Identified! VA - Annandale, WhtFem 245UFVA, ~60, 'NO CODE, DNR, No Penicillin', Dec'96

[tschlottman]

Yes, that building is the caretakers house and office as well. The caretaker lived in the basement. I do not know if they have a current caretaker that lives there or not - I haven't seem anyone in a while. There was a caretaker living there in 96 but the only info I can provide is he was a little creepy. My friend who was the groundskeeper didn't converse with him much and would just say that he had some "mental issues". The most contact I ever had with him was saying hi in passing and he would usually just stare at me in response. The cemetery is very dark at night and has no lighting so no one would have noticed her. It's even difficult to see where you're going with your headlights on if it's cloudy out with no moonlight.

It would be great if someone were to figure out who she was but I'd be very surprised if it ever happened. People come and go so much in this area from all over the world due to all the government jobs here. It's always possible that her family worked in the govt and she came here with them years ago and came back to kill herself. You can never tell what crazy ideas are going through someones head when they are planning on killing themselves.

 

[CarlK90245]

I'm having a 2nd set of eyes look at the PM pic. Either they'll let you know what they think (which if you're reading this go ahead and share your opinion!!) or I'll let you know what they say IF its ok.

I'm the "second set of eyes" to whom Astridxx is referring.

For various reasons, this is a tough compare. The two photos of JG aren't really clear. The PM photo of the Jane Doe is clear, but there is significant postmortem sagging of the facial features.

Having said that, here are a few observations:

(1) The Jane Doe's nose seems to be a little longer, and sits slightly lower on her face. It also seems a little flatter (both at the dorsum, and at the tip), though that might be the result of postmortem effects (especially at the tip). I superimposed the two photos, and though the slightly different angles prevent a perfect comparison, Jane Doe seems to have a longer nose and lower-positioned nostrils.

(2) Unfortunately, we can't see Jane Doe's neck. The MP poster photo of JG appears to show a mole on the middle of her neck, which would probably remain there until her death. (The kitchen photo is not clear enough to verify). There also might be a mole on the right side of her upper lip, just above the lip. Jane Doe might have a similar mole, but I can't be sure because of the bodily fluids under her nose.

(3) The glasses in JG's two photos prevent a good comparison of the bridges of their noses. That is one of my favorite means of comparing faces.

(4) Their hairlines on the right temple are similar.

(5) The glasses (shown in the NamUs UP casefile) look pretty close. I thought there was a clearer photo of Jane Doe's glasses, but all I can find is the slightly blurred photo in DoeNet and NamUs. Jane Doe's glasses don't appear to have tiny white-metallic hinges like you can see on JG's glasses. In both photos of JG, you can see tiny metallic rectangles where the hinges attach to the frames. Also, the bridge of Jane Doe's glasses seem to sit a little higher. I can't be sure (on either the hinges or the bridge) due to the photo quality and photo angles.

If I was forced to make a definitive yes or no, I'd say no because of the noses. But they are definitely close enough to warrant a positive verification.

fftopic:
BTW, if any of you are having trouble viewing photos because your browsers don't allow you to zoom-in close enough, I suggest that you go to load the Virtual Magnifying Glass onto your computer.

The free download can be found at the following link.
http://magnifier.sourceforge.net/

 

[astridxx]

Yeah that was my biggest problem: the tip near the nostrils.

 

[astridxx]

Now that i compare a little more you're right. JD's nose is just a little longer.

Take a look at this though: http://www.carolinafacialplasticsurgery.com/does-your-nose-grow-with-age/

"Does the nose grow with age?
The answer to the question is both yes and no. As one ages the nose does not grow, but it changes in shape, which often makes the nose appear larger.
As the support of the nasal tip weakens and the nose begins to fall, the nose appears longer from the side or profile view. Additionally, it will make an existing nasal hump appear larger or cause a small hump to appear as the tip falls."

We have very few clear pictures of JG -- the one of her and her husband is from 1988 -- +8 years and it's possible her nose started drooping a little.

 

[Iluminada]

I found the juice mentioned in video it's made in Belgium by Tropicana
http://shopuncleharrys.dukestores.d...page=product_info&cPath=2_46&products_id=3167
any one know where any international sellers would be in that area?
it's a popular european product

This on-line stores is saying they are out of business, but the site is still open to look at. What I noticed, and it may not be anything connected, was the Duke University Medical supplies that they sold. Someone mentioned that this woman may have been sick with cancer, by her short hair. Maybe someone that she loved was sick and didn't survive like her husband.

She surrounded herself with things she enjoyed, she was neat in appearance, and seems to have enjoyed life and took care of herself, the comic tapes, christmas, clothing (very conservative), wedding ring, and the prayer.

Maybe they had to do an autopsy on her, although she didn't wish this. The C-Section shows there was a baby. An autopsy would show if she had cancer or any other life threatening illness and if there was treatment done.


What surprises me though is that if there was a husband, and if he passed away, why did she not want to be near him in death. She was found in a cemetary, yes, but not near a grave fitting a husband. Perhaps there was a husband and he was cremated and it didn't matter where she died as long as her soul was with him. Perhaps in the end, she had no money left to do anythiing other than what she planned out. Funerals cost a lot and maybe she was unable to give her husband a proper burial. Otherwise they would be together. I'm just guessing now.

She looks like someone from the New England area to me. Sometimes in retirement people move further south and then get sick. They are away from family and friends. Sometimes they lose contact with people and if there are no living immediate family members they can be forgotten about.

 

[astridxx]

I can tell you all with absolute certainty that absolutely no autopsy was done on the body. I got this info from the lead detective himself.

 

[tschlottman]

Have you contacted the ME's office. The death would have been investigated by them...

 

[astridxx]

Have you contacted the ME's office. The death would have been investigated by them...

Medical Examiner? No. Fairfax County paid for her cremation. Like I said, the lead detective on the case is on record as saying "we did not have an autopsy done on her, though I wish we had."


All we can do is wait until the comparison comes back from NY/VA. Hopefully it won't take long. If it's not JG then I give up. I've cruised CP, Namus and DN and haven't found any other likely matches.

 

[tschlottman]

In VA the ME is required to investigate the death in her circumstances. Of course they are also allowed to pick and choose who they provide info to in cases like hers as well. I may be going to their office next month with my friend to see if he can get a copy of his Dad's report. I'm just not sure what they would have her listed under.

Pursuant to § 32.1-283 of the Code of Virginia, all of the following deaths are investigated by the OCME:

any death from trauma, injury, violence, or poisoning attributable to accident, suicide or homicide;
sudden deaths to persons in apparent good health or deaths unattended by a physician;
deaths of persons in jail, prison, or another correctional institution, or in police custody (this includes deaths from legal intervention);
deaths of patients/residents of state mental health or mental retardation facilities;
the sudden death of any infant less than eighteen months of age whose death might be attributable to Sudden Infant Death Syndrome; and
any other suspicious, unusual, or unnatural death.

 

[ThePhantom]

Please don't give up AstridXX!! There's a reason we feel compelled to help identify this person. I was so grateful to find that so much work is still being done on her case. Thank you and thanks to all the Websleuth investigators who feel Jane Doe deserved more than to just leave this world anonymously.

 

[carbuff]

If it's not JG, it's probably someone very like her.

 

[astridxx]

In VA the ME is required to investigate the death in her circumstances. Of course they are also allowed to pick and choose who they provide info to in cases like hers as well. I may be going to their office next month with my friend to see if he can get a copy of his Dad's report. I'm just not sure what they would have her listed under.

Pursuant to § 32.1-283 of the Code of Virginia, all of the following deaths are investigated by the OCME:

any death from trauma, injury, violence, or poisoning attributable to accident, suicide or homicide;
sudden deaths to persons in apparent good health or deaths unattended by a physician;
deaths of persons in jail, prison, or another correctional institution, or in police custody (this includes deaths from legal intervention);
deaths of patients/residents of state mental health or mental retardation facilities;
the sudden death of any infant less than eighteen months of age whose death might be attributable to Sudden Infant Death Syndrome; and
any other suspicious, unusual, or unnatural death.

This code was amended in 1993 and then again in 2002. It says no where that an autopsy is mandatory to be performed on anyone, at any time, under any circumstance. Why would the police lie about having an autopsy? They can't release it to the public without a subpoena but why wouldn't they at least the primary cause of death if they had it? There is no way any of us could get our hands on an autopsy report, IF there even was one.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Please don't give up AstridXX!! There's a reason we feel compelled to help identify this person. I was so grateful to find that so much work is still being done on her case. Thank you and thanks to all the Websleuth investigators who feel Jane Doe deserved more than to just leave this world anonymously.

Yes Astridxx, don't give up! I really do think you've found her. Age does make our noses grow longer, and we tend to look different in death. They glam us up at the funeral parlour. Death is not a pretty business. I am sticking to my opinion that you have found her. Guess we'll see!

 

[astridxx]

Yes Astridxx, don't give up! I really do think you've found her. Age does make our noses grow longer, and we tend to look different in death. They glam us up at the funeral parlour. Death is not a pretty business. I am sticking to my opinion that you have found her. Guess we'll see!

Oh girl she was far from glamorous in the PM pic. The pic was taken like immediately after she was found, blood, vomit and saggy skin

 

[rosesfromangels]

Oh girl she was far from glamorous in the PM pic. The pic was taken like immediately after she was found, blood, vomit and saggy skin

Yes, I saw the PM picture. I meant they glam us up at the funeral parlour to look all spiffy for the funeral (if one is conducted). I would agree that Judith, or JD as the case may be, (although I *do* think it's Judith), wasn't looking her best. Oh well, hopefully she's in Heaven doing the jitterbug or lindy hop with her beloved hubby.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

Well, JG and the Jane Doe both have prints and dentals available. We'll know very soon.

 

[Babyslims]

Sorry if this is a repost. I have came across this woman before but do not remember seeing images of her in color. Her age is off and so is weight but I think she looks a little fluffier than 98lbs in the 2nd link. I think some of the images that are in color look similar to the newer blurry pic that has been posted.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/show/14689

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/photos/full/26811

 

[astridxx]

I like the circumstances babyslims but she's too skinny and old. The c-section scar pic on JD shows a well fed tummy.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

I'm the "second set of eyes" to whom Astridxx is referring.


(5) The glasses (shown in the NamUs UP casefile) look pretty close. I thought there was a clearer photo of Jane Doe's glasses, but all I can find is the slightly blurred photo in DoeNet and NamUs. Jane Doe's glasses don't appear to have tiny white-metallic hinges like you can see on JG's glasses. In both photos of JG, you can see tiny metallic rectangles where the hinges attach to the frames. Also, the bridge of Jane Doe's glasses seem to sit a little higher. I can't be sure (on either the hinges or the bridge) due to the photo quality and photo angles.

Here are the glasses.

 

[astridxx]

In all fairness people CAN buy new glasses and often do LOL