GUILTY UT - Brian Mitchell & Wanda Barzee for kidnapping, Salt Lake City, 5 June 2002

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Bobbisangel said:
I believe that Mr or Mrs Smart hired him to help with some roofing or something like that. They didn't know him. Just thought he could use some money and so they put him to work. Can't even rememer how they came across him. It is a huge mistake to bring people into your home around your children when you know nothing about them. Evidenally he had been inside the house too as he knew which bedroom Elizabeth was sleeping in. It would have made more sense to me if he had taken the younger girl instead of a big 14 yr old girl. Does anyone remember if he had a weapon that he threatened her with to get her to go with him?
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I think he took her because he believed she was "old enough" to be his second wife. GAG!!!! I would have DIED if that greasy yulky old thing had touched me!~:eek:
 
SeekingJana said:
Pedinurse, your rationale is valid. Moab keeps trying to engage me in argument, but I will never respond.
I appreciate what you have rebutted. :)
Maria
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I hardly think responding to a post is trying to engage you in an argument! Did you post what you did not expecting replies? :waitasec:
 
pedinurse said:
Moab - i think the question is more "how likely is it that a girl who was with indigents for 9 months, with no consistent means of transportation (lots of walking) who hiked into the mountains - not to mention that they had no consistent food sources or income - have fed all three of them so well that Elizabeth became plump, not thin or stayed the same."

I'm not saying it can't happen... I'm just saying it is WOULD be surprising. You know what i mean? she was dependent on them for everything - food, etc. Indigents / homeless are not known for being able to access food easily, even though there may be homeless shelters with soup kitchens nearby. I don't usually bring up the nursing thing, but I will tell you that one of the first things you worry about, once you get a patient stabilized - in the hospital (if they are homeless, that is) is NUTRITIONAL STATUS. Because it can effect healing, etc. We assess it for everyone, but homeless is a big read flag to investigate further.
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I totally understand your rationale, and appreciate your response, however there is the other side to the story as well, and that is too few "good" calories places the body in starvation mode/efficiency mode, and one will retain weight and lose muscle. It's because if you take in too few calories, the body goes into efficiency mode and stores fat and runs on as few calories as possible, thus burning fewer calories for each activity. Does that make sense? Furthermore, if you don't have enough calories for your body to work from, it will start storing fat; because you have slowed your metabolism. If you will notice, Barzee had a lot of weight on her as well. She has since slimmed down now that she is getting three meals a day. Mitchell has always been very slight and wiry in stature.


There were weeks at a time where they were not traveling anywhere, there was limited exercise, if any at all, and you are correct in mentioning the homeless shelters, however, they serve mostly starch because it is cheap and goes a long way in serving the masses, and also cheap fast food isn't very nutritional. Mitchell made quite a bit of money in SLC when he was panhandling, but to feed all three once a day does not take that much money if we remember they didn't eat like we eat everyday - and they didn't always eat every day.



Again, thanks for the response.

 
Littledeer said:
Yep, it's me again! :eek:

I thought this was a good read in recapping Elizabeth Smart's kidnapping from start to finish. This might have already been posted, but maybe some posters haven't read it.

Hope you all don't mind that I put it here.

www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/sexual_assault/elizabeth_smart/1_index.html
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Thanks for posting that link again, two different sections of it were posted the other day, but there seems to be a problem with facts on the case being accepted. :bang:
 
Moab said:
I totally understand your rationale, and appreciate your response, however there is the other side to the story as well, and that is too few "good" calories places the body in starvation mode/efficiency mode, and one will retain weight and lose muscle. It's because if you take in too few calories, the body goes into efficiency mode and stores fat and runs on as few calories as possible, thus burning fewer calories for each activity. Does that make sense? Furthermore, if you don't have enough calories for your body to work from, it will start storing fat; because you have slowed your metabolism. If you will notice, Barzee had a lot of weight on her as well. She has since slimmed down now that she is getting three meals a day. Mitchell has always been very slight and wiry in stature.


There were weeks at a time where they were not traveling anywhere, there was limited exercise, if any at all, and you are correct in mentioning the homeless shelters, however, they serve mostly starch because it is cheap and goes a long way in serving the masses, and also cheap fast food isn't very nutritional. Mitchell made quite a bit of money in SLC when he was panhandling, but to feed all three once a day does not take that much money if we remember they didn't eat like we eat everyday - and they didn't always eat every day.



Again, thanks for the response.
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If this where true, no one would die of starvation. You can't store extra fat, without extra calories.

Without adequate calories, your body will go into starvation mode and burn less fat, but it can't make more fat when you are in a time of famine, there is noting to make it from...:rolleyes:

Trust me, from an experienced dieter. You can not gain weight from eating to few calories. You can maintain your weight, and not loose sometimes, but your body can not gain weight from air.
 
iNTERESTEDWOMAN said:
If this where true, no one would die of starvation. You can't store extra fat, without extra calories.

Without adequate calories, your body will go into starvation mode and burn less fat, but it can't make more fat when you are in a time of famine, there is noting to make it from...:rolleyes:

Trust me, from an experienced dieter. You can not gain weight from eating to few calories. You can maintain your weight, and not loose sometimes, but your body can not gain weight from air.
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My response was poorly written to convey what I was attempting to so, I will try to come back later and to do better.
 
I was shocked when they found her. It was indeed a miracle.

The rest of this garbage is just that, garbage.

This little girl was kidnapped, raped and lived a lifestyle (homeless, begging) that she was not accustomed to. She survived all the abuse only to be told by some people that she "act weird" or "doesn't seem right"....

DUH!

She is different. She is a survivor.

Leave the girl alone.
 
CarpeDiem said:
Moab was right. A lot of links to choose from:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=if+you+take+in+too+few+calories%2C+the+body+goes+into+efficiency+mode+and+stores+fat+&btnG=Search
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Thank you for the link.

I was going to go back and try to rephrase what I had said before, but it doesn't make much difference, I guess. One has only to realize that eating certain foods like bread and starches with no exercise will change your weight the same way it will change your percent of body fat and muscle mass loss, however Elizabeth was not fat when she returned.

The fact is that she really didn't gain a lot of weight, but her face matured and filled out during that time and she gained almost an inch in height. The original pictures taken in the driveway of her home showed a sunburned face, (and that did make it look like her face was heavier), but her face structure is the same today as it was then, minus the sunburn. There is also a difference in appearance when someone has their hair pulled back as opposed to not. The photo taken of her leaving the police station shows a sideways view of her and it is clear from that she isn't fat. That is just how rumors and innuendo get started...there was a lot of speculation and misinformation, and I hate to see victims or their families picked apart by speculation.

Some posters are going to take the conspiracy theory to their grave with them, and no one will change that in their minds, nor was that my intent. I don't have a dog in this fight other than crimes against children.
 
I think that people in general are not comfortable with the whole concept of the Stockholm Syndrome. The idea that a victim can go willingly with a kidnapper or will not try to escape once in captivity, goes against the entire grain of thought a normal, non threatened observer might have. It's a lot easier to imagine strange and completely irrational scenarios, such as the idea that ES was pregnant and hidden (by her parents) with two nutjobs. The alternative--that under the threat of violence you, I and anyone else are likely to go along meekly with whatever torture a kidnapper metes out, is just too difficult for us to bear. Maybe we should call it the O'Reilly Syndrome, after Bill O'Reilly who broadcasted such unkind things about poor Shawn Hornbeck.
 
Moab said:
CarpeDiem said:
Moab was right. A lot of links to choose from:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=if+you+take+in+too+few+calories%2C+the+body+goes+into+efficiency+mode+and+stores+fat+&btnG=Search
Click to expand...
Thank you for the link.

I was going to go back and try to rephrase what I had said before, but it doesn't make much difference, I guess. One has only to realize that eating certain foods like bread and starches with no exercise will change your weight the same way it will change your percent of body fat and muscle mass loss, however Elizabeth was not fat when she returned.

The fact is that she really didn't gain a lot of weight, but her face matured and filled out during that time and she gained almost an inch in height. The original pictures taken in the driveway of her home showed a sunburned face, (and that did make it look like her face was heavier), but her face structure is the same today as it was then, minus the sunburn. There is also a difference in appearance when someone has their hair pulled back as opposed to not. The photo taken of her leaving the police station shows a sideways view of her and it is clear from that she isn't fat. That is just how rumors and innuendo get started...there was a lot of speculation and misinformation, and I hate to see victims or their families picked apart by speculation.

Some posters are going to take the conspiracy theory to their grave with them, and no one will change that in their minds, nor was that my intent. I don't have a dog in this fight other than crimes against children.
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No fight from any of you fine ladies - just another opportunity to acknowledge Elizabeth's story. I am happy to see you mingling over here and soon everyone will enjoy you and your big passionate heart as much as I do!
 
Moab said:
Hi Mouse!
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You found my hiding spot! Since we lost Patsy, I have ventured out in the world, but so far, out of these thousands of other cases.....no one can replace her - Thank God! :innocent:
 
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