Resolved UK - Whitstable, Kent, Multiple Remains in bags, Jan'19 - historic/middle age

[LarkBunting]

This is so nauseating to me. I can’t even begin to think of stomaching what kind of nasty behavior may have occurred here.

Also, this American had to Google search why you Brits were laughing about knobs.

 

[SandyQLS]

This is so nauseating to me. I can’t even begin to think of stomaching what kind of nasty behavior may have occurred here.

Also, this American had to Google search why you Brits were laughing about knobs.

Oh dear. A more proper term is head of the bone, head of the femur - but then the Americans would giggle. I had no idea knob meant anything, learn something every day. Have the Brits heard of Punxsutawney Phil and Gobbler's Knob?

Anyway, maybe the bones are very, very old like Roman, Norman, Pict? Were there battles in that area where the soldiers hacked each other up? One would think a modern person would understand the archeological significance of very old bones and not just bag them up and rebury them without telling authorities.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Oh dear. A more proper term is head of the bone, head of the femur - but then the Americans would giggle. I had no idea knob meant anything, learn something every day. Have the Brits heard of Punxsutawney Phil and Gobbler's Knob?

Anyway, maybe the bones are very, very old like Roman, Norman, Pict? Were there battles in that area where the soldiers hacked each other up? One would think a modern person would understand the archeological significance of very old bones and not just bag them up and rebury them without telling authorities.

....Unless they are ancient bones that were found on a building site, the existence of which could cause a time consuming and costly delay in construction, so some bright spark decided to just get rid of them. I think we'll find out pretty soon how old the bones are. The grisly sleuth in me wants them to be so recent that we can get a few threads marked SOLVED.

And I think it was mainly just me giggling at knob jokes! In my defence I've spent all day in the company of pre-teens. Kids watching a wildlife program about dik-diks has caused much sniggering chez Cags this evening. Infantile.

 

[lizziginne]

Some of the cuts of those bones look almost medical, like I’d expect to see in a hip or knee replacement?
Resolving some older UK missing persons cases with this would definitely be a bonus but I’m not convinced this is going to turn out to be a serial killer or anything like that for some reason

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Some of the cuts of those bones look almost medical, like I’d expect to see in a hip or knee replacement?
Resolving some older UK missing persons cases with this would definitely be a bonus but I’m not convinced this is going to turn out to be a serial killer or anything like that for some reason

I agree, if they were intact skeletons I'd assume they were historical and/or from a burial plot, but it's the being chopped up bit that's piquing my interest.

I saw a snippet where a local guy said the garage used to be on the shoreline, and it seems Whitstable once had an island very close to shore which has since been joined up / filled in / become part of the mainland and built on. Not sure if that has any bearing on anything at all (like, could those bones have been thrown off a boat and been buried in sand/mud for years?). Anyway, what I can't find out is when the island and mainland were joined together, and why; it seems an unusual thing to do.

 

[jessie]

Bones have been washed up on the Kent coast, probably from old shipwrecks. It would be a "nice" answer but......

link: Human BONES found washed up on Kent beaches ‘are from historic shipwrecks’

HUMAN bones and timbers have been discovered washed up on Kent beaches which are thought to be from historic shipwrecks. The gruesome discoveries have been made at two popular beaches following recent storms and gales.
PUBLISHED: 15:35, Thu, May 17, 2018 | UPDATED: 15:53, Thu, May 17, 2018

 

[silverjug]

Bones have been washed up on the Kent coast, probably from old shipwrecks. It would be a "nice" answer but......


Human BONES found washed up on Kent beaches ‘are from historic shipwrecks’
HUMAN bones and timbers have been discovered washed up on Kent beaches which are thought to be from historic shipwrecks. The gruesome discoveries have been made at two popular beaches following recent storms and gales.
PUBLISHED: 15:35, Thu, May 17, 2018 | UPDATED: 15:53, Thu, May 17, 2018

It certainly would be a "tidy" answer, though the thought of people wandering up and down the beaches filling black sacks with old bones is rather grim.

 

[Al Ka]

Bones have been washed up on the Kent coast, probably from old shipwrecks. It would be a "nice" answer but......

link: Human BONES found washed up on Kent beaches ‘are from historic shipwrecks’

HUMAN bones and timbers have been discovered washed up on Kent beaches which are thought to be from historic shipwrecks. The gruesome discoveries have been made at two popular beaches following recent storms and gales.
PUBLISHED: 15:35, Thu, May 17, 2018 | UPDATED: 15:53, Thu, May 17, 2018

Very interesting article and natural phenomena happening in that area. Thank you for posting it.

 

[Al Ka]

It certainly would be a "tidy" answer, though the thought of people wandering up and down the beaches filling black sacks with old bones is rather grim.

Agreed. Even if some old remains were unearthed very long time ago, collecting and bagging all those fragments takes some kind of specialist, someone with knowledge what is or is not bone (coroner, medical examiner etc).

Looking at the photo I have posted previously I can say that most of regular people would not know or think that most of those displayed are actual bones. Nor would most of us recognize them if we stumble upon such a bone fragments in a wild. (Of course unless bone has a knob . )

So, how those different fragments of bones of different people ended up in 2 bags buried 6 feet under, in garage?

 

[Al Ka]

If you choose cases where the person went missing more than 3 years ago most of the Vietnamese names disappear, so that could be a more recent phenomenon than the origin of these bones. I have wondered about so many Vietnamese-sounding names on missing persons lists, but there are so many that I don't think they could be attributable to a serial killer.

I have wondered for many years too and no it is not serial killer. I did have found answers and have published it here - UK - UK - Lingran Lin, 11, & Lingshan Lin, 15, Hove, Sussex, 29 July 2006 (Human Trafficking)

I wish that site would list in date order of the person going missing, I find it frustrating that they have random organization. The other thing is that if the plastic bag could be from any time since the 1950s, many of these names might be way too late?

I am curious if there are any similarities in the names on that list though, gender, age, occupation, place and time where they went missing, etc.

They are the best out there in what they do but I share your frustrations with that database (or rather photo collection how I call it), but that is a bit different story...

 

[otto]

Very interesting point. I was looking for mandibles with teeth in the photo but could not note any. You're right, where are the skulls? Head hair can last for centuries, even millenia.

The bones look cleaned of flesh. If they had been buried in plastic bags with flesh on, wouldn't there still be remnants? I wonder if they had been cut up to boil or acid bath in a container like a metal drum?

Who has plastic bags full of cleaned, cut bones from multiple people?!

That is a pretty crazy question under normal circumstances.

I'm curious when the gas station was built, when the sea wall was built, and given that black plastic bags have been around since the 1950s (previous comment), I do wonder if someone wiped out an entire family and maybe moved into the area at the same time.

 

[Elainera]

Contractors using a digger found a rubble bag buried six feet below ground at the location in Whitstable, Kent, on January 21.

black plastic bags first came into use in the 1950s.

Thanks Al Ka for posting this article. These two bits stood out to me.

How long does it take to dig a 6 ft deep hole that fits two bulky plastic bags? Should be at least 2x2 ft wide? But, such a narrow hole would be very difficult to dig, if not impossible, once you get deeper, so it was probably a wider hole, like 3x3 ft at least? How long does it take to dig that? I think the person(s) would have lived or worked on the premises to have enough time to be there without anyone becoming suspicious, and to know when there's likely noone around for some hours to give them time to dig that hole. Probably done at night?

I would think investigators will be able to narrow down the timeframe by analysing the bags. Black bags are available since the 50s but since then have probably seen lots of new varieties regarding size, thickness, composition of material used, etc. Maybe they can even trace the bags back to the manufacturer and figure out when exactly they were made, or discontinued. I hope we'll hear their findings on the bags!

Does the term "rubbel bags" used in the quote imply they were thicker and larger than garbage bags?

Looking at the picture of the bones (my God so many!) ... I think bones can get very brittle in just a few years if not embalmed and buried in a protective casket, so I don't think these are ancient bones but I'm no expert. jmo

The color and staining of these bones should give the forensic investigators an idea where and how they might have been stored previously. Air, moisture, soil composition, etc makes a difference on how bones look after some time of degradation.

 

[Atoz]

I doubt anyone did dig a 6 foot hole to bury the bones, and more likely they were just put there during building work for the garage and/or car parks many years ago. As CovermeCagney points out, it's not unheard of for builders to discover human remains and to simply ignore the find due to knowing that reporting it to authorities may halt building work for weeks or months at great cost to the contractors.

 

[Gracie55]

I doubt anyone did dig a 6 foot hole to bury the bones, and more likely they were just put there during building work for the garage and/or car parks many years ago. As CovermeCagney points out, it's not unheard of for builders to discover human remains and to simply ignore the find due to knowing that reporting it to authorities may halt building work for weeks or months at great cost to the contractors.

Maybe contractors would have reburied ancient bones, but would they have cut them into pieces like that?

 

[Elainera]

I tried to find out more about when the auto repair shop was established but apparently I'm not a good enough sleuth. I only found this but am not sure what exactly it means:

Reference: CCA-UD-WT/O/P/ES/71/334
Title: Whitstable, Shaftesbury Road, rear of Day's garage
Description:
Renewal of 9 lock-up garages and provision of double garage as paintshop - see 71/253
Date: 1971
Held by: Canterbury Cathedral Archives and Library, not available at The National Archives

Whitstable, Shaftesbury Road, rear of Day's garage | The National Archives

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Maybe contractors would have reburied ancient bones, but would they have cut them into pieces like that?

No. I really don't think so. If you knew you were concealing ancient bones I doubt you'd make yourself more complicit by meddling with them.

Would a digger slice through bones like that? Some of the breaks look so clean as if they've been done with an axe.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Description:
Renewal of 9 lock-up garages and provision of double garage as paintshop - see 71/253
Date: 1971

That's interesting, lock up garages would suggest that spaces were rented out to individuals. Who knows what might have been going on behind those locked doors?

 

[Elainera]

That's interesting, lock up garages would suggest that spaces were rented out to individuals. Who knows what might have been going on behind those locked doors?

True! I didn't even think of that.

Is the "paintshop" the actual auto repair shop?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

True! I didn't even think of that.

Is the "paintshop" the actual auto repair shop?

I'm not sure. I've seen it described as a paintshop, a petrol station and a mechanics garage. Not had time to suss out what it was and when it changed.

I can't wait to find out how old these bones are, it's a game changer either way!

 

[Legally Bland]

You can see the lock up garage here.

Google Maps

ETA: Garage services: