Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #18 *ARREST*

[Roadette]

I confess that I’d also assumed that her roommates were female. Knowing that they’re male changes my perspective a little bit. They might well be the nicest guys in the world, and probably are, but somehow I can visualize the apartment dynamics being such that the offer of a quiet peaceful room might be very attractive.

I had male roommates in my early 20s. Frankly, they were fine. I think they were even on better behavior subconsciously when I was around. For instance, our condo was impeccably tidy. Once I went on a vacation and came back to a pigsty.

Everyone was always respectful, etc. I doubt they wanted to piss of a quiet person who helped with the rent regardless of my gender.

Edited to add: I guess we also don’t know if the two guys were a couple?

 

[Roadette]

I believe AA likely entered USA legally with F1 Student Visa which was near expiration if not expired, and sought to extend his status and obtain green card by marrying a US citizen.

To avoid scam marriages (just for green card/resident status), I believe foreigner marriages have to last a certain period of time before status approved and/or interview granted.

I think in 2012, AA believed his Texas marriage might be questionable (for his legal status), and was therefore seeking a new wife.

I believe AA was deemed a permanent resident at time of his arrest.

MOO

Adjusting Status From F-1 Visa After Marrying a U.S. Citizen

This is 100% consistent with my understanding of events.

 

[SoCalGirl]

So, we know for sure that his wife was an American citizen? Was she also from Nigeria? I thought they were introduced by mutual family friends.

 

[Seattle1]

So, we know for sure that his wife was an American citizen? Was she also from Nigeria? I thought they were introduced by mutual family friends.

I always assumed wife was American born.
Wife's godmother allegedly made the introduction.

 

[al66pine]

I don't think it would be obvious which company was picking her up. Most drivers picking up at SLC drive for both Lyft and Uber and have stickers in their windows for both. So this had to be something either from her parents saying she was taking a Lyft or her parents singing on the credit card. Alternatively, the SLC PD could simply have contacted Uber and Lyft to see if either of them picked her up and they cooperated because of recent past publicity

LE learns ML Used Lyft or Uber, & Destination
Knowing ML's flight landing time, LE could use that time to start checking airport security vids. Likely that, in reviewing surv. vid, LE 'followed' ML past the luggage claim, outside to taxi/Uber/Lyft stand/area, and identified vehicle w license plate she got in. Imo, does not matter whether LE could ID vehicle or driver as Lyft or Uber or other.

Based on plate info, LE could contact driver directly (presumably car owner) & immediately. Not saying this is how it happened, just a possibility.
At that early point, to learn ML's destination, LE did not have to ---
1. contact Lyft or Uber local ofc or corporate HQ to get info to ID driver,
2. rely on credit card data from parents, or
3. rely on info from MLs text to parents, which may/may not have ID'ed Lyft or Uber.
4. contacted Uber &Lyft for info about ML's ride.

But as you say, LE might have gotten info by # 2, 3, or 4.
All Jmo.

 

[LadyL]

Possible perhaps a place without roommates to study for her test or just veg a few days and mourn her Grandmothers passing.

she had a cat to get home to
I donèt think she was planning on anything longer than one night

 

[Mormon Attorney]

Just a few thoughts that I keep mulling over in reading the discussions.

1. She was young, very young. Whatever her history or experiences, she was still a young college student.

2. He was likely planning this for months. I look back to the comments to the man he wanted to build his secret room. He wanted it for his "Mormon girlfriend." I could be wrong but he may have been planning this then.

3. Psychopaths are very convincing and adept at grooming their victims. When you think of it as "that night" it may seem strange that she met him at 3 am at the park. Many are guessing at what draw there was. But, again, psychopaths can groom for months. It could have been anything but I am convinced he knew exactly what was needed to get her there when he needed her there.

It is predator and prey in the psychopath world. ML did not live in that world. She was real, beautiful and trusting. If she had never crossed a psychopath before, she would have absolutely no clue how evil one could be. In contrast, a psychopath or predatory personality, can read and groom a victim almost perfectly. It is an absolutely unfair fight, particularly with her youth.

Psychopaths, narcissists, predators,. whatever you call it....can be very adept at appearing to have consciences when they dont. Someone as trusting as young as ML would have a very difficult time against someone like that.

Most individuals who have had a narcissist cross their path are very weary and vigilant for signs they never saw before. But, before having that experience, most people, especially so young, are no match for that type of cunning and evil.

Just some general thoughts. I think he had a predatory ability to read his intended victims well and those he picked were likely picked because of their traits such as compassion or kindness that could be used against them.

MOO

<modsnip - soliciting private message, please contact a mod instead>

 

[10ofRods]

I'm going to tiptoe in and say something that's MOO. But...my background includes mental health forensics (not a shrink, but with experience in diagnostics).

SO. There are personalities (Cluster B) that quickly suss out how to manipulate others. They have an eerie ability to try different strategies (so, they know to act like they need help if and only if the other person is a caregiver). There's a lot written on this. Is a person ambitious/seeking upward mobility? They quickly have an elaborate persona that will facilitate that. Is the person a loner/introspective? They have a quiet place they know about or can offer.

IOW, it's not what KL thought or did, it's the manipulative ability of the suspect. I'm sure the people currently jailing him are aware of this. They are usually very charming and friendly...

 

[Rhenish]

Just a few thoughts that I keep mulling over in reading the discussions.

1. She was young, very young. Whatever her history or experiences, she was still a young college student.

2. He was likely planning this for months. I look back to the comments to the man he wanted to build his secret room. He wanted it for his "Mormon girlfriend." I could be wrong but he may have been planning this then.

3. Psychopaths are very convincing and adept at grooming their victims. When you think of it as "that night" it may seem strange that she met him at 3 am at the park. Many are guessing at what draw there was. But, again, psychopaths can groom for months. It could have been anything but I am convinced he knew exactly what was needed to get her there when he needed her there.

It is predator and prey in the psychopath world. ML did not live in that world. She was real, beautiful and trusting. If she had never crossed a psychopath before, she would have absolutely no clue how evil one could be. In contrast, a psychopath or predatory personality, can read and groom a victim almost perfectly. It is an absolutely unfair fight, particularly with her youth.

Psychopaths, narcissists, predators,. whatever you call it....can be very adept at appearing to have consciences when they dont. Someone as trusting as young as ML would have a very difficult time against someone like that.

Most individuals who have had a narcissist cross their path are very weary and vigilant for signs they never saw before. But, before having that experience, most people, especially so young, are no match for that type of cunning and evil.

Just some general thoughts. I think he had a predatory ability to read his intended victims well and those he picked were likely picked because of their traits such as compassion or kindness that could be used against them.

MOO

Also can someone message me about how to change my name? It was relevant in the Jodi Arias discussion but not in others. Thanks!

LOVE this post. I agree.

 

[SandSage]

LOVE this post. I agree.

Me too.

 

[Zella]

Just a few thoughts that I keep mulling over in reading the discussions.

1. She was young, very young. Whatever her history or experiences, she was still a young college student.

2. He was likely planning this for months. I look back to the comments to the man he wanted to build his secret room. He wanted it for his "Mormon girlfriend." I could be wrong but he may have been planning this then.

3. Psychopaths are very convincing and adept at grooming their victims. When you think of it as "that night" it may seem strange that she met him at 3 am at the park. Many are guessing at what draw there was. But, again, psychopaths can groom for months. It could have been anything but I am convinced he knew exactly what was needed to get her there when he needed her there.

It is predator and prey in the psychopath world. ML did not live in that world. She was real, beautiful and trusting. If she had never crossed a psychopath before, she would have absolutely no clue how evil one could be. In contrast, a psychopath or predatory personality, can read and groom a victim almost perfectly. It is an absolutely unfair fight, particularly with her youth.

Psychopaths, narcissists, predators,. whatever you call it....can be very adept at appearing to have consciences when they dont. Someone as trusting as young as ML would have a very difficult time against someone like that.

Most individuals who have had a narcissist cross their path are very weary and vigilant for signs they never saw before. But, before having that experience, most people, especially so young, are no match for that type of cunning and evil.

Just some general thoughts. I think he had a predatory ability to read his intended victims well and those he picked were likely picked because of their traits such as compassion or kindness that could be used against them.

MOO

Also can someone message me about how to change my name? It was relevant in the Jodi Arias discussion but not in others. Thanks!

I agree with everything you said about psychopaths. In regard to ML being young, I think it's probably true that she'd never met anyone as predatory as AA, but I have met a lot more sheltered young woman than her. She had lived away from home, been in college for several years, worked, had relationships, and was living off-campus rather than in a dorm. Compared to a college freshmen who has never spent a night away from home or had to fend for themselves, she did have some life experience.

 

[Zella]

I'm going to tiptoe in and say something that's MOO. But...my background includes mental health forensics (not a shrink, but with experience in diagnostics).

SO. There are personalities (Cluster B) that quickly suss out how to manipulate others. They have an eerie ability to try different strategies (so, they know to act like they need help if and only if the other person is a caregiver). There's a lot written on this. Is a person ambitious/seeking upward mobility? They quickly have an elaborate persona that will facilitate that. Is the person a loner/introspective? They have a quiet place they know about or can offer.

IOW, it's not what KL thought or did, it's the manipulative ability of the suspect. I'm sure the people currently jailing him are aware of this. They are usually very charming and friendly...

This is excellent! Just wanted to say I've really enjoyed reading your thoughts on this case in general.

One thing I will add--hopefully not considered off-topic. I've read a lot about cult leaders in my spare time just as an armchair interest, particularly Manson and Jones. One thing that pops up quite a bit is what you have described--this ability to instantly read someone, know what they are seeking in life, and pretend to offer it. On a similar note, I have also noticed that they also just as quickly suss out who is skeptical, and they actively push them away.

This is something I have also encountered in my life in dealing with very manipulative people. They already know it's not going to work on you and want you out of the picture, especially when there are other people in the picture that they want to retain control over.

Based on the descriptions of AA's outbursts when something doesn't go his way and his apparent ability to charm people at least temporarily, I wonder if he also had a bit of a knack for reading when someone wasn't buying what he was selling and shoving them along their way, so he could move on to a more receptive, sympathetic target.

 

[Mormon Attorney]

I agree with everything you said about psychopaths. In regard to ML being young, I think it's probably true that she'd never met anyone as predatory as AA, but I have met a lot more sheltered young woman than her. She had lived away from home, been in college for several years, worked, had relationships, and was living off-campus rather than in a dorm. Compared to a college freshmen who has never spent a night away from home or had to fend for themselves, she did have some life experience.

I totally agree that she was very competent at handling college life, etc. From my experience, dealing with a predatory personality is an experience not many college students have had yet. That was more the experience I was talking about. But, no doubt, you are right, she was definitely otherwise very capable. Predators are very cunning and study their intended victims so carefully that, unless you know what you are dealing with, it is way too easy to get trapped in a very bad situation.

 

[Zella]

I totally agree that she was very competent at handling college life, etc. From my experience, dealing with a predatory personality is an experience not many college students have had yet. That was more the experience I was talking about.

SBM

That makes sense--thanks for clarifying! I agree with you!

 

[acutename]

Why would you assume he didn't know about the cameras. I think he probably DID know about the "dummy" cameras and that's another reason why he chose Hatch Park

once there are cameras, I do not think anyone, except maybe local LE, ever really knows if they are fixed, broken, monitored, etc. at any given time.

 

[jillycat]

There are victims of all ages and life experiences who never saw it coming. Developmental and practical life experience, even if you account for some out of the norm experiences here and there, will not make you savvy to a psychopathic predator. They simply operate on a system of rules and desired goal outcomes that the rest of us don't, so they've already figured out how to predict and overcome typical behavior and thinking in the social order. They've already learned to read and assess the behavior of prey and potential for successful 'capture', and they know what's going on in the world around their target. They will even take risks that no one else would, because they know how much time they need, what resistance they're likely to encounter, and what it will take to separate their victim from help. They are willing to be bold and they know that boldness and speed even in the presence of witnesses (grabbing victims in broad daylight right in front of their own home for example) counters other risks and overwhelms both victim and witness. Plus, they don't care.

These are individuals who have a handbook we haven't even read.

 

[Mormon Attorney]

There are victims of all ages and life experiences who never saw it coming. Developmental and practical life experience, even if you account for some out of the norm experiences here and there, will not make you savvy to a psychopathic predator. They simply operate on a system of rules and desired goal outcomes that the rest of us don't, so they've already figured out how to predict and overcome typical behavior and thinking in the social order. They've already learned to read and assess the behavior of prey and potential for successful 'capture', and they know what's going on in the world around their target. They will even take risks that no one else would, because they know how much time they need, what resistance they're likely to encounter, and what it will take to separate their victim from help. They are willing to be bold and they know that boldness and speed even in the presence of witnesses (grabbing victims in broad daylight right in front of their own home for example) counters other risks and overwhelms both victim and witness. Plus, they don't care.

These are individuals who have a handbook we haven't even read.

Excellent way to put it. Until you have had an experience with one, you cannot even fathom that the "act" you see is unreal because it is so perfectly acted. ML may have been very independent and was capable in many ways but I do not believe she could even begin to contemplate who he really was. Not only are they extremely adept at reading the needs of others, their "act" is often flawless.

If she knew what we know now, of course she would have gotten rid of him immediately. However, we have to remember, based on his history, he was very predatory and likely had prepared to present as whatever he felt would achieve his goal.

She was a beautiful young woman, experimenting with life and finding herself. She was robbed of that opportunity by a skilled predator. Any person who has been on the other end of one understands the magnitude of harm that a predatory personality can do without any inkling on the part of the victim. These predators have no rules that apply to them in their minds.

 

[iamcurious9]

Just a few thoughts that I keep mulling over in reading the discussions.

1. She was young, very young. Whatever her history or experiences, she was still a young college student.

2. He was likely planning this for months. I look back to the comments to the man he wanted to build his secret room. He wanted it for his "Mormon girlfriend." I could be wrong but he may have been planning this then.

3. Psychopaths are very convincing and adept at grooming their victims. When you think of it as "that night" it may seem strange that she met him at 3 am at the park. Many are guessing at what draw there was. But, again, psychopaths can groom for months. It could have been anything but I am convinced he knew exactly what was needed to get her there when he needed her there.

It is predator and prey in the psychopath world. ML did not live in that world. She was real, beautiful and trusting. If she had never crossed a psychopath before, she would have absolutely no clue how evil one could be. In contrast, a psychopath or predatory personality, can read and groom a victim almost perfectly. It is an absolutely unfair fight, particularly with her youth.

Psychopaths, narcissists, predators,. whatever you call it....can be very adept at appearing to have consciences when they dont. Someone as trusting as young as ML would have a very difficult time against someone like that.

Most individuals who have had a narcissist cross their path are very weary and vigilant for signs they never saw before. But, before having that experience, most people, especially so young, are no match for that type of cunning and evil.

Just some general thoughts. I think he had a predatory ability to read his intended victims well and those he picked were likely picked because of their traits such as compassion or kindness that could be used against them.

MOO

<modsnip - soliciting private message, please contact a mod instead>

An absolutely great post. Thank you

 

[iamcurious9]

There are victims of all ages and life experiences who never saw it coming. Developmental and practical life experience, even if you account for some out of the norm experiences here and there, will not make you savvy to a psychopathic predator. They simply operate on a system of rules and desired goal outcomes that the rest of us don't, so they've already figured out how to predict and overcome typical behavior and thinking in the social order. They've already learned to read and assess the behavior of prey and potential for successful 'capture', and they know what's going on in the world around their target. They will even take risks that no one else would, because they know how much time they need, what resistance they're likely to encounter, and what it will take to separate their victim from help. They are willing to be bold and they know that boldness and speed even in the presence of witnesses (grabbing victims in broad daylight right in front of their own home for example) counters other risks and overwhelms both victim and witness. Plus, they don't care.

These are individuals who have a handbook we haven't even read.

Totally agree

 

[iamcurious9]

Or quite possibly we read too much into things. Majority assumed he knew the cameras were dummies but like a poster said which was actually brilliant, how would he have known? Unless he had connections then it's another discussion. We tend to explain things that always fit our narrative. The truth is everybody has some predator in them. From solicitors to business owners to Trump to politicians. Many people in this country will eat you up and spit you out if you arent careful.

At some point you have to put your foot down and not become prey.

No. Not everybody.