UK - Three abandoned babies (2017, 2019, 2024) full siblings found in London

[seasideForest]

Northern Ireland is part of the UK

Yes, I know. The clue is in the name: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
You mentioned "Ireland", I assumed you meant the Republic of Ireland.

Nevertheless I stand by my opinion that scandals of this nature in the Rep. of Ireland and even in Northern Ireland (where there were also mother and baby homes) are unlikely to have affected this type of law in the UK as a whole or in England and Wales on its own.

I was a bit vague and clumsy in the post you're referring to because Northern Ireland has - like Scotland - its own legal system, separate from England and Wales. Another reason to make it even less likely that something going on in secret in the past away across the Irish Sea would affect the law in E&W now. MOO

Also it takes time for any society to absorb this type of 'hidden away' and shameful action from the past, mull it over subconsciously as a people, come to grips with it, react and then take action including changes to law. IMO

Anyway, as yet there are no safe havens in Britain and probably not in NI. I haven't checked the latter but I assume there are none. Just a hunch. For abandoned babies in London, only the law in E&W is relevant.

 

[Macha]

If these are all siblings, my first unfortunate hypothesis is that they might all be products from abuse. Especially if the babies were all just abandoned out in the open, near a street, and in the elements (albeit wrapped up) instead of at a hospital, a church, a nice home's doorstep, etc. Abandoning a baby for someone else to take is supposed to be anonymous but they would definitely not want to be caught and questioned. MOO.

Does the United Kingdom have anything similar to the Safe Haven Laws (a.k.a Baby Moses's Laws) and baby boxes in the United States?

I agree that a major downside to baby boxes and Safe Haven Laws is that adopters have no idea about the medical history of the parents, which would be beneficial for the child's healthcare. Aside from humbly asking mothers/parents leaving their kids in a box to leave a note stating any potential health issues with the infant, I don't think there's a way to fix it. It is just a risk adopters have to take. MOO.

Hopefully Harry and Roman went to good homes and Elsa will also get a good home soon. <

RIGHT - that got me thinking, isn't London known for having CCTV practically everywhere? (Ignorant American here, my apologies if I'm 1000% wrong)

All three babies were found close to the Greenway which is a path on top of the sewer bank from London to the Thames at Becton. There are no cameras on the Greenway. The borough is Newham, one of the roughest and poorest in the United Kingdom. It is also a diverse population of immigrants. The parents obviously live close to the Greenway. I know the area well.

 

[steeltowngirl]

All three babies were found close to the Greenway which is a path on top of the sewer bank from London to the Thames at Becton. There are no cameras on the Greenway. The borough is Newham, one of the roughest and poorest in the United Kingdom. It is also a diverse population of immigrants. The parents obviously live close to the Greenway. I know the area well.

Possibly a unhoused couple? Perhaps they shelter in the underground sewer system.

 

[Macha]

Possibly a unhoused couple? Perhaps they shelter in the underground sewer system.

Definitely not underground in the sewer. That's not possible.
I feel that some poor girl/woman is being abused and she doesn't know where to get help due to cultural differences possibly.

 

[cuffem]

I have some questions about birth control. Is it readily available in the UK? Is it expensive? You would think with this happening the first time they would not want to continue getting pregnant unless of religious beliefs against birth control. Would using condoms be apart of that religious belief?

 

[Sarahlou]

I have some questions about birth control. Is it readily available in the UK? Is it expensive? You would think with this happening the first time they would not want to continue getting pregnant unless of religious beliefs against birth control. Would using condoms be apart of that religious belief?

Absolutely. The contraceptive pill is free. You can get free condoms at sexual health clinics too.

But I don't think this situation with this couple is a normal relationship, it feels like an abusive situation to me.

 

[cuffem]

Absolutely. The contraceptive pill is free. I think you can get free condoms at sexual health clinics too.

But I don't think this situation with this couple is a normal relationship, it feels like an abusive situation to me.

That is fantastic that birth control pills are free in the UK. Wish it were so here in the US.

My thinking is wouldn't the male contributor not want the births also even if he is an abuser, so be more inclined to use at least condoms?
I am thinking religion and /or finances could have a play in this.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Definitely not underground in the sewer. That's not possible.
I feel that some poor girl/woman is being abused and she doesn't know where to get help due to cultural differences possibly.

Ugh. I had meant to type underground subway system. Perhaps called tube station in London.

I agree, this reeks of an abuse situation. A woman with mental challenges or as you note, cultural challenges.

 

[nao]

Moo...not all females can take the pill, the pill can cause health problems for some. Condoms...well there are a lot of baby daddies out there, with no interest in babies....moo.

 

[Pseudonymph]

Yes, I know. The clue is in the name: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
You mentioned "Ireland", I assumed you meant the Republic of Ireland.

Nevertheless I stand by my opinion that scandals of this nature in the Rep. of Ireland and even in Northern Ireland (where there were also mother and baby homes) are unlikely to have affected this type of law in the UK as a whole or in England and Wales on its own.

I was a bit vague and clumsy in the post you're referring to because Northern Ireland has - like Scotland - its own legal system, separate from England and Wales. Another reason to make it even less likely that something going on in secret in the past away across the Irish Sea would affect the law in E&W now. MOO

I knew all that, but I will bow to your expertise. I am glad to know the US is doing something right in this area.

 

[BreadnLumpit]

I have some questions about birth control. Is it readily available in the UK? Is it expensive? You would think with this happening the first time they would not want to continue getting pregnant unless of religious beliefs against birth control. Would using condoms be apart of that religious belief?

All birth control is free in the UK: contraceptive pill, IUD, implants, injections, Dutch cap and condoms.

But you need to engage with the (also free at point of use) health care system in order to access it and engaging with the system means proving that you are entitled to use it.

That unfortunately means that illegal immigrants, for example, would be unable to access either contraception or general health care, and questions would certainly be asked if, say a doctor were asked to provide contraception for, say a woman with severe learning difficulties whose only male contact was a familial carer.

There are a number of situations where a woman could fall through the cracks of the system sadly.

 

[iamshadow21]

Made the news here in Australia. Has pictures of older siblings Harry and Roman as infants.

Three babies were abandoned in London over seven years. A DNA test revealed a devastating truth

The saga started in 2017, and this week, a court challenge revealed new details about three newborns left within kilometres of each other in east London. The "extremely rare" occurrence has put the spotlight on child abandonment — a phenomenon some say is poorly understood.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Susikatze]

All birth control is free in the UK: contraceptive pill, IUD, implants, injections, Dutch cap and condoms.

But you need to engage with the (also free at point of use) health care system in order to access it and engaging with the system means proving that you are entitled to use it.

That unfortunately means that illegal immigrants, for example, would be unable to access either contraception or general health care, and questions would certainly be asked if, say a doctor were asked to provide contraception for, say a woman with severe learning difficulties whose only male contact was a familial carer.

There are a number of situations where a woman could fall through the cracks of the system sadly.

I also believe and am afraid it may be some sort of abuse situation, probably unregistered immigrants, maybe a young woman being held captive somewhere by a "husband", "employer", "boyfriend" or family member.

I wish they could pinpoint the genetic heritage of the babies - theyre fully Black, but they could be Carribbean or from virtually anywhere in West, Central or East Africa. Would be important to see which community the parents may be located in. On the other hand, i guess it is hard, because the parents do not want to be found and if they feel threatened, further babies would likely be killed. But the mother may need help.

I think a sexworker having babies regularily and being forced to give them up is not the case here because they are all full siblings, the parents are in a longterm "relationship".

 

[steeltowngirl]

Made the news here in Australia. Has pictures of older siblings Harry and Roman as infants.

Three babies were abandoned in London over seven years. A DNA test revealed a devastating truth

The saga started in 2017, and this week, a court challenge revealed new details about three newborns left within kilometres of each other in east London. The "extremely rare" occurrence has put the spotlight on child abandonment — a phenomenon some say is poorly understood.

www.abc.net.au

Wait… I thought earlier reports said the children were FULL biological siblings - same mother AND father. The linked article says:

Authorities have not said whether the children have the same father.

"But we shouldn't forget that there is a father, it could be that the father isn't there, and that means the mother doesn't have that support," Dr Mueller said.

"It could be that the father has come to this conclusion with the mother, that this is something to do. It could be that the mother has a difficult relationship with the father.

"But clearly, it's worth considering the role of the father in this situation, whether there is a role for the father and if so, what that role might have been."

 

[iamshadow21]

Wait… I thought earlier reports said the children were FULL biological siblings - same mother AND father. The linked article says:

Authorities have not said whether the children have the same father.

"But we shouldn't forget that there is a father, it could be that the father isn't there, and that means the mother doesn't have that support," Dr Mueller said.

"It could be that the father has come to this conclusion with the mother, that this is something to do. It could be that the mother has a difficult relationship with the father.

"But clearly, it's worth considering the role of the father in this situation, whether there is a role for the father and if so, what that role might have been."

Usually the ABC (Australia) is very accurate, but in this case I would defer to publications like the BBC, purely because they are in the country where this is happening, and ABC is reporting remotely from the opposite side of the world.

MOO

 

[vereb]

The original BBC report has these quotes:

An expert told the court that, in his opinion, the genetic findings provided extremely strong scientific support for the view that Baby Elsa was “a full sibling” of the other two babies.

[Carol Atkinson, the most senior judge in East London Family Court] said the fact the three babies were full siblings was, for the same reason, “of enormous interest” in “our current society”.

Abandoned baby Elsa is third newborn deserted by same parents - BBC News

DNA tests have confirmed all three infants found in east London are full siblings, the BBC can report.

www.bbc.com

 

[Twittens]

Glad to have found this thread. I've been wondering whether this case would be a valid exception to the UK and European rules about searching DNA databases. I think there have been some exceptions but there's huge anxiety about the thin end of the wedge etc if databases get used for regular crime solving. This is genuinely an exceptional scenario though, imo, in the sense of being a rarity, and also is not just about prurient curiosity about the siblings, who can be connected as they grow up if that's thought to be beneficial anyway, so much as safeguarding the mother, who in all likelihood is very vulnerable.

Regarding baby hatches, I think in the UK the 'traditional' place to abandon babies was telephone boxes, which ofc are much rarer than they were. I had a colleague a long time ago who'd been left in a phone box by his mother, and while he struggled greatly with abandonment, he took a lot of comfort from the fact that she'd cared enough to leave him somewhere sheltered and where he was likely to be found. He subsequently found that she'd also watched from a discreet distance to make sure he was rescued promptly.

Access to contraception and TOP if necessary thankfully makes such drastic actions less necessary than yesteryear, so it would seem these children's mother is at the very least unable to access women's health care freely. I really hope she can be found and helped. Given Elsa was only an hour old, it seems unlikely to me that her mother is the one doing the physical abandoning, which begs the question of whether she is really aware of what's happening to her babies, still less consenting to it.

All MOO.

 

[Twittens]

I hadn't appreciated that there'd been a sighting of a woman in the area just before Elsa was found, who might perhaps be her mother:

Officers also previously expressed concern for the mother’s welfare and urged her to come forward, with a woman spotted entering the Greenway from the High Street South entrance at around 8.45pm on January 18.

Chief Superintendent Simon Crick, lead for policing in Newham, said in January: “We believe the woman is black, was wearing a large dark coat with a light-coloured scarf or hood around her neck, and had a rucksack on her back.”

Elsa was found at 9.15pm on 18 January and was thought only to be about an hour old, so if the woman described was her mother, that would mean she was up and about 30 minutes after giving birth. Tbh, that makes me wonder if the woman was in fact someone else even if she was the one who brought Elsa to the Greenway - perhaps a relative or an unrelated person with some control over Elsa' mother. The rucksack might suggest homelessness - or equally might not, I guess.

That's a pretty good description though, and even if there was no cctv specifically where Elsa was left, you might hope that cctv positions in the immediate area were studied closely to see if the same woman was picked up again nearby, either that day or any other time.

Mother of baby abandoned in shopping bag still not found, court told

 

[steeltowngirl]

This is genuinely an exceptional scenario though, imo, in the sense of being a rarity, and also is not just about prurient curiosity about the siblings, who can be connected as they grow up if that's thought to be beneficial anyway, so much as safeguarding the mother, who in all likelihood is very vulnerable.

^RSBM
Been thinking a lot about your excellent post, and especially the part I have bolded. I truly hope that the powers-to-be understand that the children have a right to know. They had no control over the circumstances of their births. They do have a right to learn of their biological relationship, and to have enough knowledge to connect in the future, should they choose to do so.

I’ve mentioned before on another thread that I was born to a teen mother and left at the hospital. Back then, ’angel’ nurses would know of people looking to adopt abandoned babies. I went to a nice family, but grew up as an only child without siblings to older parents who passed when I was still a young adult. Thankfully, my birth mother left enough information that I was able to later locate my 3 FULL siblings, with whom I formed and have continued a family relationship. We cherish our bond.

Point being, IMO, it’s not up to officials to determine what is beneficial for these children. It’s their birthright to know as much as possible about their own identities. I am unfamiliar with British orphan law, but perhaps the children’s original birth certificates can be amended to include the known siblings’ information. It would allow the children to be able to make a choice in the future to connect with one another. It’s their choice to make, not the government’s.

All jmo

 

[nhmemorymaker]

^RSBM
Been thinking a lot about your excellent post, and especially the part I have bolded. I truly hope that the powers-to-be understand that the children have a right to know. They had no control over the circumstances of their births. They do have a right to learn of their biological relationship, and to have enough knowledge to connect in the future, should they choose to do so.

I’ve mentioned before on another thread that I was born to a teen mother and left at the hospital. Back then, ’angel’ nurses would know of people looking to adopt abandoned babies. I went to a nice family, but grew up as an only child without siblings to older parents who passed when I was still a young adult. Thankfully, my birth mother left enough information that I was able to later locate my 3 FULL siblings, with whom I formed and have continued a family relationship. We cherish our bond.

Point being, IMO, it’s not up to officials to determine what is beneficial for these children. It’s their birthright to know as much as possible about their own identities. I am unfamiliar with British orphan law, but perhaps the children’s original birth certificates can be amended to include the known siblings’ information. It would allow the children to be able to make a choice in the future to connect with one another. It’s their choice to make, not the government’s.

All jmo

Thank you for your loving personal story.
I have two friends who were teen moms and gave their child up for adoption. (One from Pittsburgh !!!, late late 60s)
Both did reconnect with their babies many many years later.
One has a fair and decent relationship.
One is very close to her birth mom and her two half siblings.
And the pictures are amazing .... the adopted daughter looks exactly like her mother! So much more than her half sisters. I just find it wonderful that all the siblings have bonded so. Just as you have said.