GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #3

[SallyLu]

Amber. Regarding the flyers at the fairground. That story must have floated from the get go or else you'd start your distribution closer to home wouldn't you think?

I wonder if he was making it appear that Tia had run away rather that gone missing. Mmmmmmm



Please feel free to correct anything I say wrong. I've got broad shoulders!

 

[graceholl]

these are 16 yr olds i'm talking about , not 8 yr olds

Nonetheless..?

 

[Dion]

regarding the Social Service report on alleged domestic violence in Tia's home. Is it possible that during the time that NS was missing from the scene, leaving the talking to her b/f that maybe she was recovering from another incidence of dv, and didn't want to be seen in public. I don't know why I'm even thinking that he would hit her during a time when her daughter was missing, but maybe if she was unwilling to go along with the "plot" ...

 

[India99]

Nonetheless..?

nonetheless what ?

they are 16, they aren't small children who might be affected in the same way as an 8yr old.

are you saying that we should keep all the info away from 16 yr olds who have access to the internet via phones and PC's/Laptops and can read it all themselves anyway ?

 

[Amber34]

Amber. Regarding the flyers at the fairground. That story must have floated from the get go or else you'd start your distribution closer to home wouldn't you think?

I wonder if he was making it appear that Tia had run away rather that gone missing. Mmmmmmm



Please feel free to correct anything I say wrong. I've got broad shoulders!

It bothers me. We have to assume the old bill went to the funfair at some point to verify his alibi (or did they just take CS at her word as his alibi?) but if they worked out his timeline they should have known something was wrong.

Based on SH's statement, this could be what his timeline looks like for that evening:

6pm - Tia not home - how long would they wait? Maybe an hour?

7pm - set off for the fair. According to SH they spent an hour there

8:10pm - return home to check if Tia was back (10 min drive from fair)

8:20 set off from home to NS's house (20 min drive) Arrive @Natalie's 8:40pm You'd assume they stayed for more than 10 mins - maybe left at 9pm? Drove back and other 20 min (that's a minimum)

9:20pm - arrive home, alert neighbours, find photo, supervise making of flyer, unknown women get to the funfair and hand out flyers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We had a travelling fair in our village last week. Everything had to be turned off at 10pm sharp. There weren't many hanging around after that

IMO, this is just more evidence of his lies (and CS being complicit), though why the old bill didn't think this from the start, I don't know :banghead:

 

[Amber34]

Re CS/CB, it's not uncommon for people to cover for someone out of misguided belief that they are telling the truth. The more I read the more I think she wasn't involved but did cover up out of fear that the police/social services would "set up" SH. It's amazing how many people go into complete denial even when faced with the obvious...

OK, I take your point, but this means they would have had to actually go to the fair, but there was no sighting of them there. If he asked CS to say that they had been to the fair then surely she would want to know why. I get the impression Gramma is no shrinking violet and does what she wants, not what she is told.


Re PM for him to be charged with what he has the police must suspect he knew that SH had committed an offense. The theory that he contacted or tried to contact SH after the body was discover seems the most plausible to me. If he was stupid enough to leave him a message or even a missed call regardless if the phone was turned off it would explain why the police where quick to arrest when they did. If it was re the false sighting the charge would have been obstructing an enquiry or perverting the cause of justice IMO

Could have not have just been that he told a barefaced lie that perpetuated the belief that Tia had left the home, and therefore to hindered the search? Telling the offender's version of events when interviewed could be seen as assisting them? JMO

Re SH, just read back on the articles and picked up that not only did his Dad say he told him he walked TS to the tram so did his sister. He blamed his Dad's misinterpretation on alcohol but didn't mention why his Sister said this also. This with the fair mix up leads to a very dubious story which the police must have picked up on. I can only assume they thought TS was alive and left him free in the hope he would lead them somewhere in the early stages.

I wondered about this - I had the feeling that SH's dad had told the sister, rather than SH telling her directly? Not sure why I think that - it may have been implied in an article but it could be the very devil to find!

Any thoughts on these theories?

I would hope the police have interviewed the two who started giving out the posters at the fair on the Friday night. They could hold the key to further disproving him as a liar.

 

[Amber34]

regarding the Social Service report on alleged domestic violence in Tia's home. Is it possible that during the time that NS was missing from the scene, leaving the talking to her b/f that maybe she was recovering from another incidence of dv, and didn't want to be seen in public. I don't know why I'm even thinking that he would hit her during a time when her daughter was missing, but maybe if she was unwilling to go along with the "plot" ...

It's possible, but we did see NS early on in the disappearance and also shortly after the body was found. I do find it strange she went away though. If that was me I would be combing those woods and watching CCTV myself. Unless of course, I thought there was no reason to look elsewhere......

 

[soozieqtips]

Another thing. By the sounds of it Tia was back and forth like a yo-yo. Stayed regularly at Gran's house at weekends, also stayed regularly with the step-grandmother at weekends, and in between, was at home with her mum and the b/friend.

I cannot believe that SH and CS would be overly worried if Tia hadn't been home by 7. Do they come across as the type of family who'd be that concerned after just an hour? I bet there were loads of times Tia was home late, and no one reported her missing after only an hour.

And since Gran quite happily left her precious granddaughter alone all night with a convicted drug addict and drinker (maybe every time she did a night shift) it's pretty clear that she didn't feel any responsibility towards Tia or towards her safety. And yet we're expected to believe that after just one hour she and SH were both worried about Tia like a couple of loving parents???

Gran was pretty tight-lipped whenever we saw her, and she didn't look too heartbroken to me, but she did look stressed - which would be natural if she knew Tia was in the loft. I've gone from not being sure she was involved to being 99% sure she knew exactly what happened, and knew from the moment she got home on Friday.

The hours they had together before reporting Tia missing were long enough to clean up (if there'd been no blood), come up with a time to 'get worried', and concoct a story about the day's events. Where it started to go wrong was when Hazell gave different versions of the story. He's far too brain fried in my opinion to have been able to carry out the murder, concealment, clean-up on his own, and then casually sit there and be interviewed while Tia was lying dead above him. I'm sure he'd have cracked if he hadn't had Gran's full support, along with who knows who else's.

 

[Jaccles]

I would hope the police have interviewed the two who started giving out the posters at the fair on the Friday night. They could hold the key to further disproving him as a liar.

I haven't read anyone handed out posters just that they showed a picture which would be more readily available, I remember a kid on my street going missing and we went out late that night with photographs form parents, neighbours tend to want to help, and if the fair had been mentioned they may have gone there just on the off chance.

Re PM's sister theres a few articles online but one from the telegraph states "Mrs Parratt had described how her brother had told her he walked Tia to the Tram station last Friday before she disappeared. But he later clarified his story, telling ITV News he had been doing housework when she left the house to go shopping alone."

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

excellent post btw Adorabella back in page 42

I think the strongest piece of evidence the Police have is not just the body of poor Tia, but the bedsheet.

There are a few possible scenarios pretty much all have been discussed but clearly the most likely is SH did it with or without some assistance from CS (which i hate to think she is involved but may have given an alibi worried SH had nothing to do with and would get framed without)
or PM or somone else maybe framing someone (which I doubt)

so the body was wrapped in a bedsheet and black bags
If the sheet was the black one as discussed in media then for me it is unthinkable it could be anyone but SH for simple reason how could someone else get in house and place body in a sheet from their house without SH or CS noticing it was gone. this obviously implicates CS too

what woman doesn't know which sheets are on the respective beds on their homes?
particularly one as memorable as a black sheet
very rare imo for a single BLACK sheet to be on a childs bed, or even a black sheet at all. i can imagine a black sheet on a double bed for an adult if that's your thing

I bet if you asked 100 random children the colour of their bedsheet (if they could remember) it would be blue, cream, yellow or white. something plain or pastel

if SH had changed sheets from his and CS bed or Tia's wouldn't CS think this strange? or once a police enquiry under way IN their home not stop to ask where the missing sheet was. wouldn't this have figured in questioning early on in their house when asked if anything had changed since Tia went missing?

so IF that sheet is from their house then for me that alone is a HUGE piece of evidence

I hope Tia's body can be released soon so she can have a dignified funeral and be laid to rest

All very good points...

But the question has crossed my mind if the black sheet was not used on beds... But rather kept (maybe in the loft) as a backdrop or scenario for Halloween decorations? (or some other use other than bed coverings?

Just a thought.

 

[graceholl]

nonetheless what ?

they are 16, they aren't small children who might be affected in the same way as an 8yr old.

are you saying that we should keep all the info away from 16 yr olds who have access to the internet via phones and PC's/Laptops and can read it all themselves anyway ?

Only what we can read.

I'm just saying, as a parent would you want to expose your kids (6 or 16) to the rumour mill, especially if it included some of the things that are supposedly flying about? In fact would you really want to discuss it with anyone?

I'm not denying the fact that the local community is stumped as to what happened. It's a bizarre case and only the police will have a clue as to what's really been going on (even that is debatable). But the rumour mill involves some pretty sickening things that I think as an adult you wouldn't start talking about with your kids.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I wouldn't expect pretty pink princess sheets with wands and crowns on Tia's bed. She was a tween after all. My daughter's room is purple, pink and black. She has two walls painted black with chalkboard paint in fact - all her furniture is black - and even the cover on her futon sofa is black. (It's a double sized fitted sheet.) She's 12 and she chose the colours.

Next room redecoration she's asked me to do black with turquoise instead but she still wants the black. Her choice - Mama just gets to buy the stuff and do the work.

Cute story... Sounds familiar:smile:

Personally it is not the color of the sheet that stands out to me..

It is the fact that it was no longer on the bed, if it WAS used as a bed cover, and therefore would be noticed missing by CS.

JMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Thursday morning i believe

and who is DH ? lol

DH on some Websleuth threads means Dear Husband

DD means Dear Daughter

and so on...

Keeps significant others and loved ones incognito, so to speak....:smile:

 

[Inge Jones]

I'm just saying, as a parent would you want to expose your kids (6 or 16) to the rumour mill, especially if it included some of the things that are supposedly flying about? In fact would you really want to discuss it with anyone?

As a parent of two (now adult and independent) children I would want to discuss anything with them where I thought it might give me the opportunity to guide them as to suitable attitudes to have towards what goes on in the real world. 8 would be too young - they would just get scared and wouldn't understand anything except there was danger down any street. Teens onwards would be a suitable age, IMHO. Remember that in the UK, 16 is the age of consent for medical and marriage, with 18 being age of full majority enfranchisement. An understanding of real issues really ought to be well underway before someone gets the vote or gets to choose a marriage partner.

 

[Jackalyn]

Could someone with local knowledge say what the area around the fair is like? I'm still convinced they must have travelled that way for a reason and used the fair as an excuse in case caught on CCTV travelling to and from that area with an hours gap when TS was supposedly missing. They must have needed to go somewhere pretty urgently, dealer to help cope with the stress? God if the JY case was Pizzagate then this must be Fairgate!

Well, IF it was Ashburton. It is a park with a path with railings up one side leading to a playground and a library. Where the fair would be is bordered by a main road (Lower Addiscombe Road,) another road which leads to Norwood (Spring Road,) and at the third side would be Woodside and the fourth to side roads from which you could get to Woodside school (I used to go there.) Those two sides have houses. On the Lower Addiscombe side there is also a road at right angles leading up to Shirley. The fair would be on the Lower Addiscombe Road side which is a fairly big piece of grass and below the fair on the side of the road leading to Norwood there is a pond. (Used to sail boats there.) In actual fact no fair would be huge due to the size of the park. Because of the library and playground it could only stretch so far. There are also some tennis courts where I used to play. You COULD go round the perimiter fence to search a fair as the fence is round 2 sides of the park (where the main roads are,) but you could not go round the outside of the park and search on four sides as you would have to go inside the park to get to the Woodside sides. (One side being the path side -so you could see in from that.) To search the fourth side effectively you would probably need to enter via the path by the library and could maybe see it without entering. The pictures I can find of the park are a bit misleading. In park terms it is not huge. On the Lower Addiscombe Road side are houses and shops. There is also a shop selling ice creams (or used to be when I was young in the middle of the park and if it still exists,) you would surely also ask there if you thought a youngster went to the park and maybe (though Tia was a bit old for it, in the playground.) The library is dead centre in the park but now disused. The fair would have to be on the Lower Addiscombe Road side, and Spring Road side.

http://wiki.worldflicks.org/ashburton_park.html

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...8wULCFJpSN0wXOtoHgDA&ved=0CFsQ9QEwAw&dur=5852

http://www.croydon.gov.uk/leisure/parksandopenspaces/parksatoz/ashburtonpark/

http://london.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Locale_Addiscombe

 

[Jackalyn]

If the police are called to a DV incident and children are present then Social Services are automatically informed.

 

[Jackalyn]

What we have never heard is how SH and CS got to the fair. Did they have a car? If not then there would be CCTV of them as actually it is a fair way from New Addington and there is no way they would have walked. It would take them a reasonable amount of time to get to the fair and while they were there who would be at home 'waiting' for Tia?

The other thing bothering me is that if you had a body hidden in a house would you want the police searching it?

 

[Inge Jones]

CS had a car afaik.

 

[user484]

Tia’s body was left above my old room

A MAN who lodged with Tia Sharp’s gran has told of his horror after the 12-year-old’s body was found above his old room.

David Gawman, 41, moved out two years ago but went back to help ex-landlady Christine Sharp look for the missing girl.

No other details given.

 

[Inge Jones]

Tia’s body was left above my old roomNo other details given.

Well of course if we really wanted to play the rumor game :wicked grin: we could suggest he might have killed her and put her up there 2 years ago, and ever since then the entire Sharp family have been helping him to cover up by carrying on as if Tia was still alive. Finally SH couldn't carry on any more and reported her "missing".