GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #3

[wfgodot]

The body was next door! In the lofty, a cupboard etc.

Perhaps.

 

[laserdisc10]

The 3rd would be more like a misleading statement - which was what Martin Brunt the Sky reporter said on Twitter.

Well despite his failings, Martin Brunt's far more likely to have access to those in the legal profession than I am, as far as interpretation is concerned

Personally, if someone down the road supplied false information which could be construed to impede investigation of a crime, and if that person did so in order to assist an offender, I'd describe it in slightly stronger terms than 'misleading statement'. I'd personally regard them as an accessory, but that's just me

But then to be taken into account is what on the surface appears to me at least to have been a less than competent investigation. If the first search had revealed the body and if I were the police, I'd be prepared to waive as simple mistakes the claims by those who'd said they'd seen the victim walking past the day it was alleged she'd gone missing

Granted, witnesses who claimed they'd seen the victim may have genuinely been mistaken. So, mistakes on the part of police and witnesses

For me, it comes down to intent on the part of the witness/es

But of course we don't know why PM was arrested

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Niles said: "The last time I saw her was on Thursday morning before going to work [at the family home in Mitcham]. She had a friend stay over. She was good as gold.

Considering Tia slept on the sofa in the sitting room ,with her possessions in carrier bags it seems strange that she would have a friend staying the night.

Did something else happen in Tia's home that morning ?
There has never been any comment from Tia's mother about the last time she saw Tia which I find slightly strange.

Two good questions... Was it difficult to have over night guests in the small house?
(I am not being judgmental... DH and I have a small house and over night guests do not stay here often.)

When WAS the last time Tia's mom saw Tia?

 

[India99]

Two good questions... Was it difficult to have over night guests in the small house?
(I am not being judgmental... DH and I have a small house and over night guests do not stay here often.)

When WAS the last time Tia's mom saw Tia?

Thursday morning i believe

and who is DH ? lol

 

[laserdisc10]

Two good questions... Was it difficult to have over night guests in the small house?
(I am not being judgmental... DH and I have a small house and over night guests do not stay here often.)

When WAS the last time Tia's mom saw Tia?

Doubt we'll learn that for several months, although it's a question I'd be asking and would continue to ask, if I were (for instance) a biological father of a now deceased child

 

[user484]

that theory would only work if there was access to both lofts from both houses and at the moment we don't know if there was.

I didn't think there was a door but i'm sure the media (The sun online?) asserted that there was a door.

 

[India99]

I didn't think there was a door but i'm sure the media (The sun online?) asserted that there was a door.

i think they were just guessing to be honest.

i cant see the Police letting them in the loft to have a look can you ?

and i doubt the bloke next door who was carted off talked to them either

 

[badhorsie]

Talking of dodgy places to live, before we left LDN, we lived in W9, between the Mozart and South Kilburn estates. Interesting at the very least. I could write a book about the baby clinic

 

[user484]

i think they were just guessing to be honest.

i cant see the Police letting them in the loft to have a look can you ?

and i doubt the bloke next door who was carted off talked to them either

It could be a general feature of those builds. I thought a door between lofts was unusual (and that access between lofts would more likely be owing to an absent fire/party wall, or a damaged one) but I believe another poster said they did know of lofts connected by doorways.

 

[India99]

It could be a general feature of those builds. I thought a door between lofts was unusual (and that access between lofts would more likely be owing to an absent fire/party wall, or a damaged one) but I believe another poster said they did know of lofts connected by doorways.

and as i've posted quite a few times..........

i used to live in one on that estate and they DO NOT have a door between properties.

 

[deniseyolande]

Thursday morning i believe

and who is DH ? lol

I thought in an early post it was determined that there was no statement as to whether NS saw Tia or not only NS's boyfriend said he saw her that morning.

 

[laserdisc10]

It could be a general feature of those builds. I thought a door between lofts was unusual (and that access between lofts would more likely be owing to an absent fire/party wall, or a damaged one) but I believe another poster said they did know of lofts connected by doorways.

It's always a possibility that certain tenants might consider it advantageous to tap out part of a party-wall in the roof space. Doubt they'd undo their handiwork upon departing. So always a possibility subsequent tenants could live beneath an insecure loft-space and be none the wiser or, they might discover a gap (door or removed bricks/blocks) in the fire-wall and use it to their advantage, with or without the knowledge of their immediate neighbour/s

 

[India99]

I thought in an early post it was determined that there was no statement as to whether NS saw Tia or not only NS's boyfriend said he saw her that morning.

i would have assumed that if NS's saw her then boyfriend had seen her then with two other small kids in the house surely NS would have been there too as i don't think she works.

 

[user484]

It's always a possibility that certain tenants might consider it advantageous to tap out part of a party-wall in the roof space. Doubt they'd undo their handiwork upon departing. So always a possibility subsequent tenants could live beneath an insecure loft-space and be none the wiser or, they might discover a gap (door or removed bricks/blocks) in the fire-wall and use it to their advantage, with or without the knowledge of their immediate neighbour/s

Handy indeed, particularly when the DSS is on the prowl (a la 'Shameless' style).

 

[laserdisc10]

Couple of things I'm finding it difficult to reconcile

(1) concerns the Croydon news article quoted a few pages back in which from memory the fun-fair people are quoted as saying that although they did not see SH or CS on Friday night, they were approached that same night by people who had missing-posters of Tia

(2) is where I think I remember reading that police had remarked that had the search of CS's house been more thorough, they may have found the child alive and/or police fear she may have been alive during their first cursory search

Don't know when the fun-fair closed on the Friday night Tia went missing, but if it's true that people already had missing-posters in hand, they must have been very swift off the mark. Didn't SH claim he and CS searched the fun-fair for approx. one hour, commencing approx. 7 to 7.30 p.m? Then they followed the bus? Then they went to NS's place after which she summoned the police? So what time would they decide they should start running up missing posters, after which they reportedly took them to the fun-fair rather than searching for Tia or waiting a while in case she'd simply met up with friends and lost track of time?

And wondering what would prompt police to say the child might have been discovered alive if the preliminary searches had been more thorough? We've been told the body was in such an advanced stage of decomposition that identification could only be ascertained via dental records

 

[Tontotonto]

Does DS live at the same house as SH and CS?

 

[India99]

Couple of things I'm finding it difficult to reconcile

(1) concerns the Croydon news article quoted a few pages back in which from memory the fun-fair people are quoted as saying that although they did not see SH or CS on Friday night, they were approached that same night by people who had missing-posters of Tia

(2) is where I think I remember reading that police had remarked that had the search of CS's house been more thorough, they may have found the child alive and/or police fear she may have been alive during their first cursory search

Don't know when the fun-fair closed on the Friday night Tia went missing, but if it's true that people already had missing-posters in hand, they must have been very swift off the mark. Didn't SH claim he and CS searched the fun-fair for approx. one hour, commencing approx. 7 to 7.30 p.m? Then they followed the bus? Then they went to NS's place after which she summoned the police? So what time would they decide they should start running up missing posters, after which they reportedly took them to the fun-fair rather than searching for Tia or waiting a while in case she'd simply met up with friends and lost track of time?

And wondering what would prompt police to say the child might have been discovered alive if the preliminary searches had been more thorough? We've been told the body was in such an advanced stage of decomposition that identification could only be ascertained via dental records

have you got a link to where they said it was the same night ?

not being an arse about it, just curious to read it that's all lol

 

[soozieqtips]

Another odd thing I found was that practically throughout the whole search, the police kept saying they expected to find Tia 'alive and well'. Is that because they thought it was a Shannon Matthews case? As I said before, it's very unusual for the police to be so confident and optimistic when a child has been missing for days. Normally they'll say 'fears are growing' or something like that. But I noted that they always seemed hopeful that Tia was still alive and well somewhere.

Couldn't have got that more wrong, unless of course she was still alive on the Sunday (when they admitted they should have found her). Maybe they had reason to suspect someone was hiding her for a Shannon Matthews 'ransom', and that she'd be found safe and sound.

If they thought someone might have hidden her, it makes even more of a mockery of the house searches.

 

[laserdisc10]

have you got a link to where they said it was the same night ?

not being an arse about it, just curious to read it that's all lol

I'll skip back and have a look. Within the last two or three pages

Will post it when I find it

 

[Amber34]

Couple of things I'm finding it difficult to reconcile

(1) concerns the Croydon news article quoted a few pages back in which from memory the fun-fair people are quoted as saying that although they did not see SH or CS on Friday night, they were approached that same night by people who had missing-posters of Tia

That really got me thinking but I found the quote and it is:

Mrs Davis, who said there was only one way into the fair, added: "They would have come to the front window and asked to go in and look for her.

"They would have had to do that to get in for free.

"I don't recall anyone doing that. Neither does my daughter or my best friend.

"We recall people coming and giving out leaflets the following day but we don't recall anyone coming and asking if they could look for a girl that evening. It would have stuck in our minds.

"No family members came in and asked about looking for Tia."

When asked whether anyone had asked to enter the fair to look for a missing girl, McKenzie, 17, said: "No. The only thing we had was on very late on Friday night, two women, between 25 and 30, came up and gave us some of the pictures and told us she had gone missing. Then they went.

"They came back on Saturday, about 1pm, and gave us more. That's all I recall in terms of anyone coming and mentioning Tia."

Mrs Davis added: "That's why we would have remembered. Everyone was talking about it the next day. If they had been there on Friday night, someone would have said."

Stephen Petley, of security firm Loc19, was one of two guards on duty that evening, and the only male.

The Advertiser showed Mr Petley a picture of Stuart Hazell, but he did not recognise him.

"I've talked to everyone who worked that night and none of them were asked about a missing 12-year-old," said Mr Petley.

"There was an incident during the day. A couple had lost a small child but that was resolved. It had nothing to do with this.

"To the best of my knowledge, no one asked about a missing child that evening."

They were very quick off the mark with their posters then!