GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #3

[kaos]

behind the bath panel.... although you'd expect that to have been one of the first places to have been searched.... I dont think it was moved from when he first put Tia up there.



articles now been removed, but it was reported that Police removed a "large black holdall" from CS's house (beginning of articles can be seen on 'google news')

http://news.google.co.uk/news/story...a=X&ei=etIvUMWLDqi80QXXiYHoDQ&ved=0CDEQqgIwAA

I always think it must bare relevance if the Police have removed certain stuff from the web.

There have been occassion when I have had to get something into my loft (haven't got ladders) ... I empty out the tall chest of drawers and drag the carcass to under the loft hatch, place article on carcass, climb in the loft from standing on carcass, lean out and pick up article (would be easy to grab the handles of a 'holdall') and pull up into loft...... right fricking palaver that I have only done twice!!

I knew I'd seen footage of a black holdall but I dismissed it at the time as I thought they'd have to bag the holdall itself as evidence rather than walk freely out of the house with it so I thought this must belong to the officer.

Tia Sharpe: Police To Increase The Search For Missing Tia - YouTube

 

[wfgodot]

Not trying to poach posters, but here's a thread which may be of interest: a murder inquiry in Wolverhampton:

UK - Murder inquiry into death of ex-headmistress, 90, conned by thieves at her home

 

[India99]

We're not privy to information which would explain why PM was charged, obviously. It's possible he confessed to police (under questioning and after the body was discovered) that he had deliberately and falsely claimed to police (during the week of searching) that he'd seen the victim after she'd allegedly left CS's house shortly after noon on Friday

i didn't think he'd been charged with anything yet.

 

[laserdisc10]

i didn't think he'd been charged with anything yet.

I probably used the wrong terminology. After four in the morning here. Was tossing up, 'arrested'/'charged'. No doubt you're correct and the correct term would have been 'arrested' then bailed. Thanks

 

[kaos]

We're not privy to information which would explain why PM was charged, obviously. It's possible he confessed to police (under questioning and after the body was discovered) that he had deliberately and falsely claimed to police (during the week of searching) that he'd seen the victim after she'd allegedly left CS's house shortly after noon on Friday

Taken from the CPS website http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/public_justice_offences_incorporating_the_charging_standard/

Offences Concerning the Police

Obstructing a Police Officer
Wasting Police Time
Misrepresentation as to identity
Impersonating a Police Officer
Refusing to Assist a Constable

Offences Concerning Prisoners and Offenders

Failing to Surrender to Bail
Escape/Breach of Prison
Harbouring Escaped Prisoners
Assisting an Offender

Offences Concerning the Coroner

Obstructing a Coroner - Preventing the Burial of a Body


The first two would be more suitable charges if PM just led them on a wild goose chase and the last one - preventing the burial of a body would be suitable if he knew there was a body at all so the assisting an offender points to enabling SH to get away from the police IMO.

 

[Clio]

i didn't think he'd been charged with anything yet.

No he hasn't AFAIK. Arrested and bailed but not charged

 

[Luna15]

I knew I'd seen footage of a black holdall but I dismissed it at the time as I thought they'd have to bag the holdall itself as evidence rather than walk freely out of the house with it so I thought this must belong to the officer.

Tia Sharpe: Police To Increase The Search For Missing Tia - YouTube

Great find!

Well, Tia wasn't transported into the loft with that..... BUT the reporter said "It’s believed to have contained quilts and bedding”..... possibly where the "black sheet" came from?? if so, I wouldn't expect CS to have noticed a missing sheet if it was kept in that....

interesting to see her going into the house with a box of washing powder.... I know people do all sorts of things in grief....... but 'washing' :what:

 

[India99]

I probably used the wrong terminology. After four in the morning here. Was tossing up, 'arrested'/'charged'. No doubt you're correct and the correct term would have been 'arrested' then bailed. Thanks

i actually thought i'd missed him being charged lol

 

[laserdisc10]

Taken from the CPS website http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/public_justice_offences_incorporating_the_charging_standard/

Offences Concerning the Police

Obstructing a Police Officer
Wasting Police Time
Misrepresentation as to identity
Impersonating a Police Officer
Refusing to Assist a Constable

Offences Concerning Prisoners and Offenders

Failing to Surrender to Bail
Escape/Breach of Prison
Harbouring Escaped Prisoners
Assisting an Offender

Offences Concerning the Coroner

Obstructing a Coroner - Preventing the Burial of a Body


The first two would be more suitable charges if PM just led them on a wild goose chase and the last one - preventing the burial of a body would be suitable if he knew there was a body at all so the assisting an offender points to enabling SH to get away from the police IMO.

'Assisting an offender' was I think, the term cited by the media. Many here have offered an interpretation, based on the little we actually know. Interpretations have of course been influenced by the fact he's been bailed. That he was bailed has been topic of discussion also

What are your thoughts on the matter ?

Edit: took ages to get the edit-function up. Just to say that my question was redundant as it appears you suspect the 'assisting an offender' arrest was because he'd assisted SH to get away

 

[Luna15]

Not trying to poach posters, but here's a thread which may be of interest: a murder inquiry in Wolverhampton:

UK - Murder inquiry into death of ex-headmistress, 90, conned by thieves at her home

just saw that on the News; it scares the life out of me.... my Nan is 99 and I continually worry about things like that...

God Bless that lady - to make it to 90 and then be literally robbed of your life in that way

They'll get them.... I feel confident of that..... just not so confident of the 'justice' they'll face.

 

[kaos]

'Assisting an offender' was I think, the term cited by the media. Many here have offered an interpretation, based on the little we actually know. Interpretations have of course been influenced by the fact he's been bailed. That he was bailed has been topic of discussion also

What are your thoughts on the matter ?

I think he knew that the body had been found - possibly as he was in the house next door at the time. The police would have prevented everyone in the next houses from being able to come out of their houses and/or they could also have mentioned that she'd been found. My opinion is that he phoned SH to let him know.

 

[laserdisc10]

I think he knew that the body had been found - possibly as he was in the house next door at the time. The police would have prevented everyone in the next houses from being able to come out of their houses and/or they could also have mentioned that she'd been found. My opinion is that he phoned SH to let him know.

You could well be right, but wasn't CS escorted from the house by police prior to the search and didn't she say prior to the search that she didn't know where SH was, only that he'd gone to do his thing some time earlier?

 

[Adorabella]

'Assisting an offender' was I think, the term cited by the media. Many here have offered an interpretation, based on the little we actually know. Interpretations have of course been influenced by the fact he's been bailed. That he was bailed has been topic of discussion also

What are your thoughts on the matter ?

Edit: took ages to get the edit-function up. Just to say that my question was redundant as it appears you suspect the 'assisting an offender' arrest was because he'd assisted SH to get away

I posted a quote from The Sun a few days ago that said that PM had been arrested for giving a false statement (or words to that effect), as far as I remember. Isn't PM (one of) the independent witness(es) who apparently saw Tia walking down the path on the Friday...?

 

[kaos]

Great find!

Well, Tia wasn't transported into the loft with that..... BUT the reporter said "It’s believed to have contained quilts and bedding”..... possibly where the "black sheet" came from?? if so, I wouldn't expect CS to have noticed a missing sheet if it was kept in that....

interesting to see her going into the house with a box of washing powder.... I know people do all sorts of things in grief....... but 'washing' :what:

The washing powder intrigued me earlier in the thread but I couldn't find a date anywhere of when she went for it but finally found these articles.

published tues 7th august 10.32am

http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/9859362.Tia_Sharp_s_step_father_makes_emotional_plea/

Tia's grandmother Christine Sharp and step-dad David Niles recently returned to the house with shopping.

note: that article also mentions there was no police presence there that morning.

published 10th august 01.36am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/missing-tia-sharp-grandma-christine-1245032

She made no comment as she returned at around 2.30pm carrying two packets of cigarettes and a box of washing powder.

I'm taking from those articles that she's went off to the shops twice as the second article says she went out "around midday yesterday afternoon" - which would be the 8th or 9th. I know it may seem trivial but wouldn't you just get somebody else who was in the house to go and get what you needed whilst you're anxiously waiting for the phone to ring from your grandaughter?

 

[laserdisc10]

I posted a quote from The Sun a few days ago that said that PM had been arrested for giving a false statement (or words to that effect), as far as I remember. Isn't PM (one of) the independent witness(es) who apparently saw Tia walking down the path on the Friday...?

Well we've all presumed him to be (one of the independant witnesses) who claimed to have seen Tia walking past on Friday and as forming basis for assertions by SH (and other family members) that he, SH, was not the last person to see Tia alive

Always the chance we're wrong, of course

 

[kaos]

You could well be right, but wasn't CS escorted from the house by police prior to the search and didn't she say prior to the search that she didn't know where SH was, only that he'd gone to do his thing some time earlier?

Yes, CS was escorted by the police but no arrest was made until later whilst at the police station but PM could still have been home during that time.

I can't find the timeline now but I thought CS and PM were arrested after SH was found.

 

[user484]

If the media is correct in asserting a door exists between the lofts of neighbouring flats, I wonder if SH asked to store 'something' in PM's loft space. Given that the charge he was bailed on was "Assisting an Offender" it makes me wonder whether SH told PM something which implicated SH of committing an offence (but likely not murder), asked to store something (on the understanding that PM shouldn't visit the loft space, so not to incriminate himself).

Though it should be remembered that the police have apologised, so they were definately remiss in terms of searching the loft space. Could it be that the body was moved between searches, and the appearance of the bag wasn't realised?

 

[Adorabella]

Well we've all presumed him to be (one of the independant witnesses) who claimed to have seen Tia walking past on Friday and as forming basis for assertions by SH (and other family members) that he, SH, was not the last person to see Tia alive

Always the chance we're wrong, of course

Yes it seems more likely to be this than 'assisting' by hiding/ moving a body, to me. Wouldn't that be aiding and abetting or something far more serious than assisting? Although, assisting seems serious enough, if it delayed or changed the outcome of this case in any way, with SH (for a while, at least) not being the last person to see Tia.

 

[user484]

washing Powder - I think I've stated previously that I think this could have been used as a drying agent to absorb and minimise the smell of decomposition.

Another poster also made the incisive observation that as SH had been doing laundry, and that he was possible unfamiliar with the quantity to use, so had possibly completely used up the powder.

 

[Clio]

Well we've all presumed him to be (one of the independant witnesses) who claimed to have seen Tia walking past on Friday and as forming basis for assertions by SH (and other family members) that he, SH, was not the last person to see Tia alive

Always the chance we're wrong, of course

Not all of us presumed it to be him. Sorry but I don't know how to link to a previous post (#198)

No it isn't two, it's one. My point is that all we know is that a 39 year old man was arrested and then bailed on suspicion of assisting an offender.

It is the press who have named him and said he was the one who saw TS leaving the house.

What if that's wrong? What if the female witness is the person who was the single uncorroborated witness.

The 39 year old man must then have been arrested for some other reason.