VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #1

[forgottencash]

It seems the police have all but said that everyone except the father was in some state of decomposition so I think it likely that the 3 were killed at about the same time and the Dad later. He was the only one identifiable without further investigation. I know mutilation could result in that but I think it was decomposition too.

With regard to motive, I have read that jealousy is one of the leading causes of murder and the leading cause of murder between spouses and those in relationships. It is a very destructive emotion and one that many people don't handle well - even those who seem to be otherwise healthy. I don't find it hard to believe that a damaged kid with no real support system and no coping skills to speak of could kill because of jealousy and rejection. It could be that simple and that complicated. What he did to the bodies during or after - that is something else entirely.

 

[absynthminded1]

I tend to think that once he got started on killing he already had the 'tools in his toolbox' of a brain to keep going and going and going and making the crime more and more elaborate until he painted himself into a virtual corner.

Does anyone see his behavior at the arrest as sort of, 'come to terms' with what he has done? kinda like... yeah.. you caught me.. yeah.. I did it... whatever.... with no thought of what consequences he will pay in the very near future for all the life he has raped from mother earth in the murder of all these people!

I think he's a little more calculating than some give him credit for. He had to put himself in a strategic position to kill 4 people, with use of only whatever bludgeoning object(s) he got a hold of. I doubt he just went ape **** and started swinging at all 4 people in the room. I'm guessing it was more of a divide and conquer strategy, though I am not sure how he would have accomplished this without raising someone's suspicion (namely, the huge amounts of blood that would have been on his clothes.) I guess he could have taken the 3 women out and changed, waited for the father....

He answered the door for police 2 times, one of which he actually placed the call. He was cool enough to get through both occurrences without drawing their suspicion. He then had casual conversations with multiple people while smelling like a dead animal, even making jokes about his murdered girlfriend as if she was alive, which is not something a person with the normal capacity for empathy could pull off. I'm sure he peppered each of his conversations with comments like, "I had to take care of some business," they've just been overlooked so far.

This kid idolized David Berkowitz, so he was surely well versed in the art of playing head games. I'm sure it made him feel superior and in complete control, as well as provided him with a sick satisfaction.

This is one cool customer AKA budding sociopathic personality. Well, I guess it's safe to say he blossomed and realized his potential.

 

[thesaint]

One question Melanie's mother could provide some insight into is when she spoke with the father Thursday afternoon and she likely asked him

"When did you last speak with Emma, your wife, Melanie or anyone at the house?"

What was pastor-father Mark's answer?

He dropped them off Sunday night at the house, was that the last time he spoke with any of them, or tried to contact them? Seems inconsistent with a father who goes to the such lengths as driving his daughter all over the country to these events.

He could've talked to them on Monday as well.

But then Tuesday, Wednesday?

Maybe Sam had their cell phones and if one of the girls other parents called and left a voice mail, he could look at a previous text they'd sent in their phone and send something with a similar tone, to reassure the other parents that everything was alright.

A good thing for investigators is that the cell phone providers keep all text messages, even the ones users have deleted, for 7 days. They might even keep voice mails that long as well.

 

[KindraLore]

I think he's a little more calculating than some give him credit for. He had to put himself in a strategic position to kill 4 people, with use of only whatever bludgeoning object(s) he got a hold of. I doubt he just went ape **** and started swinging at all 4 people in the room. I'm guessing it was more of a divide and conquer strategy, though I am not sure how he would have accomplished this without raising someone's suspicion (namely, the huge amounts of blood that would have been on his clothes.) I guess he could have taken the 3 women out and changed, waited for the father....

He answered the door for police 2 times, one of which he actually placed the call. He was cool enough to get through both occurrences without drawing their suspicion. He then had casual conversations with multiple people while smelling like a dead animal, even making jokes about his murdered girlfriend as if she was alive, which is not something a person with the normal capacity for empathy could pull off. I'm sure he peppered each of his conversations with comments like, "I had to take care of some business," they've just been overlooked so far.

This kid idolized David Berkowitz, so he was surely well versed in the art of playing head games. I'm sure it made him feel superior and in complete control, as well as provided him with a sick satisfaction.

This is one cool customer AKA budding sociopathic personality. Well, I guess it's safe to say he blossomed and realized his potential.

The bold is mine.. He did absolutely that. I posted a link in which he spoke with the guy at Huddle House and the guy asked him what brought him there. He said those exact words.

I too wonder how someone can bludgeon that many people without them fighting back. Were they sleeping? If not I think that it could not have been all at once as far as the two girls and the mother or they would have fought back. Maybe the mother was not at home and he killed Mel and Emma first.. but although they are girls, if he was hitting one, it seems to me the other would jump in and try and help. It will be interesting what the evidence says. I also wondered if the "hickeys" may not have been some sort of defensive wounds and when the tow truck driver deemed them hickeys he gladly went along with it.

 

[JoeFromLB]

Another Don Rimer case link:

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_...ach_occult_expert_heads_to_farmville_20090924

[/B]

Quoted from the article you linked (and bolded by me):
Speaking only to WAVY.com, Rimer says what magnified the terrifying scene was where investigators found the bodies of husband and wife Debra Kelley and Mark Neiderbrock, their teenage daughter Emma, and her friend, Melanie Wells. Strange symbols were also found in the home.
"They were satanic in nature," said Rimer. /quote


I hadn't heard about the location of the bodies before, and how that could have "magnified the terrifying scene". What's that all about???

I don't even want to speculate right now...

 

[JoeFromLB]

The bold is mine.. He did absolutely that. I posted a link in which he spoke with the guy at Huddle House and the guy asked him what brought him there. He said those exact words.

I too wonder how someone can bludgeon that many people without them fighting back. Were they sleeping? If not I think that it could not have been all at once as far as the two girls and the mother or they would have fought back. Maybe the mother was not at home and he killed Mel and Emma first.. but although they are girls, if he was hitting one, it seems to me the other would jump in and try and help. It will be interesting what the evidence says. I also wondered if the "hickeys" may not have been some sort of defensive wounds and when the tow truck driver deemed them hickeys he gladly went along with it.

About ten years ago we had a case here in southern California where a man killed his wife, his son, the son's friend, his sister-in-law, and the SIL's young daughter, all with blows over the head from one or more large champagne bottles.

Apparently he killed his wife first in one part of the house, then the SIL and her daughter, who were found together, I think. The little girl was only about six, I recall, so she wouldn't have been able to fight back.
The man waited for many hours in the house before ambushing his son and the friend as they walked in the front door that evening, completely unsuspecting. As the police explained it, he knocked them out with sudden blows to the head as they entered the house and kept hitting them until they were dead. They were caught totally off-guard and did not have time to react. Then the man jumped to his death from a freeway overpass. A horrible case.

I remember the police were puzzled at first by how he was able to do it single-handedly, but then the timeline became clearer and everything fell into place.

 

[Nikolai]

Man, but he looks all of 14 yrs old!

And, Emma was a beautiful girl, not just pretty. I think Sam was devastated when she became enamored with the other fellow and this is a case of jealous rage which his sick obsession gave him license to take to a horrific extreme.

If, as others have suggested, this was all planned out then it was done for PR, not satanic reasons. JMHO of course.

Im pretty much with you. If I had to guess now Id go with him getting angry with his girlfriend over an argument, breakup, jealousy. This is a kid who doesnt seem like the most popular kid growing up, this might have even been his first girlfriend. It can be pretty devastating when youre young and you lose a girl you really like, it can seem like the world is ending because youre so young and inexperienced you dont realize how insignificant it really is.

And its the murder of a young girl by her young boyfriend, know what Im sayin? LE is probably going through all emails and interviewing everyone, anything to see if he couldve been upset with her about something.

Sean Sellers was a "satan worshipper" who killed his parents and said he was possessed by demons. But he also had a bad relationship and was angry with his parents. He killed a store clerk as well saying the same thing. But the store clerk also refused to sell him beer. I think the question becomes would Sellers have committed the same murder to those he got angry at were he not involved in satanism. I think the same sort of question will be asked about McCroskey. (Sellers was a 16 year old who was sentenced to death and executed in Oklahoma, its an interesting case if anybody wants to read about it below.)

http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/US/sellers512.htm

If the murders were planned I believe it was over the same sort of thing. This relationship was almost entirely long distance and on the internet. Who knows, something he saw on the internet could have made him angry and then he couldve planned it. Im guessing it wasnt planned.

 

[Heroine]

Okay, believe it or not I looked up how long hickeys last and, apparently, they can last up to a week or even longer. It depends on the person and how fast he or she heals. So Sam could have received them before the show.

I agree that the marks on his neck look more like razor rash than hickeys.

Couldn't this have easily been marks from someones fight to stay alive rather than hickeys?:waitasec:

 

[Heroine]

I think that the default pic is a close up from his Syko Sam page which is now offline

However you can still (for a short time only) see a thumbnail of it on the cached version of his Lildemondog page. Look at his #1 Friend in his "Friend Space"

http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cach...om/lildemondog+lildemondog&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk

I am also uploading a screen grab for when that Cache no longer works...

I think it is a photo of SAM with a gas mask on...

Call me crazy, but is it just me or did raggdolls picture change on her myspace page, on "syko sam's page I mean of course. The picture was of her and mell right? Now its just one of her when you click the link above to lildemondogs page.

 

[Heroine]

Sam's last log in on this myspace page is 14 September (probably before the murders). Shows his mood as "super excited"
http://www.myspace.com/lildemondog_wir

His last log in on this page is 18 September, the day the bodies were discovered. Shows his mood as "determined"
http://www.myspace.com/lildemondog

Melanie's last log is was 15 September. Her mood was "havin a blast" and her icons showed little hearts floating
http://www.myspace.com/stabwound_orgasm

Emma's last log in was 14 September. Her mood was blazenBamBooka (which I do not understand). The icon was an unhappy face...hmmm

When I check out the cache of melanies page this is what i get....this is copied and pasted so you may have to read in between all the codes etc...


SFTW was ****in amazing, back in Virginia now, be back in West Virginia on Wednesday. I MISS EVERYONE!!!Mood: havin a blast havin a blastPosted at 2:43 AM Sep 14 view more

View My:

* Photos
* Videos
* Blog
* Reviews

*
Melanie Wells
* 18 / Female
* The Grotto, Martinsburg, Berryville, West Virginia, US
* Last Login: 9/14/2009
I too live in VA so maybe this is the accurate time of her last log in.

 

[JoeFromLB]

In looking for a "personal" motive for the killings, there is also the possibility that he may have felt upset by something else that happened at the "concert" in Michigan. There was some speculation previously that he may have been embarrassed or "put down" in front of some of the horrorcore gang, and felt his reputation in the "community" might have been damaged. There may have been a personal insult that enraged him and made hm want to "get even"...show them who they were really dealing with!

This was a kid who spent vast amounts of time creating and refining his sick "music". This was no ordinary hobby. He had been pursuing it obsessively for years, and looking at his videos, etc., this guy was extremely serious about what he was doing. Reports indicate he spent most of his time in his room and on the computer. No job, no school, almost nothing but horrorcore. He wanted to be a star in this genre, and apparently was working his way up quickly.

A blow to his reputation in the area he staked so much of his life on might be more devastating than a "romantic" rejection. I wonder if he murdered these people as a way of impressing his friends and associates, and asserting his power and capabilities so they would take him seriously, or even consider him a 'hero' of sorts. He might even think it would make him a legend. When the horrible details finally emerged, "Syko Sam" would be known as a man to be reckoned with!

 

[Heroine]

In looking for a "personal" motive for the killings, there is also the possibility that he may have felt upset by something else that happened at the "concert" in Michigan. There was some speculation previously that he may have been embarrassed or "put down" in front of some of the horrorcore gang, and felt his reputation in the "community" might have been damaged. There may have been a personal insult that enraged him and made hm want to "get even"...show them who they were really dealing with!

This was a kid who spent vast amounts of time creating and refining his sick "music". This was no ordinary hobby. He had been pursuing it obsessively for years, and looking at his videos, etc., this guy was extremely serious about what he was doing. Reports indicate he spent most of his time in his room and on the computer. No job, no school, almost nothing but horrorcore. He wanted to be a star in this genre, and apparently was working his way up quickly.

A blow to his reputation in the area he staked so much of his life on might be more devastating than a "romantic" rejection. I wonder if he murdered these people as a way of impressing his friends and associates, and asserting his power and capabilities so they would take him seriously, or even consider him a 'hero' of sorts. He might even think it would make him a legend. When the horrible details finally emerged, "Syko Sam" would be known as a man to be reckoned with!

i think I may have just found a motive..... this is a post that Emma made to this guy...
http://www.myspace.com/kuriuz
on sept. 15 ....

Sep 15 2009 4:57 AM

BOYYYYYYYYYY! i miss you
lol
and mannnn move me up on ur TOP
****in hatin on doll.. lol
luhhhh you boy!
:waitasec:

 

[Gene]

I also wondered if the "hickeys" may not have been some sort of defensive wounds and when the tow truck driver deemed them hickeys he gladly went along with it.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/crime/article/FARM27_20090926-221606/295789/


It was not only the tow truck driver who commented on hickeys it was also Andres Shrim (AKA SickTanick)

Shrim remembers having a soda with McCroskey on the motel balcony, and he ribbed McCroskey about the hickies on his neck. "He just kind of giggled," Shrim said.

Now while Shrims statement might not carry much weight on this board, there were at least 80 other people who saw McCroskey at the festival and would have seen the marks on his neck. I can see no reason Shrim would lie about it.

When I have seen hickeys on someone's neck, I generally know that they are hickeys. Hickeys are a bruise. A bruise looks alot different than a razor burn or any other kind of skin irritation.

As for them being a defensive wound, someone defending themselves would most likely go for the eyes or some part of the face rather than the front of the neck.

 

[Nikolai]

I think he's a little more calculating than some give him credit for. He had to put himself in a strategic position to kill 4 people, with use of only whatever bludgeoning object(s) he got a hold of. I doubt he just went ape **** and started swinging at all 4 people in the room. I'm guessing it was more of a divide and conquer strategy, though I am not sure how he would have accomplished this without raising someone's suspicion (namely, the huge amounts of blood that would have been on his clothes.) I guess he could have taken the 3 women out and changed, waited for the father....

Yea, he did put some thought into it. Maybe he waited until the mom was at work or gone somewhere. Then maybe one of the girls left for some reason, who knows.

More confusing is how that guy in Georgia killed 8 people in a trailer-home.

 

[Gene]

i think I may have just found a motive..... this is a post that Emma made to this guy...
http://www.myspace.com/kuriuz
on sept. 15 ....

Sep 15 2009 4:57 AM

BOYYYYYYYYYY! i miss you
lol
and mannnn move me up on ur TOP
****in hatin on doll.. lol
luhhhh you boy!
:waitasec:

Hi Heroine:

That is an interesting post. It also seems to be one of Emma's last posts.

That was posted by Forgotten Cash a couple of days ago:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Four People Murdered in VA College Town

 

[Nikolai]

Heres an article of someone who knew the 2 young girls and McCroskey. She was friends with them on the internet and met them at the concert they went to. If this girls legit, Emma told her that her and Sam broke up either before or during the concert. She also says Sam and Emmas relationship was a secret until July when he told his friends he was going to see her in Farmville. She says Sam seemed to be hanging around with another girl at the concert.

I will say that it might be a bit embarressing to break the news about a girlfriend you have to your friends telling them you are seeing her at this concert, and then her dumping you when you meet with her. Also McCroskey didnt tell that Andres Shrim guy they broke up, so either they werent broke up by that point or he was embarressed.

http://www.wtvr.com/wtvr-farmville-jennifer-nelson-concert,0,1880278.story

"" I hung out with Emma and Melanie a lot of the night, and then I'd sees Sam and I talked to him for a second, and then I went back with Emma and Mel and I was like "where's Sam?", and she was like "I don't know" and I was like "whoa, what's wrong?", and she said "we broke up". Everybody was having fun so I didn't want to push her into asking what happened... She didn't seem upset. She didn't seem sad or mad about it... And she didn't seem to care that he was hanging out with this other girl either".

 

[Heroine]

Hi Heroine:

That is an interesting post. It also seems to be one of Emma's last posts.

That was posted by Forgotten Cash a couple of days ago:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Four People Murdered in VA College Town

Ahhh...sorry, there are so many posts it's hard to go through it all, and here I thought I had found something new....haha

 

[Heroine]

Heres an article of someone who knew the 2 young girls and McCroskey. She was friends with them on the internet and met them at the concert they went to. If this girls legit, Emma told her that her and Sam broke up either before or during the concert. She also says Sam and Emmas relationship was a secret until July when he told his friends he was going to see her in Farmville. She says Sam seemed to be hanging around with another girl at the concert.

I will say that it might be a bit embarressing to break the news about a girlfriend you have to your friends telling them you are seeing her at this concert, and then her dumping you when you meet with her. Also McCroskey didnt tell that Andres Shrim guy they broke up, so either they werent broke up by that point or he was embarressed.

http://www.wtvr.com/wtvr-farmville-jennifer-nelson-concert,0,1880278.story

"" I hung out with Emma and Melanie a lot of the night, and then I'd sees Sam and I talked to him for a second, and then I went back with Emma and Mel and I was like "where's Sam?", and she was like "I don't know" and I was like "whoa, what's wrong?", and she said "we broke up". Everybody was having fun so I didn't want to push her into asking what happened... She didn't seem upset. She didn't seem sad or mad about it... And she didn't seem to care that he was hanging out with this other girl either".

Well I think this and one of emmas last posts answers most of the motive questions most definitely.

 

[Nikolai]

Well I think this and one of emmas last posts answers most of the motive questions most definitely.

If he was talking to his friends about this new girlfriend and how excited he was meeting her for this concert, and even worse, if his friends were talking about it, I could see being a little upset(and a lot embarressed) when you get there and she hits the dump button on you. Ouch. With this guys fascination with murder it wasnt a good move letting him stay at your house after breaking up with him. She's so young though, I wonder if the parents knew.

 

[Gene]

Call me crazy, but is it just me or did raggdolls picture change on her myspace page, on "syko sam's page I mean of course. The picture was of her and mell right? Now its just one of her when you click the link above to lildemondogs page.

You are not crazy. Emma changed her picture.

What you saw was a cached version of Sam's page. Google took a snapshot of it on 12 September and stored it. Then Emma changed her photo some time before she died, but before Google had a chance to change the cached version. The photos change even on the older posts. But not in the cached version. So, Emma changed her photo between 12 September when the Cache was made and 15 September or so...when she died.

By the way, what I now notice in that cached version of 12 September is that he logged in on 9 September. His mood was still set to Super Excited. He did not change it...it does not say conclusively, but it is a hint that things were probably still going well to that point.