Identified! VA - Annandale, WhtFem 245UFVA, ~60, 'NO CODE, DNR, No Penicillin', Dec'96

[Giucy]

I can "see" all the reasons for wanting to take your own life and I can understand the principle of self-determinition. But wy not carying an ID? Could it be that she was in a place where they kept it for her? I don't know if and where they might do that in the USA.

In 1996 ?? Nope.

Only in the 2010 the debate started about medical assistance for dying. Such assistance in 1996 => murder.
Principles of self-determination about death was not accepted in those days.

What you say may be relevant now, but it doesn't fit the context in 1996.

 

[allmybecsloveme]

I find it odd that this woman was found with a bag over her head and it was ruled a suicide. Suffocation is not an easy way to go, I would think the majority of people attempting suicide by suffocation would give up quickly, it's not quick like a gun shot or hanging. However, I know they probably ruled it a suicide for a reason, I imagine if there had been any cuts, bruises etc they would have looked into a covered up murder. It's just a bit weird.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Bit of hope]

You are missing the point here. Of course there was no medical assistance in those days, so she had to do it herself (still questionable if it was suicide IMO) for what ever reason....I don't question any reason, I guess she had a good one. Who am I to judge. She choosed (or she did not have a private space) to do it outside and in a quiet place, the cemetary with the things she loved around her (I can not entirely rule out that everything was staged, but I guess not) The thing is...wy not identify yourself....maybe her documents where stolen...or kept in a place (a hospital, a shelter or the like)

 

[Jigoku Dayu]

Suicide is still a shameful thing to this day. People don't want to bring shame to their families and that's a big motivation for not wanting to be identified. There is is also the self-hatred and utter lack of self-worth that makes people want to die with as little fuss made about them as possible. They don't feel they merit a proper funeral or people noticing. They simply wish to disappear, or as close as they can to it. They also don't want anyone to mourn them or to have their families to be hurt by the suicide.

Quite a few people use plastic bags to kill themselves, often in addition to an overdose, like this Jane Doe did. It's a "fail-safe" method - in case one thing doesn't work, the other will. The most famous case is that of Clara Blandick (Auntie Em from "The Wizard of Oz"). The Heaven's Gate cult also used this method.

 

[Jigoku Dayu]

In '96, there was quite a lot of debate over right-to-die. Dr. Jack Kevorkian was in the middle of legal battles at the time over it.

 

[Bit of hope]

I was hoping to get a little bit further in trying to knowing who she was...but maybe we should let her rest in peace...I'm not sure now

 

[Tssiemer]

I go back and forth on this.

She obviously got what she wanted to go out on her terms anonymously. And we should respect that and move on.

But

What about her family, friends, etc? You can't just erase yourself from this earth. Everything you do has an impact on someone somewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bit of hope]

That's what I'm thinking to (about family, friends). I'm confused now what to do.

 

[Giucy]

You are missing the point here. Of course there was no medical assistance in those days, so she had to do it herself (still questionable if it was suicide IMO) for what ever reason....I don't question any reason, I guess she had a good one. Who am I to judge. She choosed (or she did not have a private space) to do it outside and in a quiet place, the cemetary with the things she loved around her (I can not entirely rule out that everything was staged, but I guess not) The thing is...wy not identify yourself....maybe her documents where stolen...or kept in a place (a hospital, a shelter or the like)

Thank you for clarifying ! I actually completely misread your post.

Also, another point is that choosing to die when you want, so doing it yourself was not accepted at all. So, since choosing when you want to die with a terminal illness was no as widely accepted as now even without medical assistance, she didn't want to be identified. Because she'd brought shame upon her family if she died by herself because of a terminal illness.
Hope it's clearer.

So, actually, we said two different things but in the same root idea. I hope I said things clearly.

 

[Mintgiver]

I find it odd that this woman was found with a bag over her head and it was ruled a suicide. Suffocation is not an easy way to go, I would think the majority of people attempting suicide by suffocation would give up quickly, it's not quick like a gun shot or hanging. However, I know they probably ruled it a suicide for a reason, I imagine if there had been any cuts, bruises etc they would have looked into a covered up murder. It's just a bit weird.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

The actress who played Auntie Em killed herself with a bag over her head. It can be done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BayouGypsy]

Does anyone know if there was an autopsy done? I have read "yes" and "no". Are they certain the scar on her abdomen is a C-section scar or could it be from another type of surgery? Or a scar from an accident or knife wound? I have a vertical incision C-section scar and a hernia repair scar right along side of it. My Dr. couldn't tell which was which. The roll of tape was found inside her bag? So she put the bag over her head, taped it around her neck and put the tape in the bag? I read somewhere that her clothes suggested that she had money but her bag was handmade, could she have been a housekeeper and wore cast offs from her employer? I have so many questions and keep getting conflicting answers reading among different posts in different forums.

 

[sloane7777]

I go back and forth on this.

She obviously got what she wanted to go out on her terms anonymously. And we should respect that and move on.

But

What about her family, friends, etc? You can't just erase yourself from this earth. Everything you do has an impact on someone somewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yes , it impacts us too ....something to think about . I often wonder if I would be missed and then I see things like this.

 

[Bit of hope]

Shehad committed suicide by drinking brandy (she had a 0.14 blood-alcohol level ) In Dutch this would mean 1.4 promile, the maximum you may have is 0,5 promile when you go driving. She was very small so that is quiet a lot in a relatively short time, swallowing Valium,and placing a plastic bag over her head and tying it off with tape, suffocatingherself.

There must be at least a blood sample (otherwise you could not know her blood-alcohol level. For the valium I don't know, it could be a conclusion made because of the things she had with her. You can breath for a while with a plastic bag on your head, but in the end there is no O2 anymore. Breathing out CO2....

 

[Bit of hope]

Thank you for clarifying ! I actually completely misread your post.

Also, another point is that choosing to die when you want, so doing it yourself was not accepted at all. So, since choosing when you want to die with a terminal illness was no as widely accepted as now even without medical assistance, she didn't want to be identified. Because she'd brought shame upon her family if she died by herself because of a terminal illness.
Hope it's clearer.

So, actually, we said two different things but in the same root idea. I hope I said things clearly.

You added another very good motive for not wanting to be ID-d. In some communities taken your own life is a sin itself (sorry for my crooked English)

 

[Bit of hope]

I'm thinking about ShirleySprang. Age and features seem to fit, Coperlike blond/red hair. Last phone contact with police would have been on 19/12/1996 (een donderdag) What if this was not the correct entered date? It;s only a day... Wy suddenly after so many years ( in 1990 was the last physical contact with her family) What was the reason for this phonecall? She is not ruled out for UID, has a scaron abdomen, probably from a C-section but that is not sure. (I read somewhere that with UID this also was not 100 procent sure.....

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3230dfwi.html

 

[Bit of hope]

What if she were Marjorie West?

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/799dfpa.html

Sorry, but 60-ish red-haired ladies make me think of Marjorie West.

A long shot, but I was considering that also.

 

[avhuebner]

Yes, the vertical scar is from a C-section (most likely) - that is how they used to do them. I don't know when they started doing the horizontal ones. Thank goodness they do!!!!

 

[Bit of hope]

another one I'm considering....the story appeales to me....she had a walkman with headphones.....copery hair according to the photo...(something with the eyes, eyebrauws en lips) a habbit of going missing..has a habbit of alcohol and prescription drug abuse....dissabled (not sure mental or fysic they dont mension that) I,m just not sure about the chin...can a person loose that over the years, being ill or the result of being abusive...also you can not see that on the morque photos....and how did she get the expensive clothing, the only thing I can think of she was in a shelter or something alike and somebody died and they gave the clothes to charity...(when my mother died she had very expensive clothes Claudia Strater and they went everywhere, and she get them from a friend who's wife died..so the thing with the clothes are always difficult)
The hight is al little bit off 5'3" UID 5'0"

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/elms_barbara.html
http://www.iowaonline.state.ia.us/mpic/Controller.aspx?cmd=personDetailCommand&id=16916

 

[Bit of hope]

Marjorie West's sister at age 65. They looked very much alike. I don't see a resemblance with our Annandale UID

 

[dogperson]

I tried glancing through the thread for a rule-out list and haven't come across it yet. Has this missing person been considered or ruled out?
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/evans_mary.html

Stats would match up nicely. She went missing 10 years prior but if she went missing intentionally, that would explain a lot. Both of them sound like ladies who took care of their appearance.