GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #3

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Snoopy2012 said:
http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk...year-old-let/story-16726270-detail/story.html

"Had no bedroom of her own at the family flat in Lancaster Avenue, Mitcham; using the front room settee as her bed and keeping her clothes in carrier bags".

IMO This would explain claims by AN and CS that she spent most weekends with them.
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This struck me from the same article:
"Had a deteriorating attendance record and began playing truant from school

Began struggling with schoolwork, with her attainment levels dropping"

Usually this kind of behaviour indicates trouble at home and/ or abuse.

It may just have been that TS was sleeping in the living room and may not have been able to get to sleep until the 'adults' went to bed but even so - in the same circumstances, my child would be in my room and I would have slept on the sofa. Poor, poor child. :(
 
Well that's the fault of the council for not rehousing them as they should have done. However, better organised parents would probably have given their daughter their room, and slept in the living room themselves. It makes more sense that way, since otherwise the girl has to wait until the adults go to bed before she can go to sleep herself.
 
Inge Jones said:
Well that's the fault of the council for not rehousing them as they should have done. However, better organised parents would probably have given their daughter their room, and slept in the living room themselves. It makes more sense that way, since otherwise the girl has to wait until the adults go to bed before she can go to sleep herself.
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Not the fault of the family for having more children than were appropriate to their circumstances?
 
I think most responsible parents would agree. At 12-years old, TS was on the brink of becoming a teenager, needing her own space and some privacy. If it were my child then I too would be sleeping elsewhere and the children would be in the bedrooms. My heart really does break when I think about this poor little mite.
 
Adorabella said:
Not the fault of the family for having more children than were appropriate to their circumstances?
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I don't think 3 children is an unreasonable number, and it's natural to want a family with your current partner - who seems to be a good factor in their lives. Anyway I have a bee in my bonnet about how councils have been selling off affordable housing and not replacing it. And then there is the controversy over what categories of people get priority on the few available council rentals.
 
I note that DS has kept a low profile for the last week, having not been mentioned in articles, photographed laying flowers etc... Bit odd bearing in mind that he was the one at the forefront of the campaign to find TS.

Also, this may have been mentioned already and I missed it... Why on earth did he have 2 cronies with him when doing the press conference? Two family members I can understand and would consider normal - 2 friends just seemed odd to me.
 
Inge Jones said:
I don't think 3 children is an unreasonable number, and it's natural to want a family with your current partner - who seems to be a good factor in their lives. Anyway I have a bee in my bonnet about how councils have been selling off affordable housing and not replacing it. And then there is the controversy over what categories of people get priority on the few available council rentals.
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I know this is off subject but I do think it's unreasonable, when you are expecting subsidised housing because you do not have the means to provide and look after the children you choose to bring into the world.

Perhaps if they had lived within their means and had only had the amount of children they could actually look after or afford/ house appropriately then poor TS would not be lying on a slab in a mortuary right now.
 
Snoopy2012 said:
I note that DS has kept a low profile for the last week, having not been mentioned in articles, photographed laying flowers etc... Bit odd bearing in mind that he was the one at the forefront of the campaign to find TS.
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Given that he has lost his niece the circumstances I find it absolutely normal that he would want to keep out of the public eye - now that there is no search
 
Adorabella said:
I know this is off subject but I do think it's unreasonable, when you are expecting subsidised housing because you do not have the means to provide and look after the children you choose to bring into the world.

Perhaps if they had lived within their means and had only had the amount of children they could actually look after or afford/ house appropriately then poor TS would not be lying on a slab in a mortuary right now.
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Guys, we are getting carried away here. This article says these are allegations. She may well have her own bedroom.
 
No I am sorry Adorabella, I refuse to accept the attitude that has been encouraged in recent years. I can still remember a time when council housing was for decent working class people who were working - because in those days there were the types of jobs you could do if you were not naturally academic. Plenty of factories for example, and plenty of both council and private property to rent for your whole life, both private and public sector. It was not considered as somewhere to put people who couldn't manage their own affairs. These days of needing a degree for most employment, and reduced secure rentals (private sector usually has 6 month contracts under new laws, and you end up moving nearly every year) have seen perfectly decent and willing-to-work families no longer able to cope.
 
Inge Jones said:
No I am sorry Adorabella, I refuse to accept the attitude that has been encouraged in recent years. I can still remember a time when council housing was for decent working class people who were working - because in those days there were the types of jobs you could do if you were not naturally academic. Plenty of factories for example, and plenty of both council and private property to rent for your whole life, both private and public sector. It was not considered as somewhere to put people who couldn't manage their own affairs. These days of needing a degree for most employment, and reduced secure rentals (private sector usually has 6 month contracts under new laws, and you end up moving nearly every year) have seen perfectly decent and willing-to-work families no longer able to cope.
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Shall we start a new thread for this discussion?
 
MobyBluff said:
Guys, we are getting carried away here. This article says these are allegations. She may well have her own bedroom.
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As are most of the other things printed in the papers... But it has still filled 100+ pages on here with comments. At the end of the day, it's all just speculation. Nobody knows what the circumstances were/what happened apart from those directly involved.
 
Inge Jones said:
No I am sorry Adorabella, I refuse to accept the attitude that has been encouraged in recent years. I can still remember a time when council housing was for decent working class people who were working - because in those days there were the types of jobs you could do if you were not naturally academic. Plenty of factories for example, and plenty of both council and private property to rent for your whole life, both private and public sector. It was not considered as somewhere to put people who couldn't manage their own affairs. These days of needing a degree for most employment, and reduced secure rentals (private sector usually has 6 month contracts under new laws, and you end up moving nearly every year) have seen perfectly decent and willing-to-work families no longer able to cope.
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I think my view stems from the fact that I was a child who was brought into the world by a parent who had no idea how they would provide for me so spent a large part of my life in care and was sexually abused from the age of 5-20. It has obviously affected everything about my life (which from the outside looks like an incredibly fortunate life, and I guess I am - I am still alive) BUT I do carry the emotional scars of that selfish behaviour every moment of every day. Just because people would like a child and it is apparently their right - unless they are able to provide adequately for that child (in all ways) clearly it sometimes ends in horrendous tragedy.
 
Adorabella said:
I know this is off subject but I do think it's unreasonable, when you are expecting subsidised housing because you do not have the means to provide and look after the children you choose to bring into the world.

Perhaps if they had lived within their means and had only had the amount of children they could actually look after or afford/ house appropriately then poor TS would not be lying on a slab in a mortuary right now.
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I think its rather poor taste to be blaming TS's parents financial circumstances. Chilldren spend time with their grandparents, something that cross all socioeconomic groupings, so the suggestion that TS was killed purely because her parents are poor is ludicrous.
 
We don't know NS or DN situation but Tia deserved her own bedroom regardless of her parents financial/employment status or how many other children they decide to have. If her parents were unable to provide that through lack of employment/fecklessness/illness or whatever, the council should have been on the case.

Most parents do everything they can to provide the best for their children, those that don't/can't shouldn't be allowed to slip through the net and the best should be done for that child in whatever way possible. If that means some undeserving parents get a larger house then I for one would rather that than end up with this situation.

Rip Tia. x
 
user484 said:
I think its rather poor taste to be blaming TS's parents financial circumstances. Chilldren spend time with their grandparents, something that cross all socioeconomic groupings, so the suggestion that TS was killed purely because her parents are poor is ludicrous.
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I am not blaming her death on their financial circumstances, or even on their lack of responsibility, in that they had her allegedly sleeping on the sofa as there were too few bedrooms for them all, which may have lead to her spending more and more time with her G'ma and her unsavoury partner - and that if I were TS parent, I would have given up my own room for her to sleep in.

The blame lies squarely with the perpetrator of the crime.
 
laurielee said:
We don't know NS or DN situation but Tia deserved her own bedroom regardless of her parents financial/employment status or how many other children they decide to have. If her parents were unable to provide that through lack of employment/fecklessness/illness or whatever, the council should have been on the case.

Most parents do everything they can to provide the best for their children, those that don't/can't shouldn't be allowed to slip through the net and the best should be done for that child in whatever way possible. If that means some undeserving parents get a larger house then I for one would rather that than end up with this situation.

Rip Tia. x
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This is already catered for, if there is overcrowding (which has a specific definition), families get a larger council house.
 
I wonder how many bedrooms the flat has. If it just has 2, then I guess the parents had one, and the young boys the other. Maybe they'd applied for a bigger house and were on the waiting list. Whatever, it means that Tia had no privacy at all, no place to call her own. Clothes in carrier bags? It's as if she were an unwanted 'extra'.
 
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