GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #3

[Crazy Mama]

Poor David Gawman, his life is so boring, he has to add himself to things.....perhaps he can shed some light on the black sheet.

I assume that the LE know about him and have questioned him regarding the state of affairs within this home.

Landlady>CS>SOBBING>OMG

 

[Clio]

If they arrested PM, why didn’t they arrest JH for providing a false alibi for SH by claiming she saw Tia leave the house by herself, thereby putting herself in the position of being the last person to see her?
Here is her statement:



If SH had his mobile phone with him, the day he went "missing" then it could be possible that PM called to warn him about the body being found.

But the police could have called SH themselves and arranged to meet him (or possibly had his phone pinged to determine his location) whereas they didn’t seem to know where he was, so maybe he didn’t have his phone with him, or didn’t answer to numbers he didn’t know.

BBM Quite! I have said the same thing a number of times. All we we know is that sometime late on Friday 10th, after the body was found, a 39 year old man was arrested on suspicion of assisting an offender then released on bail.

It is the press who have named him and it is the press who have stated he is supected of giving a false statement to the police. IF that is true and IF that false statement was a sighting of TS on Friday, then why wasn't JH also arrested and bailed as you say.

The only explanation I have come up with relates to the description of what TS was wearing. Initially, she was reported as wearing a white top and leopard print leggings. (Probably as a result of the JH sighting but we don't know that for sure).

Later this was changed to a yellow top and grey trousers, i.e the clothes she was alledgedly wearing on Friday 10th were exactly the same as she was wearing on Thursday 9th with the exception of trainers rather than boots. I suspect this correction came because that's what SH said in police interviews.

If the 39 year old man also described her as wearing a yellow top and grey trousers when he says he saw her on Friday (if indeed that's why he was arrested) then I can possibly understand why he was arrested but JH wasn't. Because he might have colluded with SH over the description of the clothes.

The other thing I thought was quite telling was the statement from AN, DN's mother where she said:-

Angie Niles, 69, whose son David Niles is Tia’s stepfather, said: ‘We’re worried sick, and I just don’t understand, why all these discrepancies?

‘It’s all changing, where she was, who spoke to her, and even what she was wearing. Everyone just needs to be open now.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tectives-potential-witness.html#ixzz23yxEFOTl

IMHO I think AN for one had her suspicions from the start.

 

[Topadvocater]

Just thought it worth mentioning that the lodger (who at least I don't suspect!) was in the house waiting for Tia and apparently smelled nothing. He also mentioned how cs "sobbed her heart out" putting her in a somewhat different light than the cold-hearted image seen on TV.

The other thing is that the police made a point of stating that both full searches were conducted with the owners' consent. It is true that if they hadn't consented the full light of suspicion would have fallen on the occupiers, but how did they think they would get away with it in such a tiny house (with no real hiding places as so many posters have said). Any attempt to conceal the body would have been better than none, and in a worst case scenario SH at least should have fled the scene much earlier.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4494619/Tia-Sharps-body-was-left-above-my-old-room.html

 

[Clio]

What we have never heard is how SH and CS got to the fair. Did they have a car? If not then there would be CCTV of them as actually it is a fair way from New Addington and there is no way they would have walked. It would take them a reasonable amount of time to get to the fair and while they were there who would be at home 'waiting' for Tia?

The other thing bothering me is that if you had a body hidden in a house would you want the police searching it?

I believe that CS had a car but not SH. If that is true, then the only thing that makes sense to me is that, however TS died, it was SH alone or SH and A. N Other who put her in the loft before CS came home on Friday at 14:30 and CS did not know about it. At least, she didn't know at that point.

If CS had been there when TS died, or if SH had told her what had happened, then CS must be complicit in the attempted cover up so why not move the body from the house before reporting her missing? It had to be obvious their house would be searched as that was where TS had "gone missing" from.

From what I have read about the area, it seems all sorts of dubious stuff goes on. If both of them were involved, it might be possible to move a body to the car without looking suspicious. It's likely that TS had been in CS's car before so worries about DNA being found might not have been that high.

So I think it's more likely that her body was put in the loft, CS came home, it escalated from there and TS got reported missing later that evening. From then on, SH had no opportunity to move the body IMHO

 

[Crazy Mama]

My top 2 suspects are DS and SH
They appear to be together.
Both have access to the house.
Both are trusted 'family' members.
Now that SH has been arrested, DS has gone ever so quiet. He was quick to announce that SH was not guilty, even going as far as posting it on fb. He has never spoken out (not that I have read about anyway) in defense of CS .... he is happy with the status quo. SH will take the fall.

 

[Clio]

Just thought it worth mentioning that the lodger (who at least I don't suspect!) was in the house waiting for Tia and apparently smelled nothing. He also mentioned how cs "sobbed her heart out" putting her in a somewhat different light than the cold-hearted image seen on TV.

The other thing is that the police made a point of stating that both full searches were conducted with the owners' consent. It is true that if they hadn't consented the full light of suspicion would have fallen on the occupiers, but how did they think they would get away with it in such a tiny house (with no real hiding places as so many posters have said). Any attempt to conceal the body would have been better than none, and in a worst case scenario SH at least should have fled the scene much earlier.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4494619/Tia-Sharps-body-was-left-above-my-old-room.html

And by owner, they presumbaly mean CS. Which is another reason I think CS probably didn't know there was a body in the loft. At least not initially.

On the issue of nobody smelling anything, FWIW I did read a comment elsewhere from an undertaker. He said that he had once had to store a body unrefridgerated for two weeks. It was in the summer. He said it really didn't smell that bad and it wasn't hard to mask the smell even when the relatives came to visit just before the funeral. Just saying.

 

[Skigh]

Another thing. By the sounds of it Tia was back and forth like a yo-yo. Stayed regularly at Gran's house at weekends, also stayed regularly with the step-grandmother at weekends, and in between, was at home with her mum and the b/friend.

I cannot believe that SH and CS would be overly worried if Tia hadn't been home by 7. Do they come across as the type of family who'd be that concerned after just an hour? I bet there were loads of times Tia was home late, and no one reported her missing after only an hour. And since Gran quite happily left her precious granddaughter alone all night with a convicted drug addict and drinker (maybe every time she did a night shift) it's pretty clear that she didn't feel any responsibility towards Tia or towards her safety. And yet we're expected to believe that after just one hour she and SH were both worried about Tia like a couple of loving parents???

Gran was pretty tight-lipped whenever we saw her, and she didn't look too heartbroken to me, but she did look stressed - which would be natural if she knew Tia was in the loft. I've gone from not being sure she was involved to being 99% sure she knew exactly what happened, and knew from the moment she got home on Friday.

The hours they had together before reporting Tia missing were long enough to clean up (if there'd been no blood), come up with a time to 'get worried', and concoct a story about the day's events. Where it started to go wrong was when Hazell gave different versions of the story. He's far too brain fried in my opinion to have been able to carry out the murder, concealment, clean-up on his own, and then casually sit there and be interviewed while Tia was lying dead above him. I'm sure he'd have cracked if he hadn't had Gran's full support, along with who knows who else's.

I agree.
Given what we know about Tia's family background I think Tia was probably used to being out and about on her own or with friends without anyone too closely worring about her where abouts.

The more likely reasons for her being late would be for her to meet up with a friend(It was reported she played with the local children on the estate and would have known some of them from when the family lived with Granny)

So the most obvious thing to do would be to walk around and check with neighbour's children to see if they had seen her.

Another possibility is she could have returned home for some reason.So why not contact NS or DN at 6pm to see if she was there.

Does any one know what time the shopping centre in Croydon closes?
It would have seemed a better idea to go there and look and check whether anyone had seen her.


Another thing which is puzzling me is why did SH go to meet her at the tram stop on Thursday.It seems as if Tia was very used to doing the journey from home or school to Granny's house.


I have a feeling something happened at Tia's home on Thursday morning which made her decide to go to Granny's.

I also think there is something odd about the mobiles-Tia's being dead and taking her mothers . Did NS give permission for Tia to borrow hers.
If Tia did keep her possessions in bags in the sitting room I do not think she would have left something precious to her at home even if it was not working.

IF there had been domestic violence in the house it is possible for Tia also to have been hit at times

Did NS give permission for Tia to borrow hers.

 

[Clio]

Does DS live at the same house as SH and CS?

Hi and :welcome5:

I don't believe he lives with CS/SH any more. I think he lives elsewhere in New Addington.

 

[Crazy Mama]

IF NS and SH were still having occasional flings or exchanges for stashes, then perhaps he had sent a raunchy sms to NS and TS saw it since she was using the phone...I think someone else suggested something similar...anyhooooo...my brain is fried and I feel like I am waffling, a bit like SH....going on and on. The simple matter here is that the LE have so much more info than us, especially after missing her body, they will be working overtime now to ensure they get it right. I think we will all be gasping when we hear what comes out in the trial.

 

[deniseyolande]

And by owner, they presumbaly mean CS. Which is another reason I think CS probably didn't know there was a body in the loft. At least not initially.

On the issue of nobody smelling anything, FWIW I did read a comment elsewhere from an undertaker. He said that he had once had to store a body unrefridgerated for two weeks. It was in the summer. He said it really didn't smell that bad and it wasn't hard to mask the smell even when the relatives came to visit just before the funeral. Just saying.

..maybe he drained the body of all fluids 1st, I think they do that...TS would have had all fluids in her, hence I would imagine a horrible odour of decomposition....could this be the reason the undertakers body didn't smell so bad after 2 weeks?

 

[Skigh]

My top 2 suspects are DS and SH
They appear to be together.
Both have access to the house.
Both are trusted 'family' members.
Now that SH has been arrested, DS has gone ever so quiet. He was quick to announce that SH was not guilty, even going as far as posting it on fb. He has never spoken out (not that I have read about anyway) in defense of CS .... he is happy with the status quo. SH will take the fall.

I too feel DS knew what happened,I also feel that NS and DN also knew .

 

[Clio]

..maybe he drained the body of all fluids 1st, I think they do that...TS would have had all fluids in her, hence I would imagine a horrible odour of decomposition....could this be the reason the undertakers body didn't smell so bad after 2 weeks?

Possibly. Was just reporting what I had read.

 

[Clio]

I too feel DS knew what happened,I also feel that NS and DN also knew .

Knew or suspected? I find it so hard to believe that the entire familiy could sit in that house for a whole week knowing that TS was lying dead in the loft.

 

[Skigh]

..maybe he drained the body of all fluids 1st, I think they do that...TS would have had all fluids in her, hence I would imagine a horrible odour of decomposition....could this be the reason the undertakers body didn't smell so bad after 2 weeks?

There is a huge difference between professionally storing a body and keeping a body in a hot loft.

 

[Clio]

my brain is fried and I feel like I am waffling, a bit like SH....going on and on. The simple matter here is that the LE have so much more info than us, especially after missing her body, they will be working overtime now to ensure they get it right. I think we will all be gasping when we hear what comes out in the trial.

I feel a bit the same! I think you're right though, If it goes to trial I think there may well be some shocking revelations.

 

[Skigh]

Knew or suspected? I find it so hard to believe that the entire familiy could sit in that house for a whole week knowing that TS was lying dead in the loft.

I am more and more leaning towards the theory the body was moved between lofts and that to do that I think more than one person was needed.

I think it is possibly that once the loft in the home was searched once, it was thought it would not be done again.

 

[Skigh]

I feel a bit the same! I think you're right though, If it goes to trial I think there may well be some shocking revelations.

My brain is also frazzled.

The reporter from the Croydon advertiser hinted in his tweet from court that there was more to come from this story.

I personally read that to mean from the crime itself and those involved rather than family backgrounds.

 

[Clio]

I am more and more leaning towards the theory the body was moved between lofts and that to do that I think more than one person was needed.

I think it is possibly that once the loft in the home was searched once, it was thought it would not be done again.

I don't know. I don't really subscribe to the "door" in the attic theory. We have a poster on here who lived in one of those houses and says there is no access between neighbouring lofts.

I suppose it's possible that previous tennants might have knocked a hole through for some dubious purposes. But why on earth would you do that?

It's also possible that a hole was made for the purposes of moving the body but I am finding that hard to believe aswell.

Could the body have been moved between houses in and out of front doors? With family and neighbours and police all around. Unlikely. So it would have to have been moved out of the house before it became widely known she was "missing".

If you were a neighbour and someone asked you to hide a body would you say yes? I wouldn't.

If more that one person was involved in moving the body, why on earth didn't they move it away from the house altogether?

 

[Luna15]

Amber. Regarding the flyers at the fairground. That story must have floated from the get go or else you'd start your distribution closer to home wouldn't you think?

I wonder if he was making it appear that Tia had run away rather that gone missing. Mmmmmmm



Please feel free to correct anything I say wrong. I've got broad shoulders!

I am starting to wonder if SH just wanted Tia placed at the fair, in an effort to try and imply that she might have been lured away from there..... it has been known in the past (God Bless his Heart) Mark Tildesley... anywhere where kids hang out is a known haunt for paedo's, it might be something as simple as SH wanting to plant a seed that, that's what must have happened to Tia... and no way, from what we have heard about Tia's homelife would they be worried after just a few hours.... I'm sure I read that Tia's birthfather was contacted at 1am.... I would have thought that might have been one of the first calls they made.... especially given the circumstances of the dysfunctional way that Tia was living.

My top 2 suspects are DS and SH
They appear to be together.
Both have access to the house.
Both are trusted 'family' members.
Now that SH has been arrested, DS has gone ever so quiet. He was quick to announce that SH was not guilty, even going as far as posting it on fb. He has never spoken out (not that I have read about anyway) in defense of CS .... he is happy with the status quo. SH will take the fall.

I am also wondering if DS had strong suspicions about SH from the start and was just luring him into a false sense of security.... DS could have told the police of his suspicions and the police used him to help trap SH

I hope this post makes sense.... I am feeling really frazzled today.

 

[kaos]

I'm extremely grateful to Kaos for having the foresight to save the above article. I read it. Thought about it once the body was discovered. In a sleep-lagged overreaction to discovery of the body, I posted here and annoyed a lot of people at the time. Rightly or wrong, my posts criticised the police for not sending a car around to the fair-ground as a priority, to check SH's claims of searching, considering he had a long list of convictions (and now we learn the family was on the radar too)

If police had sent someone, even one officer, to check SH's claims with the fun-fair - and if the fun-fair people had told police what they later told the Croydon newspaper (i.e. denial of SH's story) then police could have taken him down to the station and obtained a statement from him. Simultaneously, they could have taken a statement from the fun-fair staff. At that point, they would have had reason to distrust SH's version of events and justification for conducting a search of CS's house (I think/would hope). Anyway, those were my thoughts when I posted

If police had questioned SH vigorously that Friday night - if they'd confronted him with the fact the fun-fair staff denied he'd searched the fun-fair - if they'd questioned CS just as vigorously they would have learned then, at that early point in the investigation, that CS had not been at her house for 23 hours. And who knows how differently the investigation might have gone if the above had occurred

I don't know why police took SH at his word. Nor do I know why they failed to follow-up on his claimed movements earlier in the evening by checking his claims against the people at the fun-fair. One officer in a car, shouldn't have taken very long to drive to the fun fair. Or even one phone call to check SH's story

Anyway, very grateful to Kaos for having the presence of mind to save the article, because 2 days after it was published, it was pulled and all I could provide to vouch for the article were remnants of Google headers for the article

Good for you, Kaos

I was actually starting to doubt my own sanity about where I got the article from but this link shows it did exist

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...uspect-published-do+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

and this one shows it's been pulled

http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk...oubts-murder/story-16689391-detail/story.html

I never even noticed about the pictures in that story about when they were given out. I know it was a local firm who printed up the leaflets and t-shirts but don't know what day that actually happened.

I take this to mean that the mother's b/f was assaulting the mother. I hope he wasn't doing the same to Tia.

The poor child was being ping ponged between two incredibly dysfunctional "families". She probably had no concept of what a normal life was supposed to be, as she was surrounded by violence and drug addiction.

Maybe this is where Tia's bruising comes from?


Another thing I've remembered from some of the family statements is that it's supposed to have been DN who made the phone call to SC and from this article....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4483154/Cops-say-sorry-as-Tia-gran-held.html#ixzz23uSWm9eH

Paul (Sharp - NS's dad) told how Tia and Danielle were “best of pals”. He said: “They used to love playing cooking games together. Tia had this plastic cooker and was always making pretend tea and cakes and serving them to you.”

He first heard Tia was missing last Saturday when David phoned.

.... doesn't state which David it was - either DS or DN so it does look like both Davids were taking charge regarding informing people about the disappearance.

It's incredibly sad just how many men were actually involved in this girl's life and none of whom could even protect her.