and that lines up with SL diary entry. he told MG what he seen on the same day. that had to have been SL and MR KIPPER.

 

[lee sumner]

The bottle of champagne would mark Kipper out as a bit of a twit, frankly, and clearly not a serious business person. Drinking at lunchtime was on the decline by 1986 and didn't really still happen among people who drove as part of their job. If you didn't know this you weren't a genuine yuppie.

doyle said mr kipper had a broken nose. there is nothing unique about JC nose.

 

[Terryb808]

doyle said mr kipper had a broken nose. there is nothing unique about JC nose.

Wasn’t there a mention that it looked like it could have been due to playing rugby.
Link this to the James Galway man who was wearing a rugby shirt.
There was also a mention somewhere in AS that he looked like an East End villain IIRC.

 

[su5ie]

Wasn’t there a mention that it looked like it could have been due to playing rugby.
Link this to the James Galway man who was wearing a rugby shirt.
There was also a mention somewhere in AS that he looked like an East End villain IIRC.

This was the description given by the same guy . Henchmen are often build like rugby players . The east end villain "look" was in the 70s and 80s slicked back hair , mafia Don type suit and possibly a deviated septum due to a broken nose through the many brawls .

A man with an air of confidence and could put his money where his mouth was and seemed to be commanding of all around him would have definitely fooled suzy into thinking he was a respectable business man .we have got to remember suzy lived quite a sheltered life up until the QEII job and although she was sexually experienced and not shy socially by the time she disappeared. She would not have had street wisdom

Street smarts are a different ball game and unless you grew up in an eastend environment you would not know the difference. If the criminal has acquired a posher tone to his voice and is able to fool with the airs and graces many a woman was fooled and possibly suzy too ,these guys were ladies men .Well able to fool the ladies with the money no object wining and dining

 

[lee sumner]

Wasn’t there a mention that it looked like it could have been due to playing rugby.
Link this to the James Galway man who was wearing a rugby shirt.
There was also a mention somewhere in AS that he looked like an East End villain IIRC.

ND said he seen SL waiting on her own outside 37 shorrolds rd. i find his statement interesting because she appears to be waiting for mr kipper to arrive, and SL was known for arriving at appointments 5 mins early. if he was telling lies, he would have said he had seen her with mr kipper.

 

[lee sumner]

The bottle of champagne would mark Kipper out as a bit of a twit, frankly, and clearly not a serious business person. Drinking at lunchtime was on the decline by 1986 and didn't really still happen among people who drove as part of their job. If you didn't know this you weren't a genuine yuppie.

JC would play the yuppie part but he was allso doing armed robberies as well. he was found to have money on him that he stole doing armed blags. he was a sex predator as well as a armed robber.

 

[lee sumner]

This was the description given by the same guy . Henchmen are often build like rugby players . The east end villain "look" was in the 70s and 80s slicked back hair , mafia Don type suit and possibly a deviated septum due to a broken nose through the many brawls .

A man with an air of confidence and could put his money where his mouth was and seemed to be commanding of all around him would have definitely fooled suzy into thinking he was a respectable business man .we have got to remember suzy lived quite a sheltered life up until the QEII job and although she was sexually experienced and not shy socially by the time she disappeared. She would not have had street wisdom

Street smarts are a different ball game and unless you grew up in an eastend environment you would not know the difference. If the criminal has acquired a posher tone to his voice and is able to fool with the airs and graces many a woman was fooled and possibly suzy too ,these guys were ladies men .Well able to fool the ladies with the money no object wining and dining

i come from a working class background that makes you streetwise, but SL was very middleclass. DL comes across very posh the way she talks. SL was probably very bright, but not strretwise.

 

[lee sumner]

The bottle of champagne would mark Kipper out as a bit of a twit, frankly, and clearly not a serious business person. Drinking at lunchtime was on the decline by 1986 and didn't really still happen among people who drove as part of their job. If you didn't know this you weren't a genuine yuppie.

HR did not notice the bottle of champagne, but doyle did. i wish HR would have paid more attention to the couple.

 

[lee sumner]

Prehaps suzy was writing o/s to cover her behind . A simple explanation for her to give to bosses as to why negotiations over sale didn't begin . So excuse being client never showed I was supposed to meet them outside or client showed but wasn't interested in going inside as when they seen limited parking for example decided it wasn't for them



The police seemed to laugh a lot at possible leads or indiscrepancies pointed out to them in witness statements

why use such a bizarre name like mr kipper if she wanted to cover her behind.

 

[WestLondoner]

why use such a bizarre name like mr kipper if she wanted to cover her behind.

This is one of the weirder things. The police claim is that this was Cannan's nickname in jail. The source of this appears to be GP who herself attributed it to....JC. It is far from clear that Cannan's prison nickname was Kipper before he was mentioned in connection with SJL by the press. Thereafter, it's plausible that the other cons called him this as a form of black humour. It's not obvious why else this would previously have been his nickname. If it were, it would be dumb even by Cannan standards to use it as a fake name. As I have said before, it's as though Machine Gun Kelly or Pretty Boy Floyd were to book appointments as Mr Machine Gun or Mr Pretty Boy.

DV's suggestion that she thought it up in a nanosecond because her mate John "Herring" Kipper lived in Shorrolds actually makes more sense.