GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #3

[TheTruthWillOut]

I don't recall ever reading one way or the other - just "sniffer dogs."

In the Met's Apology statement they refer to the dog that went in the house Wed as a "body recovery dog".

I'm not sure if this means it is a cadaver dog.

 

[Skigh]

o/t but on another English true crime note, apparently Ian Brady has given up the location of victim Keith Bennett's body. Police also arrested a woman in south Wales in connection with the case. Story at Mirror, here. And WS Moors Murders thread here.

Just looked at the mirror link. It makes it read as if Brady gave this woman the information which she has not passed on.

I wonder how near death Brady now is.

 

[wfgodot]

Just looked at the mirror link. It makes it read as if Brady gave this woman the information which she has not passed on.

I wonder how near death Brady now is.

Yes, she definitely - if guilty - learned the information later, as she would have been only at most a year old when Keith Bennett was murdered in 1964.

Good article in Northern Echo here. Okay, back on topic. Again, WS MM thread here.

 

[Skigh]

In the Met's Apology statement they refer to the dog that went in the house Wed as a "body recovery dog".

I'm not sure if this means it is a cadaver dog.

Dogs are trained to sniff out live and dead bodies so rather ambiguous.

If one takes the view that it would be hard to conceal a living Tia in the house that size after one police search and various family members in it ,then it would be more likely to be searching a dead body.Perhaps Cadaver dog would be too brutal a term for some people.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Dogs are trained to sniff out live and dead bodies so rather ambiguous.

If one takes the view that it would be hard to conceal a living Tia in the house that size after one police search and various family members in it ,then it would be more likely to be searching a dead body.Perhaps Cadaver dog would be too brutal a term for some people.

That's the word......Ambiguous. I guess the apology statement was written by the met's lawyers. Wording it "body recovery dog" is both legally wise and more respectful to the family.

 

[Cherwell]

On Friday morning CS did not know where her daughter was

To be more precise, she told the media that she didn't know where her daughter was. This may not have been the truth. If Natalie had gone elsewhere to avoid being besieged by reporters and photographers, her mother was hardly likely to point them in the right direction.

 

[India99]

To be more precise, she told the media that she didn't know where her daughter was. This may not have been the truth. If Natalie had gone elsewhere to avoid being besieged by reporters and photographers, her mother was hardly likely to point them in the right direction.

Not sure why, there was no love lost between them which was made quite publicly by the way she spoke about her own daughter on her own FB account

 

[Cherwell]

Maybe she really didn't know, then. I'm just making the point that we shouldn't take everything at face value. Especially what people say to the press, because they often have their own agenda.

 

[Suzy-sue]

I was wondering another theory - what if Tia had left the house as per SH's version of events but 'enemies' of SH got hold of her and killed her and somehow got her body back in the house - SH may have habits they may know of e.g. he could have gone out for a paper or something at the same time each day or when SH and CS went to look for her and the 'enemies' got in to the house and dumped her body in the loft.... such a bizarre case anything seems possible...

 

[India99]

I was wondering another theory - what if Tia had left the house as per SH's version of events but 'enemies' of SH got hold of her and killed her and somehow got her body back in the house - SH may have habits they may know of e.g. he could have gone out for a paper or something at the same time each day or when SH and CS went to look for her and the 'enemies' got in to the house and dumped her body in the loft.... such a bizarre case anything seems possible...

as much as the people on that estate are not exactly nice , i for one will pretty much say that none of them are that evil.

you have to remember that even the most horrible people on that estate are parents too.

even the most hardened of criminals are totally different when it comes to kids.

i could name a few places in London where that theory would no doubt happen but not New Addington.

 

[laserdisc10]

If, as has been said, SH knew the house would be searched on Friday and if he is the killer, he may have shot through to indulge in one last booze session before the inevitable occurred and he was taken in. Maybe he had plans to make 'a dash for freedom' but first he needed a drink and that led to his forgetting the great plan. Or maybe he hoped someone would lend him money to make a bolt for it and that came to nought too

The pamphlets may have been what he planned to use as justification if police stopped and questioned him while he was making his way from the house

How many times during the previous week had he gone out with missing-pamphlets ? I have no idea, but didn't he claim on tv that the police, media and crowds were preventing him from searching as he wanted to do? Coincidentally, those same police and media etc. were no obstacle just at the point police were to arrive to search the premises again?

Perhaps he begged CS for money to get away and she gave him 20 Pounds - which he promptly spent on booze

The maudlin, vodka-induced weeping witnessed in the town may have been just more pity-me or conscious acting. ' I want things back to normal ', he's reported to have said. Who wouldn't, when on the verge of arrest

 

[MobyBluff]

From a reporter...."Post-mortem fails to establish "formal" cause of Tia's death. Police waiting for results of more tests".

So how can the PM be concluded if they are still awaiting results of further tests? I don't get it.

 

[Inge Jones]

Post Mortem I believe refers to the operation on the body itself - short for post mortem examination. Of course post mortem tests can continue on the tissues and samples collected during the post mortem examination, but the body can be released for disposal as soon as everyone is sure they have all the samples from it they will need.

 

[MobyBluff]

Post Mortem I believe refers to the operation on the body itself - short for post mortem examination. Of course post mortem tests can continue on the tissues and samples collected during the post mortem examination, but the body can be released for disposal as soon as everyone is sure they have all the samples from it they will need.

thanks.....and no "formal" cause of death has been established....does that imply they have an "informal" cause?

 

[Inge Jones]

They probbaly have a working hypothesis based on what they can see so far, and may be expecting test results to back that up. Eventually they will formally record a cause of death or it will formally be "Unknown". All the way through this case, I think we can understand the word "formal" to mean "recorded and signed"

 

[Clio]

Vincent Taback initially put in a non guilty plea then changed it to manslaughter but I am not sure at what stage he changed his plea.

IIRC he had to change his plea after he told the prison chaplain what he'd done. After admitting he'd killed her, he could no longer plead not guilty to murder so he tried using manslaughter in an attempt to reduce his sentence

 

[Inge Jones]

I always thought a chaplain or priest, like doctors, are obliged to keep these confessions confidential. Now it comes back to me, I do remember feeling a little appalled that apparently the chaplain had claimed that talking to him was confidential or Tabak had reason to believe it was.

 

[Clio]

You are probably right. I remember the picture of the German Shepherd coming out of the door with a toy in its mouth which made me think it has found something.

After that the amount of police searching the local woods significantly increased.

I have nothing to back this up and I could be getting my timing totally wrong but I think I can recall a police press conference being cancelled after this

Dog(s) went in on Wed 8th and Friday 10th. It was Friday 10th when the scheduled press conference was cancelled due to the "pre-arranged" search. The Friday search may have been "pre-arranged" but IMHO it was brought forward.

 

[Clio]

I always thought a chaplain or priest, like doctors, are obliged to keep these confessions confidential. Now it comes back to me, I do remember feeling a little appalled that apparently the chaplain had claimed that talking to him was confidential or Tabak had reason to believe it was.

Yes I believe the chaplain told him the conversation was confidential when he shouldn't have. At the time, people checked the prison rules and it stated that the Chaplaincy works as part of the prison and cannot, therefore, guarantee confidentiality.

 

[Snoopy2012]

http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk...year-old-let/story-16726270-detail/story.html

"Had no bedroom of her own at the family flat in Lancaster Avenue, Mitcham; using the front room settee as her bed and keeping her clothes in carrier bags".

IMO This would explain claims by AN and CS that she spent most weekends with them.