Found Alive UT - Madelyn Allen, 19, seen leaving Snow College dorm, Ephraim, 13 Dec 2021

[BlkMtnGirl]

Look at it this way, a lot of people think that what happened to Sherri Papini is similar to what happened here except Sherri wasn't found, was eventually released and doesn't want to talk about what happened to her. I think it's pretty likely Madelyn will also come to a point where she decides she doesn't want to talk about it anymore and I wonder if people will turn against her the same way.

I think Maddie might decide to do the opposite and publicly warn others about online predators. I really enjoyed her “fighter” video. In any case, I’m glad she’s safe and hope she and her family have a wonderful holiday.

 

[Bishop Black]

This is an interesting article about the use of Kik by predators.

The site authorities say Madelyn Allen's suspected kidnapper used has been popular among men charged with sexual abuse

The man accused of kidnapping and raping student Madelyn Allen met her through the messaging platform Kik, according to the indictment obtained by Insider.

Kik is an anonymous platform that has been used by predators in the past to contact young victims and exchange explicit images. Forbes reported it had a "huge child exploitation problem" in 2017 due to users' anonymity and the platform's lack of action in deleting offenders' profiles.

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In 2018, a BBC investigation found that Kik had been involved in 1,100 child sexual abuse cases in the previous five years.

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In February, a convicted pedophile used the app to upload footage of himself abusing a child, the Daily Mail reported. Lewis Tupper, a 25-year-old man from West Yorkshire in the United Kingdom, was sentenced to 10 years in jail for uploading videos and photos of him molesting an underage girl.

*********************************
The same platform where investigators said Brown and Allen met was also used by Nathan Larson, a self-professed pedophile and white supremacist whom authorities said kidnapped a 12-year-old girl in December 2020.
Larson, who had advocated for legalizing child *advertiser censored*, was charged with kidnapping, child abduction, soliciting child *advertiser censored* from a minor, and meeting a child for the intention of sex, among other things.

More at link

So I'm curious, has it ever been confirmed that the victim met this fellow on this Kik site, or is it just a rumor?

 

[SimplyCass]

So I'm curious, has it ever been confirmed that the victim met this fellow on this Kik site, or is it just a rumor?

It's in the indictment (as where the two allegedly met before the text messages), so at the very least, it's not a random rumor started on social media. Not sure if the evidence or the actual text of the indictment will be unsealed for the public to see.

 

[Bishop Black]

It's in the indictment (as where the two allegedly met before the text messages), so at the very least, it's not a random rumor started on social media. Not sure if the evidence or the actual text of the indictment will be unsealed for the public to see.

Interesting. A site specifically dedicated to a 'fetish' or 'kink' that doesn't occur in the confines of relations is definitely an abnormal view of sex, so it wouldn't shock me if it's bound to attract predators. Basically it's a "fast food" take on sex.[/quote]

 

[cnmccarthy]

So I'm curious, has it ever been confirmed that the victim met this fellow on this Kik site, or is it just a rumor?

Interesting. A site specifically dedicated to a 'fetish' or 'kink' that doesn't occur in the confines of relations is definitely an abnormal view of sex, so it wouldn't shock me if it's bound to attract predators. Basically it's a "fast food" take on sex.

Just wanted to say- kik is not specifically dedicated to fetishes and kinks. It’s truly just a messaging app like WhatsApp. But because of its Anonymity it easily attracts predators, sexual conversations, and the like.

 

[Bishop Black]

Just wanted to say- kik is not specifically dedicated to fetishes and kinks. It’s truly just a messaging app like WhatsApp. But because of its Anonymity it easily attracts predators, sexual conversations, and the like.

Right, I've heard of other sites like OnlyFans which aren't dedicated to *advertiser censored*, but end up being co-oped by pornographers. (Another one is Twitch, which is supposed to be a site for broadcasting video games but allegedly ends-up with a lot of "webcam" accounts loosely disguised as "gaming channels", and which don't cross the line into actual nudity or *advertiser censored*).

 

[airportwoman]

I honestly wish for Maddie all these details weren’t released. Talk about trauma all over. Poor thing. Praying for her. Let this loser rot in jail.

Does anyone know if she gave permission for the details to be released? She may have, and I certainly hope that was the case.

 

[al66pine]

KIK MESSENGER
Hoping this may be useful for our tech wizards in figuring out whether some Kik data may still be retrievable to LE. Pls excuse my tech ignorance.

Kik Messenger*
"Kik Messenger,...Kik, is a freeware instant messaging
mobile app...
free of charge on iOS and Android operating systems.[6] It uses a smartphone's data plan or Wi-Fi to transmit & receive messages, photos, videos, sketches, mobile web pages, and other content after users register a username. [7]
... known for its features preserving users' anonymity, such as allowing users to register without the need to provide a telephone number or valid email address...
not employ end-to-end encryption,[8]...
company also logs user IP addresses, which could be used to determine the user's ISP & approximate location.[9][10]
This information, as well as "reported" conversations, are regularly surrendered upon request by law enforcement organizations,[11] sometimes without the need for a court order.[12]" sbm

More discussion re Features, such as anonymity.

I noticed this in LE Guide:
"Kik’s servers only retain images and video content for 30 days.... the text of chat messages are stored locally on the Kik user’s device" page 11.

Kik Law Enforcement Guide** 18 pages.
"What is KIK 2
Safety Features on KIK 3
Kik Identifiers 5
How to Locate a Kik Username 7
How to Locate a Kik Group Hashtag or Scan Code 9 Submitting a Legal Order to Kik 10
Available Data 11
Order Requirements & Recommended Language 13 Emergency Disclosure Requests 15
Preservation Requests 16
Additional Information 17."
________________________________
* Kik Messenger - Wikipedia
**https://www.kik.com/uploads/files/Kik Law Enforcement Guide-Final 2021.pdf

 

[evilwise]

KIK MESSENGER
Hoping this may be useful for our tech wizards in figuring out whether some Kik data may still be retrievable to LE. Pls excuse my tech ignorance.

Kik Messenger*
"Kik Messenger,...Kik, is a freeware instant messaging
mobile app...
free of charge on iOS and Android operating systems.[6] It uses a smartphone's data plan or Wi-Fi to transmit & receive messages, photos, videos, sketches, mobile web pages, and other content after users register a username. [7]
... known for its features preserving users' anonymity, such as allowing users to register without the need to provide a telephone number or valid email address...
not employ end-to-end encryption,[8]...
company also logs user IP addresses, which could be used to determine the user's ISP & approximate location.[9][10]
This information, as well as "reported" conversations, are regularly surrendered upon request by law enforcement organizations,[11] sometimes without the need for a court order.[12]" sbm

More discussion re Features, such as anonymity.

I noticed this in LE Guide:
"Kik’s servers only retain images and video content for 30 days.... the text of chat messages are stored locally on the Kik user’s device" page 11.

Kik Law Enforcement Guide** 18 pages.
"What is KIK 2
Safety Features on KIK 3
Kik Identifiers 5
How to Locate a Kik Username 7
How to Locate a Kik Group Hashtag or Scan Code 9 Submitting a Legal Order to Kik 10
Available Data 11
Order Requirements & Recommended Language 13 Emergency Disclosure Requests 15
Preservation Requests 16
Additional Information 17."
________________________________
* Kik Messenger - Wikipedia
**https://www.kik.com/uploads/files/Kik Law Enforcement Guide-Final 2021.pdf

In this case it seems like they have one or both of the subjects' phones plus I get the distinct impression that this dude does not understand the law and thinks he's done nothing wrong so eventually he will come to understand and will plead guilty to charges like unlawful detainment and sexual imposition or whatever the Utah equivalent is.

As far as what you posted about Kik generally means, my key takeaways are that although the text of conversations isn't normally saved it IS saved if anyone in it reports it. They can probably also capture particular conversations if they have reason to, like in cooperation with law enforcement and it also says that Kik is known to provide identifying information on users to law enforcement without a warrant, which is something that varies from company to company. Kik probably is more concerned about projecting an image of preventing violent crime than of protecting civil criminal "pirates" exchanging movies or games or whatever on the platform. From what I understand about Kik it offers features that would appeal more to rapists than to pirates.

 

[gitana1]

That is extremely interesting. This puts a bit of a twist in the scenario.
Hope she is safe.

Good find, hope it's been found or reported.

It creates reasonable doubt when it comes to a conviction.

 

[evilwise]

It creates reasonable doubt when it comes to a conviction.

Oh jeez, I had not seen that before but now I feel obligated to post a screencap of it (with the last 4 of the phone number censored) just in case it vanishes.

Worth noting specifically that not only was the question posted 11 days before she "disappeared", the profile was created with her name in 2018 so its very unlikely that it is fake or that it was posted by someone other than her

 

[gitana1]

Oh jeez, I had not seen that before but now I feel obligated to post a screencap of it (with the last 4 of the phone number censored) just in case it vanishes.
View attachment 328212
Worth noting specifically that not only was the question posted 11 days before she "disappeared", the profile was created with her name in 2018 so its very unlikely that it is fake or that it was posted by someone other than her

Yeah. It’s problematic. The supposed discussions online with this creep that were of a violent nature could also be problematic when it comes to a conviction. So could the information about her running when the cops knocked.

She’s lucky to be alive, frankly. It appears that something happened to her mentally, and she got in over her head with a sick predator. But the facts lead to a viable defense. IMO.

 

[Lusitana]

She's alive but recovering is not going to be easy. I wish her all the best.

 

[Denniece]

Oh jeez, I had not seen that before but now I feel obligated to post a screencap of it (with the last 4 of the phone number censored) just in case it vanishes.
View attachment 328212
Worth noting specifically that not only was the question posted 11 days before she "disappeared", the profile was created with her name in 2018 so its very unlikely that it is fake or that it was posted by someone other than her

Are you able to see who her four followers are?

 

[cnmccarthy]

Are you able to see who her four followers are?

I tried awhile back but was unable to

 

[evilwise]

Are you able to see who her four followers are?

Yes but I don't think it's relevant. Two of the four are completely empty accounts created in December following only Madelyn (clearly because of the case). The other two are women with older accounts but no real posting history on them either. Quora isn't exactly a social media rabbit hole.

It's also not the kind of site to find fetish connections. For her to have been posting about it there of all places yes it does strongly, legally suggest that she was initially complicit but the flip side is that in our hearts we should try to understand she was very innocent about it, posting it to a square question answering site right next to a question about if she would get into trouble with her church for having pierced ears and then she innocently jumped into the deep end, probably under the impression that she could always depend on the kindness of strangers even when it comes to stuff like that.

It would be great if public opinion was able to appreciate the nuance involved in this case but I have little expectation of it.

 

[Kristin Esq.]

Does anyone know when his next court date is?

 

[Beans]

So his parents were away? Or did they just own the home he lives in? Reminds me of Jayme Closs case where the kidnapper's parents probably saw these stories on the news and had no idea that their own son was the one responsible. Imagine being them and getting that call from the police.

And then he's asking to go home for Christmas? The absolute gall.

I see borderline victim-blamey stuff about her religious community, mixed with posts imploring us not to blame any online communities, which seems more than a little twisted. Her family seems to be truly loving and I'm happy she's surrounded by people committed to helping her heal and thrive.

I believe one was in hospital and the other was staying in a friend’s house near the hospital while treatment was ongoing, and that they’d been away for a few weeks by the time this all came to a head. Horrific thing for them to go through.

 

[RIPRM]

MADDIE DID NOT CONSENT TO WHAT WAS BEING DONE TO HER.

How do you know?

 

[evilwise]

How do you know?

Because she says so! Why would she lie? Not like if she had been into it she'd be in big, big trouble with her family and her church. They're surrounding her to help her heal and thrive!