GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #4

[Clio]

They would use cctv images to trace those journeys.

Wigs. Baseball or other headwear. Dyed hair. Glasses etc

Searching for male? Or female?

Which transport would they elect to scrutinise ? Which routes would they elect to scrutinise ? Why would they elect to pore over public-transport cctv looking for --- whom? On which days/or nights ?

I don't think the journeys would be neccessary. Phone triangulation, I believe works on the phone towers trangulating on the phone signal.

ETA Ignore this, misread original post

 

[josquin]

I think if SH was the only one involved and something happened to Tia ,when they were alone ,he would not put her in the loft,but take her and put her in the local woods.

(A nervous first post) If he killed her/she died on the Thursday evening he could have taken the body to dispose of it under cover of night. If it happened after dawn on Friday, the only option would have been the loft.

 

[laserdisc10]

But if they destroyed the sim the police would still have the phone providers records which would show the last place/area where the phone was used and last time calls were made from the phone

Yes, but I said in a post earlier up --- the 'last call' could be engineered to have been made anywhere, by anyone. The killer/s could have hopped on a bus or train (the mobile phone in hand) or by car or foot - made their way to this suburb then that - making brief phone calls which would register with this or that mobile tower. Then the phone could be stripped of its memory card and tossed in a ditch or shopping mall garbage bin or under a rock. The 'last call' could have been engineered to register with a mobile tower in Cornwall, if the killer/s were sufficiently intent on throwing suspicion from themselves

The body could have been placed in wasteland or in a disused railway yard, etc. Convenient for the police they found it in a loft after four searches. And stupid of the killer/s not to put a bit more effort into distancing the body from themselves

 

[Why why why]

If something happened to Tia in the house ,DS I am sure would know of the connecting lofts he would he be checking the whole house if he had the slightest suspicion it could be SH.

If it was just SH and a non family member how would SH know he would have the family support he did get.

If SH put Tia in the loft on his own how on earth would he have a hope of removing it with out any one else in the family knowing.

From DS's demeanour alone, he does not appear to have suspected SH of anything. Did DS live at that house (at any time) in order to know about the attic area?

I don't think SH "knew" anything about how the family would react to what happened/what he did to little Tia. Here we are considering the consequences after the event.

Maybe because he had no way of removing the body from the house he put it in the attic - he simply had no other choice at the time and it was definitely impossible to move it once the police were called in. Which is proven by the fact that the body was found there a week later. IMO she died in that house and was not moved in or out after that.

These people were mixed up with drug dealing/taking and were known to the police, this may have affected their expressions, attitude, behaviour towards the police/press involvement (it is obviously very intrusive when the whole world suddenly turns up on your doorstep with cameras) so I wouldn't interpret that as proving they were involved or knew anything about little Tia's murder. The only person who mentioned that the finger is being pointed at them (SH in the interview) is the person arrested and charged with her murder.

Unfortunately we do not know things that the police now know, so we can only guess about the rest of this weird "family".

 

[Clio]

My thought on this is that it was the phone that presented the problem.
An explanation could - just about - be given for no usage of the phone from Thursday evening until Friday midday
ie, Thursday playing on Xbox, Friday getting up late, getting ready to go out.....fairly weak excuses imo but still just about feasible.

But, after this time, there is no excuse for lack of phone usage, other than the one that was given - ie phone left on charge in the house.

So I think they could hardly wait until Saturday or beyond to report TS as missing, because first thing police likely to say is where you not concerned by Friday evening, 12 year old girl out without a phone, never been out late before etc...

Yes I think you have a point. I posted some time ago that there could be a reason which dictated the timeline in which she had to be reported missing. I think my example was that mabye she was expected to call NS before bed on the Friday night. But yours is probably a better reason.

 

[soozieqtips]

Where and when did SH say this? I don't remember this at all.

Several articles no longer exist, but here's a capture of one - although when you view the full article, that part is missing.

 

[laserdisc10]

(A nervous first post) If he killed her/she died on the Thursday evening he could have taken the body to dispose of it under cover of night. If it happened after dawn on Friday, the only option would have been the loft.

:wagon:



:Welcome1:



:welcome5:



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:welcome:





HI josquin --- nice to have your input. It makes as much sense as anything we've managed so far so don't be nervous, just plunge right in

 

[Inge Jones]

Red bold by me. Interesting. Do you think it was a slip of the tongue, or that he spoke a truth by accident. 'That' girl - not a very loving way to refer to the girl they all adored, is it?

Maybe he was being interviewed at the SH/CB house? Then saying "this" house would be correct for the story.

 

[laserdisc10]

I don't think the journeys would be neccessary. Phone triangulation, I believe works on the phone towers trangulating on the phone signal.

ETA Ignore this, misread original post

So the signal can be 'killed' by removal of the sim card ?

Mobile users who're street wise would know that, surely ?

If the signal cannot be terminated by the user (by removal of the sim ?) it just confirms my reasons for not having one, lol

 

[josquin]

Someone posted earlier that the Police are now saying no single officer to blame.....this article is really making me think....

http://www.london24.com/news/crime/...p_body_find_failings_says_met_chief_1_1490956

Also Sky news report. So does that mean it wasn't just one guy who went up there and missed it? Or that a decision was made from on high not to go up there? I remember a police spokesman being interviewed (very early on) and he said that they always tried to show some sensitivity in these cases - i.e. the last thing a traumatised family wants is to have the floorboards ripped up.
Also:
http://news.sky.com/story/975809/tia-no-sole-officer-blamed-for-body-blunder
That Tia photo is new to me. Also it's interesting to see the shot of the houses taken from above.

 

[laserdisc10]

Anyone have any thoughts about police reportedly speculating TS might still have been alive during the initial search whilst reportedly stating - simultaneously - that the body was in such advanced state of decomposition, identification necessitated dental records ?

 

[josquin]

:wagon:



:Welcome1:



:welcome5:



:welcome4:



:welcome:





HI josquin --- nice to have your input. It makes as much sense as anything we've managed so far so don't be nervous, just plunge right in

Thanks for the encouragement - and the welcome. Glad I got that red flashing one

 

[josquin]

Several articles no longer exist, but here's a capture of one - although when you view the full article, that part is missing.

Why are a number of articles no longer available? Is it just natural expiry after a certain period of time or some other reason?

 

[soozieqtips]

Why are a number of articles no longer available? Is it just natural expiry after a certain period of time or some other reason?

It's possibly because some of them contain information that could 'prejudice' a fair trial. SH's interview was also pulled from TV channels.

 

[soozieqtips]

Maybe he was being interviewed at the SH/CB house? Then saying "this" house would be correct for the story.

Yes. Thanks. A couple of other posters suggested the same thing. Assuming he was at CS's house at the time, this would make sense.

 

[Cherwell]

I posted, a few pages back, that my thought on this is......... by saying that TS had departed from the house in NA, they ( they being SH and whoever else may or may not have been part of the event ) thought that they were deflecting attention away from the house.
ie, the one place TS couldnt be was in that house, because defintely, positively, she had departed from the house.

Even better to say that somebody went with her at least part of the way ... problem would be that they wouldn't show up on CCTV - but then neither of course does Tia herself.

I've read comments made by CS's ex-spouse (biological father to NS and DS) made to the best of my knowledge after discovery of the body. Have also read comments made by one of CS's ex-lodgers. Read them after discovery of the body I think, but no way to know if the media sat on them since before discovery of the body. Also have read comments made by family-members of PM

Apart from that, have read or seen nothing from DN or NS or DS, which indicates to me that they are under investigation

This will be because someone has been charged. The media are only allowed to report strictly factual matters (such as court appearances) from that point. They can't publish stuff like interviews with people who may be witnesses.

If NS had some suspected involvement in knowing what had happened, would the police have issued a statement apologising for not discovering the body? I reckon she's clear, at least as far as the police are concerned.

It was quite striking that the police apology was addressed to Tia's mother, rather than the family as a whole.

 

[MobyBluff]

Also Sky news report. So does that mean it wasn't just one guy who went up there and missed it? Or that a decision was made from on high not to go up there? I remember a police spokesman being interviewed (very early on) and he said that they always tried to show some sensitivity in these cases - i.e. the last thing a traumatised family wants is to have the floorboards ripped up.
Also:
http://news.sky.com/story/975809/tia-no-sole-officer-blamed-for-body-blunder
That Tia photo is new to me. Also it's interesting to see the shot of the houses taken from above.

It says to me that more than one person searched the loft and didn't find it, making it even more likely that the body wasn't actually there at the time.

 

[laserdisc10]

Also Sky news report. So does that mean it wasn't just one guy who went up there and missed it? Or that a decision was made from on high not to go up there? I remember a police spokesman being interviewed (very early on) and he said that they always tried to show some sensitivity in these cases - i.e. the last thing a traumatised family wants is to have the floorboards ripped up.
Also:
http://news.sky.com/story/975809/tia-no-sole-officer-blamed-for-body-blunder
That Tia photo is new to me. Also it's interesting to see the shot of the houses taken from above.

Comments from the ex-Scotland Yard senior were scathing. First thing you do is clear the ground under your feet' he reportedly said, or words to that effect. And as many of us have said, when we lose our keys or wallet, we search the house and car from top to bottom, often more than once, before wandering off to search a square kilometre of green space

Experienced officers have expressed opinions along the line of police emerge from academies now, are career-driven, have little practical experience and seem to want to function as social-welfare rather than as hands-on officers of the law

In other fora, it's said there's a new head of communications at the Met, hence the swift public and private apologies re: the searches. The apology cannot be retracted, of course, so the Met has to run with it. It's also said that officers connected with the TS case are shaking in their shoes. Maybe the Met is anxious not to be seen as tossing up a scape-goat to answer for the failures

But, it's difficult to accept that dog-handlers and other expert officers did not discover a body in such a small dwelling throughout three, almost four searches - if the body was actually there

I'd like to know why police reportedly speculated TS may still have been alive during the preliminary search and would like to know that if they feel this may be the case, why it was that the body had to be identified via dental records due to advanced decomposition

 

[soozieqtips]

He said he knew exactly what Tia was wearing because “I washed her clothes that night”.

He believes she left the house to catch the 231 bus into Croydon, a journey that she had made many times before.

Mr Hazell said he met Tia in East Croydon at 4pm and they took the tram back to New Addington.

They spent the evening on the PlayStation which was “nothing unusual cos she’s cheating all the time”, he joked.
------------------------------------------------

It's in this article.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tia-sharp-stuart-hazell-interview-1246879

 

[Alyce]

Yes, but I said in a post earlier up --- the 'last call' could be engineered to have been made anywhere, by anyone. The killer/s could have hopped on a bus or train (the mobile phone in hand) or by car or foot - made their way to this suburb then that - making brief phone calls which would register with this or that mobile tower. Then the phone could be stripped of its memory card and tossed in a ditch or shopping mall garbage bin or under a rock. The 'last call' could have been engineered to register with a mobile tower in Cornwall, if the killer/s were sufficiently intent on throwing suspicion from themselves

The body could have been placed in wasteland or in a disused railway yard, etc. Convenient for the police they found it in a loft after four searches. And stupid of the killer/s not to put a bit more effort into distancing the body from themselves

I agree Laser, with a bit more thought, they could have done a much better cover up.
Which leads me to think that the event was an accident in some way, followed by panic and removal of body quickly to perhaps a * temporary* hiding place.

After this, and before a better plan could be worked on, the police arrived in NA.

Also, dependant on time of death, if it was say Friday afternoon, then perhaps the hasty removal to the loft (if indeed that is what was done ) was because there may have been the worry that someone else would come into the house.

So many people have lived there at one time or another, and I doubt they bothered to change the locks, so there could be a fair number of relatives who had keys and who might call round and enter the house with their own key.