My DH is an older gentleman who is legally blind and almost deaf and he smokes. It would not be unusual for him to go out at 3:00 AM to get cigs out of the car. He has to smoke outside because I don't smoke and have lung problems. If the police yelled at him while he was looking through the car he probably would not understand what was going on because of his disabilities and probably wouldn't know what to do. Apparently if we lived in FL he'd get shot and people would think that the police had a right to do so. JMO
Unarmed Man Shot by Deputies Inside His Own Car Outside His Own Home
- Thread starter Steely Dan
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Sonya610
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And I believe it is really easy to see racism as ignorance when you do NOT live around those "issues".
I grew up in Liberal California and I was NOT racist. I moved to the South and suddenly realized there was a pattern to crime. A pattern to those areas of town with bars on the windows. A pattern to those areas where crime was rare and there were no bars on windows or bullet proof glass. Poverty didn't explain it, not by half, especially when Cadillac Escalades and high priced SUV's were used in petty robberies.
I wasn't raised to think anything regarding the matter, real life made me recognize risks and crime rates differ and if I don't want to be a part of it or feel threatened by it then I had best pay close attention to demographics.
Knowing the facts about crime and crime rates and being able to accurately profile areas with a high likelihood of criminals is the exact opposite of "ignorance".
wendiesan
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What does the police dashcam footage show?
Why didn't the officers run the plate to check the owners information? Most police cars have as standard equipment a computer which is capable of finding these facts and much more in seconds.
How much time did they give Mr. Middleton to comply with the commands they issued to his back? What in the LEOs minds was reasonable time? Was it long enough for someone with back problems to accomplish? Was it long enough for someone with hearing problems to realize what the words were when they couldn't see the speaker's lips?
Why didn't the officers run the plate to check the owners information? Most police cars have as standard equipment a computer which is capable of finding these facts and much more in seconds.
How much time did they give Mr. Middleton to comply with the commands they issued to his back? What in the LEOs minds was reasonable time? Was it long enough for someone with back problems to accomplish? Was it long enough for someone with hearing problems to realize what the words were when they couldn't see the speaker's lips?
txsvicki
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Speaking of the car, I hope it isn't ruined by bullet holes. If the man shares it with his mother, she is even older than him and probably really upset enough about her son without the added car damage.
mysteriew
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I saw a pic of it. It is drivable. But it has some pretty big holes in it on the outside. I couldn't see the inside.
Donjeta
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Do we know that the officers didn't run the plate? I'm not sure what it would have accomplished anyway since they didn't approach the car thinking it might have been stolen from somewhere, they approached a car that belonged to someone who lived there which they already knew from the 911 call. If they were talking to and shooting at Middleton's back they wouldn't have been able to ID him from a driving licence photo.
All I know is there seems to be huge chunks of the story that's missing and people's reactions are based on the headline and not the details (because there isn't a whole lot of that). I certainly think it's possible that LE had itchy trigger fingers, I'm not jumping into the 'because he's black' bandwagon though. As if no white guy (or any other race) hasn't been shot at by LE who were quick to discharge their firearm.
ScarlettScarpetta
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I will be interested in where the investigation goes. From what I got yesterday in coverage, He did not comply with police direction. I don't know. For the police sake I hope so, But really did they have to shoot him so many times? I don't know. He had no weapon but did he make a gesture like he was reaching for one?
I have to think that approaching people in cars has got to be incredibly scary and anxious process. Who knows what people have hidden in their cars.
When a cop approaches my car, I put my hands on the wheel and wait for them to instruct me because first off I want them to know I am not going to harm them.
Just seems so insane but am looking forward to more facts.. not perceptions on this case.
I have to think that approaching people in cars has got to be incredibly scary and anxious process. Who knows what people have hidden in their cars.
When a cop approaches my car, I put my hands on the wheel and wait for them to instruct me because first off I want them to know I am not going to harm them.
Just seems so insane but am looking forward to more facts.. not perceptions on this case.
killarney rose
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wendiesan
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RE Elley Mae "Was this his mother's house? Did he live with his mother or was he visiting?"
http://gawker.com/unarmed-man-shot-by-deputies-inside-his-own-car-outside-949237195
Other reports also state he lived in the house and shared the car with his mother.
http://gawker.com/unarmed-man-shot-by-deputies-inside-his-own-car-outside-949237195
Other reports also state he lived in the house and shared the car with his mother.
wendiesan
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RE: Sonia 610 "Seriously people. He was rifling through a Lincon Town Car at 3 am for an extended period of time looking for cigarettes. <modsnip>
I can't believe that some people actually assume that anyone looking for a cigarette at 3 am should be automatically labelled a criminal. Among people who may finish work in the early morning hours are: obstetricians, nurses, emergency medical technicians, waiters, waitresses, bartenders, delivery workers, long distance truckers, cab drivers, musicians, pharmacists, bakers, home health aides, film crew members, actors, funeral directors, night auditors, factory shift workers, firefighters, military service personnel, airport workers, security officers, broadcasting industry workers, insomniacs, writers, travellers. None of them would have to be "high" to enjoy smoking a cigarette in the early morning IN THEIR OWN CAR IN THE DRIVEWAY OF THEIR OWN HOME.
Is a Lincoln Town Car suspicious? Is it the kind of car only drug dealers would use? Is it just the kind of car some one would steal but not own? Is it the kind of car that doesn't belong somehow? Sorry, but I don't understand the reference in this situation.
I can't believe that some people actually assume that anyone looking for a cigarette at 3 am should be automatically labelled a criminal. Among people who may finish work in the early morning hours are: obstetricians, nurses, emergency medical technicians, waiters, waitresses, bartenders, delivery workers, long distance truckers, cab drivers, musicians, pharmacists, bakers, home health aides, film crew members, actors, funeral directors, night auditors, factory shift workers, firefighters, military service personnel, airport workers, security officers, broadcasting industry workers, insomniacs, writers, travellers. None of them would have to be "high" to enjoy smoking a cigarette in the early morning IN THEIR OWN CAR IN THE DRIVEWAY OF THEIR OWN HOME.
Is a Lincoln Town Car suspicious? Is it the kind of car only drug dealers would use? Is it just the kind of car some one would steal but not own? Is it the kind of car that doesn't belong somehow? Sorry, but I don't understand the reference in this situation.
From pnj.com article linked a few posts upthread:
"The partner in a high-profile Florida law firm is primed to represent a 60-year-old Warrington man shot by officers in his own driveway."
"Lorenzo Williams, an attorney with the South Florida-based Gary, Williams, Parenti, Watson & Gary, PL confirmed Wednesday that he will represent Roy Middleton as his family explores a possible suit against the Escambia County Sheriff’s Office."
Per article, atty Williams said:
“But based upon what I can see, I can tell you this was a clear case of unjustifiable use of deadly force,” he said.
"Williams said he plans to meet with Middleton in Pensacola later this week."
BBM
------------------------------------------------------
I wonder if Williams and Middleton have spoken.
ETA: about either Middleton's account of the events, or about Williams's rep'ing him.
---------------------------------------------------
St of Fl Bar Assoc. registry,
http://www.floridabar.org/names.nsf/0/B844D04667A618B085256A8300565400?OpenDocument
Link to Williams' bio/CV from law firm website:
http://www.garylawgroup.com/law/attorneys/lw.pdf
"The partner in a high-profile Florida law firm is primed to represent a 60-year-old Warrington man shot by officers in his own driveway."
"Lorenzo Williams, an attorney with the South Florida-based Gary, Williams, Parenti, Watson & Gary, PL confirmed Wednesday that he will represent Roy Middleton as his family explores a possible suit against the Escambia County Sheriff’s Office."
Per article, atty Williams said:
“But based upon what I can see, I can tell you this was a clear case of unjustifiable use of deadly force,” he said.
"Williams said he plans to meet with Middleton in Pensacola later this week."
BBM
------------------------------------------------------
I wonder if Williams and Middleton have spoken.
ETA: about either Middleton's account of the events, or about Williams's rep'ing him.
---------------------------------------------------
St of Fl Bar Assoc. registry,
http://www.floridabar.org/names.nsf/0/B844D04667A618B085256A8300565400?OpenDocument
Link to Williams' bio/CV from law firm website:
http://www.garylawgroup.com/law/attorneys/lw.pdf
How accurate are the neighbor's observations, made during 911 call at time of events or in media reports now?
His 911 call.
911 transcript showed he reported the vehicle as a Cadillac,
but it was a Lincoln.
His comment afterwards.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/31/us/flo...ing/index.html
"I don't have any doubt -- even not being able to see what was going on -- that he was complying with them," he told CNN. " Maybe not in the time frame that the officer was looking for -- but it seemed he was complying." BBM
So...neighbor was saying he could not see what was going on?
But... he concluded it seemed the man was complying, albeit slowly?
In some situations, slow compliance is no compliance.
His 911 call.
911 transcript showed he reported the vehicle as a Cadillac,
but it was a Lincoln.
His comment afterwards.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/31/us/flo...ing/index.html
"I don't have any doubt -- even not being able to see what was going on -- that he was complying with them," he told CNN. " Maybe not in the time frame that the officer was looking for -- but it seemed he was complying." BBM
So...neighbor was saying he could not see what was going on?
But... he concluded it seemed the man was complying, albeit slowly?
In some situations, slow compliance is no compliance.
Blondie in Spokane
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really not much new here....
‘There was nothing glaringly apparent to us that the officers did that was out of the ordinary in the given set of circumstances as have been given to us,’ Morgan said in an interview with CNN.
The deputies involved in the shooting have been placed on paid administrative leave pending an internal investigation that will determine whether any charges will be filed against them.
Mr Middleton is now planning to file a civil lawsuit against the sheriff's office claiming excessive use of force. Beside punitive damages, the 60-year-old also wants an apology.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cent-man-15-TIMES-driveway.html#ixzz2ckwgjFdp
‘There was nothing glaringly apparent to us that the officers did that was out of the ordinary in the given set of circumstances as have been given to us,’ Morgan said in an interview with CNN.
The deputies involved in the shooting have been placed on paid administrative leave pending an internal investigation that will determine whether any charges will be filed against them.
Mr Middleton is now planning to file a civil lawsuit against the sheriff's office claiming excessive use of force. Beside punitive damages, the 60-year-old also wants an apology.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cent-man-15-TIMES-driveway.html#ixzz2ckwgjFdp