Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #4

[poppydarling]

Not to belabor this point @poppydarling, but do you think people with nefarious intent may gravitate more toward using a "sugar baby" dating site over a traditional dating website? Do you think they may see these men or women as better targets? Maybe because they are potentially in need of money? Or...because the "sugar baby" would potentially allow for a little more anonymity if they were to indicate they could not reveal too much about themselves because the are rich, powerful, influential, etc.?

In a word, no.

To expand, from research, there is no indication that participation in the sugar lifestyle increases one’s risk for victimization.

There are a lot of other opportunities and easier ways to victimize individuals other than pose as a sugar daddy.

That doesn’t mean it never happens but the victimization is actually more commonly the other direction- the sugar baby takes advantage of the sugar daddy.

 

[BelleIsle]

Question: What I find confusing is that young women are being taught that money=power. There is more to their value than money. I understand that this is legal, but they are giving some of their power away in these transactions. What @Gardenista quoted, it worries me. IMO MOO all of that. There is too much grey area here for me to feel like it is a safe road for so many young women to take. Are we not supposed to worry about them only because it is legal? It seems like the emotional damage could be profound. @poppydarling Are you saying that (psychologically speaking) this is not like a gateway drug, metaphorically speaking? So, most of these young girls will go on to have lives where they can see their value above and beyond an exchange, or as a product/brand? Do we even know the answers to this yet, as this seems to be a fairly new lifestyle due to easy access with apps and the internet? I am genuinely worried that this is the norm for so many young women who haven't yet had a chance to fully form their identity as powerful, independent beings, and what that means/should mean/could mean in a patriarchal/non-patriarchal society.

 

[otto]

No problem, I know it’s a tricky and often taboo topic to discuss. But there are many of us professionals who handle this type of lifestyle frequently and have a better grasp. Always happy to educate!

Per Tricia's comment, please help with understanding of Sugar SB, SD and other acronyms.

 

[thor87]

In a word, no.

To expand, from research, there is no indication that participation in the sugar lifestyle increases one’s risk for victimization.

There are a lot of other opportunities and easier ways to victimize individuals other than pose as a sugar daddy.

That doesn’t mean it never happens but the victimization is actually more commonly the other direction- the sugar baby takes advantage of the sugar daddy.

Thank you so much for the response, @poppydarling. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us! It has been enlightening!

 

[Jealoushe]

LOL, ok another question because I am not IG savvy. Would it be easy to accidentally un-privatize your IG?

Some people open their private accounts before they post, so people who search or follow a hashtag can find the posts, then privatize it after a time like an hr or so.

So she could have made her open, posted a photo with a certain hashtag, then users searching that tag can find her and creep her insta, add her etc. Then she privatizes it after a time so people she doesn’t want to creep it can’t. I know a few people who do this.

Something I’m just thinking about...does anyone find it odd that LE asked if anyone was aware of her using a burner phone? It doesn’t seem like that gets asked in other missing cases.

My guess was they checked her phones ping, or call logs and it stopped somewhere, so they think she may have another phone as it doesn’t match her timeline?

 

[otto]

Of course. But being religious often has nothing to do with virtue. IMO.

Exactly. Murderers and kidnappers are not religious people. They are criminals.

 

[RustyNail19]

I know little of SD/SB but I find it hard to believe men would spend thousands of dollars on a woman and not expect sex in return.

 

[poppydarling]

Going to alert this in case mods want to remove, but you don't find the hashtag #imdeadinside concerning?

Mental health wise, yes I find that concerning. Related to the sugar lifestyle? I don’t think it is correlated.

 

[otto]

I think the park was a convenient meeting spot for someone coming from the north. It seems to be right off an exit off of 15 (per Google maps) and it's easy access to get back on 15. IMO, this was chosen as the meeting-point because it was most convenient for the person meeting her

Yes, but that doesn't mean he didn't double back in the opposite direction to add a level of deception into the mix.

 

[somequestions]

I know you cannot read too much into a picture, but there is a picture of Mackenzie Lueck in the news where she is holding her phone up to her chest and her other hand up to her chest. In my opinion, it looks like a gesture for someone doing something nice for her. On the other hand, it could also be a gesture of shock like someone just got done doing something bad that she walked away from.

Either way, it must have happened before she got her roll behind luggage bag since that large bag is not in the photo. So maybe someone on the plane, a flight attendant, pilot, etc. surprised her in some way after she got off the plane?

 

[JudgeJoe]

Waaaay behind. I thought the MT case last summer & JC case last fall moved fast, but this one’s at the speed of light. Too fast to even roll & scroll. My apologies in advance if I’ve missed stuff... Saw the Martha MacCallum news tonight with footage of ML at the airport- confirms she never changed clothes or freshened her makeup. Which leads me to believe she felt comfortable meeting whomever it was at the park. Didn’t feel the need to get all fixed up. Really feel this rendezvous was with someone familiar.

 

[Gardenista]

Mental health wise, yes I find that concerning. Related to the sugar lifestyle? I don’t think it is correlated.

Are you saying you don't think it is correlated to MK's lifestyle or just to the sugar lifestyle in general?

 

[poppydarling]

Question: What I find confusing is that young women are being taught that money=power. There is more to their value than money. I understand that this is legal, but they are giving some of their power away in these transactions. What @Gardenista quoted, it worries me. IMO MOO all of that. There is too much grey area here for me to feel like it is a safe road for so many young women to take. Are we not supposed to worry about them only because it is legal? It seems like the emotional damage could be profound. @poppydarling Are you saying that (psychologically speaking) this is not like a gateway drug, metaphorically speaking? So, most of these young girls will go on to have lives where they can see their value above and beyond an exchange, or as a product/brand? Do we even know the answers to this yet, as this seems to be a fairly new lifestyle due to easy access with apps and the internet? I am genuinely worried that this is the norm for so many young women who haven't yet had a chance to fully form their identity as powerful, independent beings, and what that means/should mean/could mean in a patriarchal/non-patriarchal society.

I am not saying that for some individuals this may be a sign of other mental instability. But that is uncommon.

The sugar lifestyle is not link to other risky behavior. In fact, it is often found (in studies about sexual deviance) to be a protective factor. Girls who engage in sugar relationships are much more likely to be informed, intelligent, and cautious than girls who enjoy things like one night stands or unprotected sex.

Again, the sugar life style is so much less sexually driven than it appears.

 

[Amour4mi]

So it was mentioned her family is staying in Ca for the time being. I don't get this at all. I just don't.

Wait ..I thought they were flying in yesterday?? This is odd and really hard to put together. I think they may have an more information than they are releasing. I don't understand how first they thought she wanted to get off the grid. I find that odd for a college student who is a senior, working, and a ticket booked to go back for a wedding. There's something that has happened to cause them to be concerned and it also appears that they are not too comfortable with sharing details.

 

[BelleIsle]

In a word, no.

To expand, from research, there is no indication that participation in the sugar lifestyle increases one’s risk for victimization.

There are a lot of other opportunities and easier ways to victimize individuals other than pose as a sugar daddy.

That doesn’t mean it never happens but the victimization is actually more commonly the other direction- the sugar baby takes advantage of the sugar daddy.

This answered some of my question.
RBBM but "takes advantage of" is a grey area. IMO These men will likely recover quickly from a financial loss, the possible emotional damage is much more difficult to bounce back from. I don't see how receiving money in exchange for emotional and/or physical attention can not be somehow damaging. We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this. Even in a marriage or committed relationship, this type of trade seems unhealthy.

 

[wary]

There’s nothing that excludes that possibility.

This very well may have been a situation that got out of control, as opposed to some premeditated crime.

And crimes can be ‘premeditated’ without being ‘preplanned.’

 

[otto]

How does the girl know if the man actually has $$ ?..or he's just a creep who pretends he is rich..sounds scary.

She doesn't: Jasmine Fiore

 

[ksmith3271]

I’m wondering if it might be someone who would have been able to recognize the cameras were dummy cameras, maybe.

I’m mainly put off by the park being the meeting place at 3 am. Why not an IHOP or a Walgreens parking lot? My impression is that the park was to provide anonymity which is why I find it so troubling.

ML is in the park....driven by a total stranger....at three o clock in the morning.....with an oversized suitcase.
There are secrets here.
Where there are secrets.... sometimes there are burner phones.

Noted but thus far nothing that has been said by LE, family or friends to support the idea that ML had a burner phone or a secondary phone. In fact, when asked, multiple friends told multiple reporters on multiple occasions they knew nothing about / had never seen or known ML to have or use a second phone. So, yes, anything is possible but unless cited it’s a factless claim being perpetuated with no substantiation. Just because a 23 year old single woman MAY have enjoyed alternative relationships doesn’t mean she needed to hide them on a top secret burner phone. It’s sex not hiding dead bodies

 

[klind55]

I know you cannot read too much into a picture, but there is a picture of Mackenzie Lueck in the news where she is holding her phone up to her chest and her other hand up to her chest. In my opinion, it looks like a gesture for someone doing something nice for her. On the other hand, it could also be a gesture of shock like someone just got done doing something bad that she walked away from.

Either way, it must have happened before she got her roll behind luggage bag since that large bag is not in the photo. So maybe someone on the plane, a flight attendant, pilot, etc. surprised her in some way after she got off the plane?

I noticed that expression also on her face. She noticed someone or something. LE says she didn't talk to anyone in the airport but her expression/body language in this pic just say otherwise to me.

 

[Gardenista]

BTW, anyone can find the photo I'm talking about that has the #imdeadinside hashtag. Just google the hashtag with her pvt IG user name and click on the cached version of the sites that come up. Then search for her user name on the page you clicked on.