Updated Poll: Your opinion--has it changed?

[pufnstuf]

No, I think it was an acquaintance/stranger abduction. The school had no proper sign in protocol in place, mixing children accompanied by parent(s) with children unaccompanied so standard protocol should have been followed with due diligence considering that the school announced that the school was open to all and prevented this from happening.

I have not read anywhere that the teacher notified the office of Kyron's absence, and regardless of her reason for not doing so, IMO, if he had been marked absent and the office followed up, we would have heard about this a long time ago and Terri would be behind bars today. The teacher did not do her job. The part of the job that includes informing the office when one of her charges was not in class. JMO

And last but not least. I have followed this case since day one, read every article published in MSM along with a very good portion of the comments attached to these online. I have watched and listened to all LE press conferences and parent interviews and have kept pretty up to date on WS's Kyron forum posts by everyone here. I have even followed other "crime sites", where some all believe that Terri did it and others are a little more objective and are considering many other scenarios - I still have not changed my position one iota since that first day. I have seen no evidence that convinces me that Terri is involved. JMO

BBM.

If it were a stranger abduction, why would Terri be in jail today?

The third bolded comment: Are you saying that people who think Terri did this are not objective, and that they haven't considered other scenarios? I think we've discussed this before, and, well, I'll just say that I vehemently disagree with you. There's just no other plausible explanation for Kyron going missing. The more we learn, the more it points to Terri. Unless someone did a masterful job of framing her, and I really don't think that's the case.

My opinion is that, had the school followed rigid protocol, Terri would have been well aware of this, and she would have used another locale for Kyron's disappearance/"abduction."

 

[stmarysmead]

When a child (or anyone) goes missing suddenly, it's just common sense and a standard investigative 'red flag" , to look closely at the last person known to be seen with that missing person.

In this case, that's Terri Horman.

It's common sense and a "red flag", to look closely at anyone in the parameters of the case who fails a lie detector test (or three)

In this case, according to her, that's Terri Horman.

It's common sense and a "red flag" to question why the person who has failed the Lie Detector test ALSO cannot account for her time in the hours immediately following the disappearance. And why her alibi is THE EXACT ONE she suggests using to lie to her own lawyers in her sexts.

In this case, that person is Terri Horman.

It's common sense and a "red flag" to see if there is anyone who has "intense hatred" for the victim.

In this case,that's Terri Horman.

It's common sense and a "red flag" to see if there is anyone who expressed a desire to hurt the victim.

In this case, that's Terri Horman.

It's common sense and a "red flag" to see if anyone in the victim's life had a propensity to criminal violence (like trying to hire a killer)

In this case , that's Terri Horman.

So here is Terri Horman..surrounded by red flags vs.....??????

Why should LE or anyone...invest in other scenarios? Or blame the teacher or the school?

Is there anyone else in this case that has as many "red flags" as Terri Horman?

 

[Trt]

BBM.

If it were a stranger abduction, why would Terri be in jail today?

The third bolded comment: Are you saying that people who think Terri did this are not objective, and that they haven't considered other scenarios? I think we've discussed this before, and, well, I'll just say that I vehemently disagree with you. There's just no other plausible explanation for Kyron going missing. The more we learn, the more it points to Terri. Unless someone did a masterful job of framing her, and I really don't think that's the case.

My opinion is that, had the school followed rigid protocol, Terri would have been well aware of this, and she would have used another locale for Kyron's disappearance/"abduction."

Ita...Terri was aware of the school's policies and even if it *had* been imperative that she sign Kyron out at the office, she could have stood over the sign out sheet and pretended to sign it. There are not school officials at school who are assigned to watch a parent as they are signing a child out. She could have faked that too and then when it came up, faked ignorance or
another explanation as she has done with the doctor's appointment. She could have said that she never told the front office that she was there to take him *then*, only to inform them of an upcoming absence. She could have said "why didn't I sign him out of I was planning to take him with me?"

A school, even a tightly secured one, is no match for a PARENT that has intentions of taking off with their child and lying about it later. Jmo

 

[PortlandMama]

BBM.

If it were a stranger abduction, why would Terri be in jail today?

The third bolded comment: Are you saying that people who think Terri did this are not objective, and that they haven't considered other scenarios? I think we've discussed this before, and, well, I'll just say that I vehemently disagree with you. There's just no other plausible explanation for Kyron going missing. The more we learn, the more it points to Terri. Unless someone did a masterful job of framing her, and I really don't think that's the case.

My opinion is that, had the school followed rigid protocol, Terri would have been well aware of this, and she would have used another locale for Kyron's disappearance/"abduction."

BBM. Apparently plausibility is in the eye of the beholder. I think a stranger or acquaintance abduction is quite plausible in this case.

 

[SacreBleu]

BBM. Apparently plausibility is in the eye of the beholder. I think a stranger or acquaintance abduction is quite plausible in this case.

There are many plausible scenarios - problem is they are not probable. The laws of probability point to Terri. JMO.

Btw - nonfictionrocks - the teacher did mark Kyron absent when class started at 10 am.

 

[PortlandMama]

There are many plausible scenarios - problem is they are not probable. The laws of probability point to Terri. JMO.

Btw - nonfictionrocks - the teacher did mark Kyron absent when class started at 10 am.

That is not the argument that was being made, nor the one to which I was responding. Like nonfictionrocks, I think that in this particular case a nonfamily abduction is the most likely scenario. Probably, IMO, a sexual predator and a crime of opportunity. I have followed this case extremely closely from the evening of June 4, and that is where I am today given everything we know. I am not ruling out the possibility of Terri being responsible, but given the particulars of the case that is not what I am leaning toward.

 

[Trt]

I couldn't imagine a plausible or probable scenario that includes a nonfamily member abducting Kyron that accounts for all the inconsistencies in Terri's story or her unwillingness to fight for her daughter because, according to her lawyers, she "values her freedom."

JMO

 

[stmarysmead]

There are many red flags and inconsistencies that point to Terri. I would like to read a common sense listing of the red flags that point to a stranger abduction. I truly would like to understand the logic behind this viewpoint.

It is one thing to say we should keep an open mind, but I'd like to understand what key events we have learned to date that point to a stranger abduction being "most likely?"

Terri is the last person to see the child; she claims she failed lie detector tests; she cannot account for a long period of her time that day; she used the same lie about "driving around" to try to deceive her own attorneys; she professed an "extreme" hatred of the child; she wrote emails saying she like to hurt him; and LE has a witness who says she tried to hire that person to kill her husband.

Therefore...why is all that to be discarded and why is someone else the "most likely scenario?" I think we learn by hearing the details behind each others position.

 

[grandmaj]

Everyone knock off the snark.

 

[pufnstuf]

That is not the argument that was being made, nor the one to which I was responding. Like nonfictionrocks, I think that in this particular case a nonfamily abduction is the most likely scenario. Probably, IMO, a sexual predator and a crime of opportunity. I have followed this case extremely closely from the evening of June 4, and that is where I am today given everything we know. I am not ruling out the possibility of Terri being responsible, but given the particulars of the case that is not what I am leaning toward.

BBM...

What particulars cause you to lean toward sexual predation or a nonfamily abduction?

 

[ami]

No, I think it was an acquaintance/stranger abduction. The school had no proper sign in protocol in place, mixing children accompanied by parent(s) with children unaccompanied so standard protocol should have been followed with due diligence considering that the school announced that the school was open to all and prevented this from happening.

I have not read anywhere that the teacher notified the office of Kyron's absence, and regardless of her reason for not doing so, IMO, if he had been marked absent and the office followed up, we would have heard about this a long time ago and Terri would be behind bars today. The teacher did not do her job. The part of the job that includes informing the office when one of her charges was not in class. JMO

And last but not least. I have followed this case since day one, read every article published in MSM along with a very good portion of the comments attached to these online. I have watched and listened to all LE press conferences and parent interviews and have kept pretty up to date on WS's Kyron forum posts by everyone here. I have even followed other "crime sites", where some all believe that Terri did it and others are a little more objective and are considering many other scenarios - I still have not changed my position one iota since that first day. I have seen no evidence that convinces me that Terri is involved. JMO

I guess I just can't see how the school can prevent parental abduction. If the teacher reported Kyron's absence to the office -- how would that prevent abduction? He's already gone by the time the absent mark is recorded. And how would the school's absentee system have created a case against Terri? I honestly don't follow that.

Also, when Kyron didn't get off the bus and the bus driver called in to the school for information, the driver was told Kyron was marked absent that day. Which tells me the office did know he was absent.

 

[citigirl]

I guess I just can't see how the school can prevent parental abduction. If the teacher reported Kyron's absence to the office -- how would that prevent abduction? He's already gone by the time the absent mark is recorded. And how would the school's absentee system have created a case against Terri? I honestly don't follow that.

Also, when Kyron didn't get off the bus and the bus driver called in to the school for information, the driver was told Kyron was marked absent that day. Which tells me the office did know he was absent.

I agree with you that it would be difficult to prevent a parental abduction, but there was a lot of unnecessary chaos caused by teacher not taking roll until 10:00. there were children in the building without parents and roll was not taken? Doesn't make sense to me...I don't understand the rationale for not taking roll until 10:00.

But if this was a stranger abduction, this chaos is what allowed the abduction to happen. No question about it in my mind.

 

[ami]

I agree with you that it would be difficult to prevent a parental abduction, but there was a lot of unnecessary chaos caused by teacher not taking roll until 10:00. there were children in the building without parents and roll was not taken? Doesn't make sense to me...I don't understand the rationale for not taking roll until 10:00.

But if this was a stranger abduction, this chaos is what allowed the abduction to happen. No question about it in my mind.

True, but let's say they asked the students to start off in their seats in their classrooms at the opening bell (before touring the science fair). The parents milling around at the exhibits, the kids at their desks for attendance. Roll is called, and Kyron is there. We know he was there anyway because of the picture and all the people who saw him, but in this scenario he's also "officially" present. Then the kids are released to look at the exhibits - some with parents, some without parents, but with teachers present in the room as well (we know this because of Terri's convo with a teacher as they stood at the exhibit). So far everyone is accounted for and safe.

Then comes time for the parents to leave (or not? some may have stayed to chaperon). Terri leaves, and around the same time Kyron is gone as well. A second post-fair attendance is taken. No Kyron. At first the teacher thinks - probably bathroom. Upon further thought - oh yes, Terri mentioned taking him to the doctor, so that's where he is. Kyron is then marked absent and the roll sheets sent to the office where he's officially absent.

Even if roll had been called in the earlier morning, I think this scenario would still have played out as it did, only because the teachers weren't unaware that Kyron had been there in the morning. They saw him, talked to him, talked to Terri - there was no question that he was present that morning and gone later. It's the fact that his mother was also present early and gone later that allowed them to believe that he'd left with her. If they saw him with Terri, and when Terri was gone Kyron was gone, then it does make sense in a safe environment where foul play is never really feared that he left with his Mom.

So in a stranger abduction scenario, this is also the "cover" as it were, whether intentional or not. Kids and parents are in the same place, and when parents leave and one of the kids also is gone, it does make sense that under normal circumstances the child has left with the parent. And even early roll calls wouldn't have really changed that innocent perception.

My thought, if Terri isn't the guilty party, is more in line with an acquaintance abduction rather than out and out 'stranger' off the street. Someone who saw an opportunity and took it during a time of low-key chaos where adults and kids mingled freely and regular time schedules were temporarily suspended. A school worker, another relative present at the fair at the same time.

Again though I do think if Terri is innocent of abduction that it's incredibly bad luck for her that the doctors appointment she made was on a friday and Kyron's abduction was on a friday, allowing a mis-attribution of Kyron's absence to the appointment, and that the teacher rightly heard the part of Terri's sentence that indicated that baby K's ear was infected, but mis-heard the part of the sentence that said Kyron was being taken to the doctor, too.

 

[citigirl]

True, but let's say they asked the students to start off in their seats in their classrooms at the opening bell (before touring the science fair). The parents milling around at the exhibits, the kids at their desks for attendance. Roll is called, and Kyron is there. We know he was there anyway because of the picture and all the people who saw him, but in this scenario he's also "officially" present. Then the kids are released to look at the exhibits - some with parents, some without parents, but with teachers present in the room as well (we know this because of Terri's convo with a teacher as they stood at the exhibit). So far everyone is accounted for and safe.

Then comes time for the parents to leave (or not? some may have stayed to chaperon). Terri leaves, and around the same time Kyron is gone as well. A second post-fair attendance is taken. No Kyron. At first the teacher thinks - probably bathroom. Upon further thought - oh yes, Terri mentioned taking him to the doctor, so that's where he is. Kyron is then marked absent and the roll sheets sent to the office where he's officially absent.

Even if roll had been called in the earlier morning, I think this scenario would still have played out as it did, only because the teachers weren't unaware that Kyron had been there in the morning. They saw him, talked to him, talked to Terri - there was no question that he was present that morning and gone later. It's the fact that his mother was also present early and gone later that allowed them to believe that he'd left with her. If they saw him with Terri, and when Terri was gone Kyron was gone, then it does make sense in a safe environment where foul play is never really feared that he left with his Mom.

So in a stranger abduction scenario, this is also the "cover" as it were, whether intentional or not. Kids and parents are in the same place, and when parents leave and one of the kids also is gone, it does make sense that under normal circumstances the child has left with the parent. And even early roll calls wouldn't have really changed that innocent perception.

My thought, if Terri isn't the guilty party, is more in line with an acquaintance abduction rather than out and out 'stranger' off the street. Someone who saw an opportunity and took it during a time of low-key chaos where adults and kids mingled freely and regular time schedules were temporarily suspended. A school worker, another relative present at the fair at the same time.

Again though I do think if Terri is innocent of abduction that it's incredibly bad luck for her that the doctors appointment she made was on a friday and Kyron's abduction was on a friday, allowing a mis-attribution of Kyron's absence to the appointment, and that the teacher rightly heard the part of Terri's sentence that indicated that baby K's ear was infected, but mis-heard the part of the sentence that said Kyron was being taken to the doctor, too.

Yes, what you said could have happened, but if Terri was required to sign Kyron out in the office, the roll would have come back to the office showing Kyron absent, but never checked out in the front office. The roll usually comes back to the office in the first hour. If there is a discrepancy, the office will call home just to check.

 

[ami]

Yes, what you said could have happened, but if Terri was required to sign Kyron out in the office, the roll would have come back to the office showing Kyron absent, but never checked out in the front office. The roll usually comes back to the office in the first hour. If there is a discrepancy, the office will call home just to check.

Yep, I agree. I'm just thinking that in an informal situation (science fair, parents coming and going) there wouldn't have been an easy way to check if the child left with Mom as part of a general exodus after an event (the office people wouldn't have been able to track everyone's exit the way they would ordinarily) or if he was missing. Maybe on a normal day they'd have been alarmed - he was here, now he's not, did Mom take him, I'm not sure, let's call just in case.

I mean I agree with what you're saying - I'm sure now the school has a better way to control not only exits from the school but awareness of where each child is in general, so that a missing one sparks an alert a lot sooner.

 

[PortlandMama]

Yes, what you said could have happened, but if Terri was required to sign Kyron out in the office, the roll would have come back to the office showing Kyron absent, but never checked out in the front office. The roll usually comes back to the office in the first hour. If there is a discrepancy, the office will call home just to check.

I agree. And protocol could have been even tighter than that. At my child's school, once the child is signed in for the day by the teacher (which at Skyline I think should have happened at the usual hour, whether parents were around for a special event or not), even a parent cannot remove the child from the school without filling out a form at the office in duplicate (also showing ID even if the parent is well known to the office staff), leaving one copy in the office and taking the other official copy back to the teacher. No form to hand to the teacher, no child. It's not exactly complicated or time-consuming, and it applies even if you only need to pick up your kid 5 minutes early. In Kyron's case, if this had been the protocol, it would not have made any difference what the teacher assumed happened with a doctor's appointment and Terri. Next steps would HAVE to have been taken to find out where he was. MOO

 

[Jo in Calif]

I agree. And protocol could have been even tighter than that. At my child's school, once the child is signed in for the day by the teacher (which at Skyline I think should have happened at the usual hour, whether parents were around for a special event or not), even a parent cannot remove the child from the school without filling out a form at the office in duplicate (also showing ID even if the parent is well known to the office staff), leaving one copy in the office and taking the other official copy back to the teacher. No form to hand to the teacher, no child. It's not exactly complicated or time-consuming, and it applies even if you only need to pick up your kid 5 minutes early. In Kyron's case, if this had been the protocol, it would not have made any difference what the teacher assumed happened with a doctor's appointment and Terri. Next steps would HAVE to have been taken to find out where he was. MOO

IMO It was the policy of the school, that if a parent were taking a child out of class, that they had to go to the office to sign them out of school.
Terri, IMO, knew this policy, but doing, IMO, what Terri had in mind for Kyron, she wasn't about to go to the office to sign him out.

 

[PortlandMama]

IMO It was the policy of the school, that if a parent were taking a child out of class, that they had to go to the office to sign them out of school.
Terri, IMO, knew this policy, but doing, IMO, what Terri had in mind for Kyron, she wasn't about to go to the office to sign him out.

That's why the protocol I described is far preferable.

 

[gwenabob]

That's why the protocol I described is far preferable.

I don't understand how any of this protocol would have prevented Terri from taking Kyron. All she had to do is walk out the door with him.

 

[ami]

I don't understand how any of this protocol would have prevented Terri from taking Kyron. All she had to do is walk out the door with him.

Exactly. The school could be more aware of which children are where, and they could figure out perhaps a few hours earlier that a child's parent maybe didn't follow protocol in excusing the child for a doctor's appointment, and they could make a call to that parent to ask if this was the case --- but the child is still gone by then.

In a parental abduction, in that case all Terri would have to do is hang with him at the science fair, then walk him straight out a door and when the school called later tell them that she did not leave with him, the appt she referred to was next friday, and where the hell is her son? etc.