GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #4

[Alyce]

I do agree - but in his interview he did make indications that she was not
perfect -particularly about charging her mobile.

I think that was why it grated with me. Not the use of the word Angel, I have heard older children be referred to in that way sometimes.

It was the fact that in one sentence she was the perfect golden angel but the next minute she was the person who cheated at games, hadnt done the garden but had still kept the all important £10 ,had eaten too many lollies that were meant to be given to Grandma and was bad about the phone charging as said above.

 

[Skigh]

I hpe you do not mind,Adorabella but I have copied this from one of your previous posts.

3. Not sure why but I am not 'feeling' the 'phone as a big clue. From my understanding DN expected to see TS at home on Thursday evening (so the fact that TS stayed over at G'ma's that evening is more of a warning bell to me - although from what we have since discovered it seems she stayed there often).



I too remember this as being in DN's original statements.

He was not quoting some thing SH said as he used the word I.

He thought Tia was going to Croydon shopping and he would see her when he got back from work about 6pm.

In a later statement he said that Tia had had a friend stay the night and when he left for work they were on the couch together.

He also said in one of those statements that just as she was leaving she found her phone was dead so borrowed her mothers.

If she was with a friend when he went to work then I do not think she would be just leaving herself.

 

[wfgodot]

It was the fact that in one sentence she was the perfect golden angel but the next minute she was the person who cheated at games, hadnt done the garden but had still kept the all important £10 ,had eaten too many lollies that were meant to be given to Grandma and was bad about the phone charging as said above.

That seemingly off-the-cuff reference to lollies might especially prove interesting to those who reckon that TS accidentally overdosed when it's remembered that one delivery system for the powerful synthetic narcotic fentanyl is via a sort of lollipop - the product is named Actiq, a Class A drug in the UK.

 

[Cherwell]

IMHO the phrase "perfect golden angel" sounds like what you say when you lose someone and tend to "idealize" them after death.

That's how I took it. The woman whose little boy fell into the sea and was lost in Somerset has spoken in similar terms "he was the most gorgeous boy, perfect in every single way". She didn't use the word 'angel' in that interview, but I daresay she has at other times.

If SH killed her without meaning to, then it's not 'natural causes' - it's manslaughter. And SH has been charged with her murder, not 'on suspicion of murder' like Chris Jefferies and CS were.

I've never suggested it was natural causes, and I would be flabbergasted if it was. laniefi has summed up my thoughts below.
Yes, SH has been charged with murder, but that in itself doesn't prove anything, especially since the cause of death is still unknown. (The others you mention were only arrested, not charged.)

There are only 2 "accident" theories that even seem remotely possible;

1. Someone gave Tia drugs that she OD'd on (no reporting it to the police due to criminal history of drugs)
2. Sexual molestation gone wrong (obvious why you would not call the police)

These IMO are the most likely explanations. There are some possible variations of the drugs scenario as someone else has pointed out.

Re the use of the term "babe" - this is quite a commonly used endearment in my experience, and I wouldn't read anything into it.

 

[Cherwell]

I think, mad though it may sound, if they had the body in the house, at least they knew where it was, and no man and dog could discover it on their early morning walk.
And perhaps they just were not thinking quick enough to plan a burial in the woods...

I think you are correct.
It is not easy to hide a body where it cannot immediately be discovered.
It is not easy to drive anywhere without having numberplate recognition or cctv.
I think they wanted time to plan where to put Tia and to get hold of a car
which could not be traced to them.
Something went wrong with their plan.

Sure. The reason I queried it was because the original poster was suggesting that Tia died at her mother's house and her body was taken from there to the house in New Addington. I wouldn't think they'd risk moving it unless they had a better place planned.

 

[soozieqtips]

I agree with that Soozie. I believe SH would definately have said he phoned, if he/they had phoned. Doesnt make sense not to put that very important point into his Oh So Chatty Interview, because surely it would show him in the best possible light, the concerned person.

My take, just my opinion of course, is that SH and or CB did phone NS/DN but its a phone call they dont want anyone to know about. And the reason they then went over in person was for discussions of how to resolve the situation.

Yes, he was very chatty wasn't he, once he got warmed up. Even feigning parental responsibility, "I gave her money to do odd jobs round the house to 'learn her' some responsibility' I think he said. He may well have been slightly stoned, which could account for the rambling, the discrepancies and the inventions. Golden rule. Never talk about anything important when you're stoned!!!

One reason I don't think they called NS/DN at all, is that they didn't want a record of any phone calls to emerge at a later date, so they had to go there in person and be 'off the record'. With several years worth of experience in dodging the law (SH had 30 convictions, but how many other things did he get away with?) - I'd expect them to know the risks of using phones to relay sensitive information that could likely come back and bite them somewhere down south....

 

[Skigh]

Yes. Whenever I've hear the term 'little angel' - it's with reference to very young children, not 12-year-olds. It might just be the way they speak though. For instance, how many times was Tia referred to as 'babe'? Even her mum wrote 'babe' on the card - "sorry babe this should never have happened'. SH often referred to her as 'babe' during the interview, which made me feel uncomfortable at times, like Tia didn't have an identity, she was just someone's 'babe'.

I find this odd unless it was a much used nickname.

This is a term I associate with a face to face form of address rather than
used on a remeberance card.

 

[nursebeeme]

Peeps: please do not discuss personal messages on the thread... thanks so much

 

[Skigh]

Sure. The reason I queried it was because the original poster was suggesting that Tia died at her mother's house and her body was taken from there to the house in New Addington. I wouldn't think they'd risk moving it unless they had a better place planned.

Or a very good reason for removing it from the flat quickly.I would think there would be very few hiding places in a small flat.
Unless they were somewhere else ,there were 2 little boys living in the Merton house.The 3 year old would be able to speak

 

[soozieqtips]

Yes, SH has been charged with murder, but that in itself doesn't prove anything, especially since the cause of death is still unknown. (The others you mention were only arrested, not charged.)

Didn't I write exactly that in my post? I can't find it right now as the thread has already moved on, but I thought I said that Chris Jefferies and CH had both been arrested on 'suspicion of murder' but not charged, unlike SH. If I wrote something incorrect, let me know and I'll edit it.

 

[soozieqtips]

I find this odd unless it was a much used nickname.

This is a term I associate with a face to face form of address rather than
used on a remeberance card.

Yes yes yes. Her generic nickname was written on a remembrance card by her mother, and that is odd. It smacks of distance. 'Babe' can be anyone.

 

[Cherwell]

Didn't I write exactly that in my post? I can't find it right now as the thread has already moved on, but I thought I said that Chris Jefferies and CH had both been arrested on 'suspicion of murder' but not charged, unlike SH. If I wrote something incorrect, let me know and I'll edit it.

It's in post 490. "SH has been charged with her murder, not 'on suspicion of murder' like Chris Jefferies and CS were."
You just missed out the "arrested", I think.

 

[SallyLu]

I think I just lost the plot along the way.

Do you think TS could have died on Thursday night whilst CS was at work. She came home and didn't figure anything wrong until 6pm came and went?

 

[soozieqtips]

It's in post 490. "SH has been charged with her murder, not 'on suspicion of murder' like Chris Jefferies and CS were."
You just missed out the "arrested", I think.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh. Sorry. I see what you mean now. I left off the 'goes without saying' "arrested"

Thanks

 

[webnut]

Hi, I found the forum yesterday and registered to discuss and read about the Tia Sharp case.

Personally I think the babe thing is being over analysed. Many teenagers call each other babe and generally its a girl thing. I've seen it written countless times on FB. I dont think it makes that much difference that she wrote babe on the remembrance card, its like a conversation with Tia so a natural thing to write.

 

[Cherwell]

Yes yes yes. Her generic nickname was written on a remembrance card by her mother, and that is odd. It smacks of distance. 'Babe' can be anyone.

Now I don't think it implied distance, rather it came across to me as someone pouring out their feelings as if they were talking directly to the person.

‘Our baby girl. We love you very much. Always will. Sorry babe this never should have happened. I wish I was there to protect you. We know you’re safe now and you’re at home with us everywhere we go.’

Does anyone think the bit in bold might be suggestive?

 

[Adorabella]

I hpe you do not mind,Adorabella but I have copied this from one of your previous posts.

3. Not sure why but I am not 'feeling' the 'phone as a big clue. From my understanding DN expected to see TS at home on Thursday evening (so the fact that TS stayed over at G'ma's that evening is more of a warning bell to me - although from what we have since discovered it seems she stayed there often).



I too remember this as being in DN's original statements.

He was not quoting some thing SH said as he used the word I.

He thought Tia was going to Croydon shopping and he would see her when he got back from work about 6pm.

In a later statement he said that Tia had had a friend stay the night and when he left for work they were on the couch together.

He also said in one of those statements that just as she was leaving she found her phone was dead so borrowed her mothers.

If she was with a friend when he went to work then I do not think she would be just leaving herself.

Of course I don't mind - I'm just not sure what you are saying. Sorry.

 

[laniefi]

WELCOME webnut!

:fireworks:

 

[Skigh]

Of course I don't mind - I'm just not sure what you are saying. Sorry.

Sorry that was not clear.

I was interested that you too had the impression that DN expected Tia home that evening.

I know I read a statement from DN which indicated that.

Then later that seemed to have been changed to him leaving Tia on the sofa with her friend.

I have tried to google articles about this but they have been removed online.

 

[soozieqtips]

I hpe you do not mind,Adorabella but I have copied this from one of your previous posts.

3. Not sure why but I am not 'feeling' the 'phone as a big clue. From my understanding DN expected to see TS at home on Thursday evening (so the fact that TS stayed over at G'ma's that evening is more of a warning bell to me - although from what we have since discovered it seems she stayed there often).



I too remember this as being in DN's original statements.

He was not quoting some thing SH said as he used the word I.

He thought Tia was going to Croydon shopping and he would see her when he got back from work about 6pm.

In a later statement he said that Tia had had a friend stay the night and when he left for work they were on the couch together.

He also said in one of those statements that just as she was leaving she found her phone was dead so borrowed her mothers.

If she was with a friend when he went to work then I do not think she would be just leaving herself.

That's a great point. DN discussed Tia's departure that day as if she'd left the house on her own. So where was her friend? Still in the house? Left earlier? He also said Tia was 'as good as gold'.... meaning what, that she hadn't 'annoyed' him recently?

I also thought that when he spoke about her returning home on Thursday at 6, that it was to Mitcham - because although he was allegedly repeating SH's version of events, he didn't repeat the story as if it had come from someone else, ie, 'he said she'd be home by 6'. He said it like he'd witnessed it first hand. It was very misleading.