UT - Family of 8 found dead in home by gunshot in Enoch, Jan 2023

[DFWNF]

This sounds like certain religious faith bashing. I am sure most of us can recall horrific crimes committed by folks from from ALL or no religions. Very sad. Goodnight all.

 

[Mormon Attorney]

This sounds like certain religious faith bashing. I am sure most of us can recall horrific crimes committed by folks from from ALL or no religions. Very sad. Goodnight all.

Let me chime in here. I am a female attorney who is also LDS. I adopted a child who had been severely abused. After realizing what kids go through that have had so much trauma, I gave up my legal career to fight for foster children and children with special needs. I have spoken at numerous conferences to educate on trauma and abuse and healing. My heart is 100% with abuse victims. Having said that, let me clarify a few things.

1. The appropriate term is LDS or the full name of the church. "Mormon" is not used any more. (I do realize the irony of my name here. It was created years ago and I can't change it.)

2. Abuse happens anywhere an abuser can gain control or access to potential victims. It happens among rich and poor, all nationalities, all religions, all education levels, all genders and on and on. The common denominator is an immature individual who seeks control over the vulnerable. This exists everywhere, including, but, not limited to, the LDS church and every other entity or culture or situation where an abuser can control and dominate.

3. Like many faiths, the LDS church accepts all types of people. Abuse is often very covert and difficult to detect. Victims often protect the abuser because of a trauma bond or other dynamic. I can't tell you how many families I have worked with of all types where the victims are extremely loyal to the abuser. This makes gathering information and reporting very difficult.

4. In the LDS church, abuse is reason for excommunication. However, refer to the above regarding the huge reluctance of victims to turn on the perpetrator, both for safety reasons and loyalty.

5. I would hope this story, rather than condemning an entire faith, would raise awareness of abuse. Like I said, I cannot tell you all the different variations of abuse I have seen. Abuse is everywhere. It is very hard to detect because families often put on a front to protect the family dynamic. In addition, the victims know the power of the abuser. To leave is to risk death. This case illustrates that.

6. Nothing I am saying here is met to condemn victims.I love every family I have worked with. I share this just to share that abuse dynamics are very complicated in that the victims learn not to turn on the perpetrator and hide what is happening. This is so understandable because they know what can happen if they turn on the abuser. They are forced to walk on eggshells to stay safe and alive.

I hope this helps clarify some things. I am open to any questions. My heart breaks for this family and their community. There is no justification for abuse - ever. But it is often very difficult for victims to get help or to leave. This case should awake everyone to the fact that abuse can happen anywhere regardless of culture, religion, career, gender, sexual orientation. And it is everywhere.

 

[Snoopster]

Let me chime in here. I am a female attorney who is also LDS. I adopted a child who had been severely abused. After realizing what kids go through that have had so much trauma, I gave up my legal career to fight for foster children and children with special needs. I have spoken at numerous conferences to educate on trauma and abuse and healing. My heart is 100% with abuse victims. Having said that, let me clarify a few things.

1. The appropriate term is LDS or the full name of the church. "Mormon" is not used any more. (I do realize the irony of my name here. It was created years ago and I can't change it.)

2. Abuse happens anywhere an abuser can gain control or access to potential victims. It happens among rich and poor, all nationalities, all religions, all education levels, all genders and on and on. The common denominator is an immature individual who seeks control over the vulnerable. This exists everywhere, including, but, not limited to, the LDS church and every other entity or culture or situation where an abuser can control and dominate.

3. Like many faiths, the LDS church accepts all types of people. Abuse is often very covert and difficult to detect. Victims often protect the abuser because of a trauma bond or other dynamic. I can't tell you how many families I have worked with of all types where the victims are extremely loyal to the abuser. This makes gathering information and reporting very difficult.

4. In the LDS church, abuse is reason for excommunication. However, refer to the above regarding the huge reluctance of victims to turn on the perpetrator, both for safety reasons and loyalty.

5. I would hope this story, rather than condemning an entire faith, would raise awareness of abuse. Like I said, I cannot tell you all the different variations of abuse I have seen. Abuse is everywhere. It is very hard to detect because families often put on a front to protect the family dynamic. In addition, the victims know the power of the abuser. To leave is to risk death. This case illustrates that.

6. Nothing I am saying here is met to condemn victims.I love every family I have worked with. I share this just to share that abuse dynamics are very complicated in that the victims learn not to turn on the perpetrator and hide what is happening. This is so understandable because they know what can happen if they turn on the abuser. They are forced to walk on eggshells to stay safe and alive.

I hope this helps clarify some things. I am open to any questions. My heart breaks for this family and their community. There is no justification for abuse - ever. But it is often very difficult for victims to get help or to leave. This case should awake everyone to the fact that abuse can happen anywhere regardless of culture, religion, career, gender, sexual orientation. And it is everywhere.

Thank you for this excellent post.

 

[branmuffin]

I'm stumbling here. We have 7 people murdered by a family member. Yet 4 young adults murdered by a stranger in Idaho capture our attention to many hundreds of magnitudes in comparison. I'm not saying it shouldn't (I am devastated by those senseless, vicious murders), but we write off domestic violence like it's nothing. I guess that's because we believe that domestic violence can't happen to us if we have 'good lives' yet stranger violence COULD happen to us so it's more random and shocking.

My point is that every life lost to violence matters equally. But we don't treat them as such.
(And don't get me going on indigenous lives!!! or lives of people who live high risk lifestyles!)

Thank you for reading my rant. I just needed to get that out of my system. My apologies.

I agree. I think part of the issue is how those four university students were killed. If they'd been shot, it would have been in and out of the news because there's always another mass shooting to replace it within days. People have become jaded or desensitized by gun violence. It shouldn't matter whether children die at the hands of a lone gunman out to kill anyone or children who die at the hands of a caregiver who is supposed to protect and save them.

Mass Shootings in 2024 | Gun Violence Archive

Gun Violence Archive (GVA) is a not for profit corporation formed in 2013 to provide free online public access to accurate information about gun-related violence in the United States. GVA will collect and check for accuracy, comprehensive information about gun-related violence in the U.S. and...

www.gunviolencearchive.org

Mass Murders in 2022 | Gun Violence Archive

Gun Violence Archive (GVA) is a not for profit corporation formed in 2013 to provide free online public access to accurate information about gun-related violence in the United States. GVA will collect and check for accuracy, comprehensive information about gun-related violence in the U.S. and...

www.gunviolencearchive.org

Mass Shootings in 2022 | Gun Violence Archive

Gun Violence Archive (GVA) is a not for profit corporation formed in 2013 to provide free online public access to accurate information about gun-related violence in the United States. GVA will collect and check for accuracy, comprehensive information about gun-related violence in the U.S. and...

www.gunviolencearchive.org

Over a hundred mass shootings have occurred in the US since November 12 2022. Eighty four people have died in those shootings since November 12 with many more who survived their injuries. Some try to rationalize that many shooting deaths are related to gangs or other criminal elements but facts don't lie.

The reality is that more mass shooting are related to DV. And the stats show that after a mass shooting event only 1 in 6 survive a DV-based mass shooting whereas 1 in 3 people survive a mass shooting event that isn't DV related. Link:

Study: Two-Thirds of Mass Shootings Linked to Domestic Violence - The Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence

More than two-thirds of mass shootings are domestic violence incidents or are perpetrated by shooters with a history of domestic violence, according to one of the first peer-reviewed research papers exploring the links between domestic violence (DV) and mass shootings. The paper also finds that...

efsgv.org

I will never understand the mind of a human who annihilates their own family. It's animal behavior. Lions, horses and primates kill the young of their competitors to stake claim to the females.

 

[airportwoman]

This sounds like certain religious faith bashing. I am sure most of us can recall horrific crimes committed by folks from from ALL or no religions. Very sad. Goodnight all.

I didn't view it as religion bashing. It's people criticizing THAT member of a religion.

 

[airportwoman]

The exact same time Gabby Petito and Brian Laundrie were in Moab being questioned by police over a DV incident, a married lesbian couple were shot to death in their tent at a campsite near Moab in broad daylight. As the US subsequently turned itself inside out trying to find Gabby, with breathless coverage all over MSM, this case of two murdered women was largely ignored and received only cursory, very local coverage.

It's blond girl syndrome -- if a victim is young, blond, attractive and female, MSM will fall all over themselves with nation wide coverage. The three young women murdered in Moscow, ID certainly fit this description.

Kudos to police who worked incredibly hard to identify the perps in Moab, UT and Moscow, ID.

One other thing. Gabby and Brian were becoming semi-public figures because they had a very popular YouTube channel.

 

[cvaldez1975]

Utah father took guns from home before killing 7, leaving family 'vulnerable,' relative says

The Utah father who shot and killed his family removed weapons from the home days before the killings, leaving them vulnerable because they were trained in gun safety, a relative says.

www.ksl.com

Southern Utah shooting: 'No one ever thought this would happen'

Friends and family talked about the family of Tausha and Michael Haight and the last time they saw them before police say Michael Haight shot and killed them all before killing himself.

www.ksl.com

It’s weird the wife’s family cautioned not to use the story as a political narrative then proceeds to push a political narrative.

 

[Lwieckowicz]

One other thing. Gabby and Brian were becoming semi-public figures because they had a very popular YouTube channel.

In my opinion, every group or religion has its extremists and those are who are being scrutinized typically, I felt that was the case here MOO

 

[HMSHood]

I'm stumbling here. We have 7 people murdered by a family member. Yet 4 young adults murdered by a stranger in Idaho capture our attention to many hundreds of magnitudes in comparison. I'm not saying it shouldn't (I am devastated by those senseless, vicious murders), but we write off domestic violence like it's nothing. I guess that's because we believe that domestic violence can't happen to us if we have 'good lives' yet stranger violence COULD happen to us so it's more random and shocking.

My point is that every life lost to violence matters equally. But we don't treat them as such.
(And don't get me going on indigenous lives!!! or lives of people who live high risk lifestyles!)

Thank you for reading my rant. I just needed to get that out of my system. My apologies.

I understand your sentiment. The University Of Idaho murders got more attention because a suspect was not arrested or died at the scene or at another location as it has happened with other mass murder. Most mass murderers usually commit suicide or get killed by someone else like police (eg. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza, Elliot Rodger, and Salvador Ramos). Some do get arrested (eg. James Holmes, Nikolas Cruz, Ronald Gene Simmons, and Jared Loughner). I think another reason it got attention because it happened near a college campus. Anything mass killing on or near a college or school campus gets more media attention.

 

[Soulmagent]

It’s weird the wife’s family cautioned not to use the story as a political narrative then proceeds to push a political narrative.

I think could be because it is not a political thing to them but they are aware of the gun debate issues. Protecting ones self and their family ,is not about politics for them. It is clear she felt the need to share information about the removal of her protection from the home.

 

[branmuffin]

I understand your sentiment. The University Of Idaho murders got more attention because a suspect was not arrested or died at the scene or at another location as it has happened with other mass murder. Most mass murderers usually commit suicide or get killed by someone else like police (eg. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza, Elliot Rodger, and Salvador Ramos). Some do get arrested (eg. James Holmes, Nikolas Cruz, Ronald Gene Simmons, and Jared Loughner). I think another reason it got attention because it happened near a college campus. Anything mass killing on or near a college or school campus gets more media attention.

Double digits of people are murdered every month in the US and that's only the mass shootings. Anything less than four dead and you don't hear about it, unless the death is lurid and the deceased female. Many of them do not get solved in the same time frame as the Idaho murders. They don't get the airplay or the general public following with an insatiable appetite for news. The Idaho murders got attention because the victims were white, pretty and young. A young guy murdered four people in Aurora Co in October and was apprehended in Mexico in December. He wasn't a blip on the screen except for local news. Young guy, four people dead. Same situation, zero coverage. Oh, all the victims were Hispanic. That situation is repeated many times over.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I think could be because it is not a political thing to them but they are aware of the gun debate issues. Protecting ones self and their family ,is not about politics for them. It is clear she felt the need to share information about the removal of her protection from the home.

I get it but it was paragraphs worth.

 

[Snoopster]

Absolutely. As well there were small children in the home and the firearms would have needed to have been locked up and likely could not have been retrieved in time.
I went through something similar myself and I firmly believe that if a gun was available, my own - as many people urged me to have, or the perpetrator’s, both of us and possibly the children in the vicinity would have died at the perpetrator’s hand. The perpetrator even told me that…

I'm so sorry that you went through that experience. <hugs>

 

[CocoChanel]

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[airportwoman]

Double digits of people are murdered every month in the US and that's only the mass shootings. Anything less than four dead and you don't hear about it, unless the death is lurid and the deceased female. Many of them do not get solved in the same time frame as the Idaho murders. They don't get the airplay or the general public following with an insatiable appetite for news. The Idaho murders got attention because the victims were white, pretty and young. A young guy murdered four people in Aurora Co in October and was apprehended in Mexico in December. He wasn't a blip on the screen except for local news. Young guy, four people dead. Same situation, zero coverage. Oh, all the victims were Hispanic. That situation is repeated many times over.

But with the Aurora murders, did the people all know each other or were related?

 

[airportwoman]

Any more updates on a possible motive?

 

[Marysmith]

But with the Aurora murders, did the people all know each other or were related?

Yes, they were family members. They were Hispanic.

 

[Marysmith]

Any more updates on a possible motive?

Do we know why he lost his job?

 

[branmuffin]

But with the Aurora murders, did the people all know each other or were related?

Yes, three of the victims were relatives of the killer's ex. One of the victims was the twin sister of his ex. The fourth individual lived in a trailer on the property and came out to see what the commotion was. He may not have known the last victim.

 

[Erutan]

Any more updates on a possible motive?

From what information that's in msm, it sounded like his wife was planning to leave him ?
Maybe added stress if her mother --his mother-in-law- was supportive of her daughter ?
If the house was owned by the wife or her mom, maybe he would've had to move out after the divorce was finalized ?
Thinking out loud here.
All was not well at that home.
M00.

Do we know why he lost his job?

Good question.