Found Alive UT - Madelyn Allen, 19, seen leaving Snow College dorm, Ephraim, 13 Dec 2021

[evilwise]

You can't really compare the two when we didn't have a suspect in Sherri's case. In this case, we know who held her. We also know that police believe she didn't stay with him by her own will.

Had Sherri been found at the corresponding phase of her case's investigation, I expect similar charges would have been laid against her "kidnapper". Probably even more serious ones if she was already battered and burned by that point.

 

[Lusitana]

Let justice run it's course.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Back in court for pretrial conference in MA's case on 12-12-22

Court Calendar Search Results - Utah Courts

 

[NeverPersonal]

interested for the outcome of this one.
freaky guy.

 

[NeverPersonal]

This is an ugly kidnapping & sexual assault case which must have evidence for each charge or it would not be so close to trial.

While we have not seen the evidence, I think a reasonable person would question BB's innocence based on what we do know.

While MA may be proven to have used extremely bad judgment in interacting with him online, we don't know if she left voluntarily with him once she left the door of her dorm.

Snipped by me respectfully (that's what you guys say right, when you edit a quote to remove parts?)

Unfortunately I feel as though there are pictures and videos coming into play here as evidence. Because they seemed to have plenty evidence to corroborate Maddie's story.

The last point you bring up is a very solid one, and I think that's exactly what happened. She may have wanted to 'experiment' with fantasies, respectfully, just judging by the details in the post we know she made asking for someone to pick her up. But she appears to be quite an innocent Mormon kid and had no idea what she was really getting herself into. She likely, in my opinion, withdrew her consent from this man very quickly into their encounter and he did not seem to care whether she consented or not, as he had made up his mind, hence the charges. As a woman it sickens me to think about.

Of course, there is a flip side to this where some people have the belief this could have been consensual and then upon her finding out she's missing - damage control. But I don't personally think that is what happened at all.

I pray this girl finds healing and love on her journey forward.

 

[evilwise]

Her hiding from police when they came to find her suggests she was still a willing participant - but him disposing of her cell phone suggests he never intended to let her return to her normal life. It would certainly be interesting to be a fly on the wall at those conferences. Neither a litany of additional felony charges nor dropping of all charges would surprise me as a result but I kind of suspect this is the final opportunity everyone is being given to tell the whole story before damage control could potentially become perjury.

 

[cocomod]

<modsnip - off topic case> I believe she hid from cops out of fear, he threatened her or her family. But, I am very interested in the evidence they will show at trial. I am interested in what his friends and family knew.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Her hiding from police when they came to find her suggests she was still a willing participant

Snipped for focus

I don't buy that premise. From everything we know about trauma victims, her behavior in hiding form police isn't at all unusual and I dare say, given my work as a physician and knowledge in the area of trauma, it's predictable.

 

[evilwise]

Snipped for focus

I don't buy that premise. From everything we know about trauma victims, her behavior in hiding form police isn't at all unusual and I dare say, given my work as a physician and knowledge in the area of trauma, it's predictable.

So then what, in your opinion as a physician and from your knowledge in the area of trauma, would be the predictable behavior of a willing participant who didn't want her participation to be known?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

So then what, in your opinion as a physician and from your knowledge in the area of trauma, would be the predictable behavior of a willing participant who didn't want her participation to be known?

Depends entirely on the person, the type and extent of trauma, and the time.

That's why it's called fight, flight, freeze, or fawn .

 

[evilwise]

Depends entirely on the person, the type and extent of trauma, and the time.

That's why it's called fight, flight, freeze, or fawn .

So in this case I suppose we don't have adequate information to make accurate predictions, do we?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

So in this case I suppose we don't have adequate information to make accurate predictions, do we?

Well, I was just replying to your statement that her hiding suggests she was a willing participant. It actually doesn't. In the psychology of trauma, her hiding is a predictable outcome. If this person came into my office and said she hid when police came in, the response in my head would be "of course you did," and not that it suggests anything about her compliance or willingness in this ordeal.

I'd do the same in the case of a domestic violence victim who's beaten into the ICU and chooses not to press charges, for similar (though not the same) reason.

 

[Lusitana]

I also don't understand why people keep insisting that, because she hid from LE, she wanted to be there and was giving consent. This is actually against TOS, this man has been charged and if he's innocent justice will say so, but Madelyn is a victim and I can't imagine how she might feel if she ever comes across this thread. Do better. Please.

 

[evilwise]

I also don't understand why people keep insisting that, because she hid from LE, she wanted to be there and was giving consent. This is actually against TOS, this man has been charged and if he's innocent justice will say so, but Madelyn is a victim and I can't imagine how she might feel if she ever comes across this thread. Do better. Please.

No one's insisting. We have Madelyn posting on Quora that she wants to be kidnapped. We have her on video walking out the door to meet her kidnapper and we have her hiding in her kidnapper's house from the police. I don't understand how anyone can't see that there's significant evidence to support complicity. I'm sure there is a lot of additional evidence we don't know about and I'm perfectly willing to believe that, when it comes out, it will prove that at some point she explicitly withdraw her consent but from what I see right now, if I were a juror I wouldn't convict.

 

[WingsOverTX]

No one's insisting. We have Madelyn posting on Quora that she wants to be kidnapped. We have her on video walking out the door to meet her kidnapper and we have her hiding in her kidnapper's house from the police. I don't understand how anyone can't see that there's significant evidence to support complicity. I'm sure there is a lot of additional evidence we don't know about and I'm perfectly willing to believe that, when it comes out, it will prove that at some point she explicitly withdraw her consent but from what I see right now, if I were a juror I wouldn't convict.

I would take into account her age & maturity level.

Was she reckless in putting herself in harms way? Perhaps. We really don't know what her expectations were. Fantasy vs. reality!

Seeing the footage of her leaving her dorm totally unprepared for the weather (skirt, bare legs, flimsy shoes, hoodie & only a grocery-type plastic bag with what appears to be food) makes me question the degree to which she was coerced & what kind of mental state she was in.

<modsnip>

BB has been held for almost a year for very serious crimes against MA in addition to an unrelated outstanding warrant in a separate case.

He is twice her age with children. I think his state of mind is clear. I also think he is a predator in a state where naive young women brought up in very conservative religious environments are the norm.

Context is important. Her actions will be judged in court. But she's not charged with any crimes.

JMO

 

[cnmccarthy]

I also don't understand why people keep insisting that, because she hid from LE, she wanted to be there and was giving consent. This is actually against TOS, this man has been charged and if he's innocent justice will say so, but Madelyn is a victim and I can't imagine how she might feel if she ever comes across this thread. Do better. Please.

WELL SAID.

 

[Lusitana]

No one's insisting. We have Madelyn posting on Quora that she wants to be kidnapped. We have her on video walking out the door to meet her kidnapper and we have her hiding in her kidnapper's house from the police. I don't understand how anyone can't see that there's significant evidence to support complicity. I'm sure there is a lot of additional evidence we don't know about and I'm perfectly willing to believe that, when it comes out, it will prove that at some point she explicitly withdraw her consent but from what I see right now, if I were a juror I wouldn't convict.

I honestly see the "I want to be kidnapped" as something so naïve, like "I just wish someone cool would take me on a adventure for the weekend", not something like "I hope someone takes me against my will and sexually assaults me, but also disposes of my phone so I can't contact someone".

Look, I don't doubt she had intentions of maybe sexually engaging with him when she left her room, the thing is, there seems to be sufficient evidence that she was there against her will and that she was in fact assaulted and abused. Otherwise, why would he even be charged with anything? I really do wonder what the plan was, what she expected, etc. But saying she liked what was done to her... yikes.

I also wonder if she knew it was him who she was meeting or if she expected someone else.

 

[scapa]

I honestly see the "I want to be kidnapped" as something so naïve, like "I just wish someone cool would take me on a adventure for the weekend", not something like "I hope someone takes me against my will and sexually assaults me, but also disposes of my phone so I can't contact someone".

Look, I don't doubt she had intentions of maybe sexually engaging with him when she left her room, the thing is, there seems to be sufficient evidence that she was there against her will and that she was in fact assaulted and abused. Otherwise, why would he even be charged with anything? I really do wonder what the plan was, what she expected, etc. But saying she liked what was done to her... yikes.

I also wonder if she knew it was him who she was meeting or if she expected someone else.

This.

If this was a classic sexual predator's bait-and-switch then we have evidence of a plan to deceive and a likely premise for coercion from the point at which MA realizes that he isn't the person she thought she was meeting -- at that point also, his plan is in motion and he isn't turning back.

I don't see obvious complicity here -- and, actually, I'm not sure what that word means in this context, where we have evidence of kidnapping, serious ongoing sexual abuse and forced confinement. Consent is not given once and thereafter irrevocable, especially in the domains of kink. I find this case profoundly disturbing -- I'm not at all sure she would have survived this had she not been found, or that the next victim would have either. IMO.

 

[Lusitana]

This.

If this was a classic sexual predator's bait-and-switch then we have evidence of a plan to deceive and a likely premise for coercion from the point at which MA realizes that he isn't the person she thought she was meeting -- at that point also, his plan is in motion and he isn't turning back.

I don't see obvious complicity here -- and, actually, I'm not sure what that word means in this context, where we have evidence of kidnapping, serious ongoing sexual abuse and forced confinement. Consent is not given once and thereafter irrevocable, especially in the domains of kink. I find this case profoundly disturbing -- I'm not at all sure she would have survived this had she not been found, or that the next victim would have either. IMO.

Exactly. People can say "oh she hid from LE" all they want but what we know is that he is charged with crimes committed against her, so SHE is the victim. It pains me to see these posts on this thread because there's most likely a high probability of her reading all of it. Madelyn is the victim.

 

[WingsOverTX]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> ... whatever one's personal opinion about the victim, the state fully believes they have evidence to prove he is a kidnapper and rapist. And he has been held almost a year in confinement on that belief. So there's that.
Moo