VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #2

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Theres a robbery/murder in the bad parts of major cities everyday by a young poor person who is very much into violent rap music, though different from horrorcore, do you believe the music plays the same "and" role in those cases?

Yep. I think negative influences incline one toward negative behavior. I've felt that rap was bad, negative, sending the wrong message etc. I don't think it should be banned, I'm all for free speech, but just because it's legal doesn't make it good and doesn't make it completely free from blame for some of the ills of our young lost people who don't have other contrary role models to balance the act.
 
Yep. I think negative influences incline one toward negative behavior. I've felt that rap was bad, negative, sending the wrong message etc. I don't think it should be banned, I'm all for free speech, but just because it's legal doesn't make it good and doesn't make it completely free from blame for some of the ills of our young lost people who don't have other contrary role models to balance the act.

Arguably some of the music would be protected as religious speech. A lot of it is all about Satan after all, and Satanism is a recognized religion.
 
I had an experience with NLP a few years back. I was a member of another online community and one other member of the community was a member of the pick up scene. He bragged about his exploits and a number of us were pretty skeptical until he explained in some detail what his techniques were. Turns out this guy's day job was in the web design world and his employer pitched some work to a former employer of mine. Shortly after I joined the company, they approached me explaining that they wanted to hire this firm to do some work...at a rate of over $150,000 per month. And this was for some time from the principal (who is relatively famous) and one senior consultant (who was the NLP pick up expert) and was not expected to produce actual working software or interfaces.

I revealed what I knew about this guy to my employer who eventually decided against hiring them. I also pointed out that we could hire a web department for a year for that sort of money. What was fascinating was the initial extremely hostile reaction I got when I criticized this guy. It was way way out of proportion to the event, which was that I said that price seemed "steep". I believe was due to the programming this guy had done on them during the pitch meeting. A few months later my employer came and thanked me for telling him not enter the agreement.

Just like anything, NLP can be used for good and for bad. It's very real and very effective, hence our CIA involvement. (I used it to train for competitions).
We all know subliminal messages are also effective and that is what negative dark music of any kind is doing. To me, it poisons the brain, the thoughts, lowers the bar on morality of any kind, and desensitizes our human compassionate side, which we do NOT need in this country. That kind of influence in an already unstable, emotionally disturbed kid is just gas for the fire. I don't think Sam had any real good positive influences to balance out Satan.

For those of you who want to chide the power of a satanic ritual, I dare you to participate in one. I believe it opens a door to dark forces, but that's just me and my spiritual-being-think. You can talk about how this is just gimmick but I don't believe for one second it is.

I think horror movies are OK for teenagers who need the thrill, but I do believe one should grow out of that once you realize how horrible life really is and how awful murder, rape and the other felonies effect the living who have to actually go through them. Being on this board and seeing the horror of real life, I don't feel I have any business supporting those artistic endeavors and treating that kind of material as a joke, nor do I need a movie to scare the wits out of me...getting on the freeway everyday is enough thanks.:D
 
Yep. I think negative influences incline one toward negative behavior. I've felt that rap was bad, negative, sending the wrong message etc. I don't think it should be banned, I'm all for free speech, but just because it's legal doesn't make it good and doesn't make it completely free from blame for some of the ills of our young lost people who don't have other contrary role models to balance the act.

Everything that happens to a human throughout their life shapes the person they are. I think pointing to something exact like horrorcore as being a deciding factor on becoming a murderer is a bit much though. I think 99% of all people could listen to horrorcore, watch horror movies, love hunting, and be pathologists, and they would still know murder is wrong and would never harm anybody.

I also dont think the Manson murders compare to this crime at all.
 
The majority of murderers in the world likely had nothing to do with any sort of violent music or entertainment at all. I think people are just born with that kind of violence and hate in them. There were always people we knew as kids and growing up that were just mean and hateful people, even to the point of physically hurting people. And there are those that never show signs of it. These same type of people are going to be the most likely murderers once they have their particular motive to commit it. I think there is nothing we can do about it, people are going to be born with the capability of committing murder.
 
The majority of murderers in the world likely had nothing to do with any sort of violent music or entertainment at all. I think people are just born with that kind of violence and hate in them. There were always people we knew as kids and growing up that were just mean and hateful people, even to the point of physically hurting people. And there are those that never show signs of it. These same type of people are going to be the most likely murderers once they have their particular motive to commit it. I think there is nothing we can do about it, people are going to be born with the capability of committing murder.

I agree certainly about some people being born that way, but I also believe we can grow a killer in this society. It's always a mystery why someone would want to defend something as detrimental to the mind and the ability to be psychologically healthy as horrorcore or satanism in general. Can you give me some insight why you support it so? Maybe your age is a factor and you haven't seen the grisly side of real life enough.

I don't think you can conclusively rule out that this kind of negative entertainment can have a negative effect on someone who might be on the edge or drive some straight to the edge, although they may never jump off.

I don't think it has been shown to be very effective "therapy" which is the excuse many use who are into it. Not exactly approved by the AMA, you know? So if it's not really a good therapy, what's the point if not satanism and how can that be anything but negative????
 
I agree certainly about some people being born that way, but I also believe we can grow a killer in this society. It's always a mystery why someone would want to defend something as detrimental to the mind and the ability to be psychologically healthy as horrorcore or satanism in general. Can you give me some insight why you support it so? Maybe your age is a factor and you haven't seen the grisly side of real life enough.

I don't think you can conclusively rule out that this kind of negative entertainment can have a negative effect on someone who might be on the edge or drive some straight to the edge, although they may never jump off.

I don't think it has been shown to be very effective "therapy" which is the excuse many use who are into it. Not exactly approved by the AMA, you know? So if it's not really a good therapy, what's the point if not satanism and how can that be anything but negative????

According to my research into this area the theory that listening to violent or angry music is therapeutic in some way, known as the "venting" hypothesis, has largely been discredited. There's much better scientific support for the argument that violent music readies the listener for violent action than there is for the "venting" as therapy idea.

But of course we still have the paradox that while violent media has dramatically increased in availablity and intensity, violent crime rates are dropping everywhere around the U.S.
 
The majority of murderers in the world likely had nothing to do with any sort of violent music or entertainment at all. I think people are just born with that kind of violence and hate in them. There were always people we knew as kids and growing up that were just mean and hateful people, even to the point of physically hurting people. And there are those that never show signs of it. These same type of people are going to be the most likely murderers once they have their particular motive to commit it. I think there is nothing we can do about it, people are going to be born with the capability of committing murder.

Almost no one in the U.S. has "nothing to do with any sort of violent entertainment" unfortunately. Most Americans watch TV and almost everyone that watches TV is exposed to violent media of some type. Finding your control group will be difficult.

Your posting also brings to mind Milgram's experiments on authority and the famous Stanford Prison Study in which he found that most people, not rare unique individuals, could be directed to commit terrible acts simply by having someone in authority direct them or because they were playing a specific role in a specific social situation, i.e. pretending to be a prison guard. Milgram initially believed as you do that these properties were unique to specific individuals or cultures, but the science showed otherwise.
 
Almost no one in the U.S. has "nothing to do with any sort of violent entertainment" unfortunately. Most Americans watch TV and almost everyone that watches TV is exposed to violent media of some type. Finding your control group will be difficult.

Your posting also brings to mind Milgram's experiments on authority and the famous Stanford Prison Study in which he found that most people, not rare unique individuals, could be directed to commit terrible acts simply by having someone in authority direct them or because they were playing a specific role in a specific social situation, i.e. pretending to be a prison guard. Milgram initially believed as you do that these properties were unique to specific individuals or cultures, but the science showed otherwise.

way o/t here but that also brings to mind the crazee(s) who make random phonecalls & manipulate strangers into committing unspeakable acts ...
 
way o/t here but that also brings to mind the crazee(s) who make random phonecalls & manipulate strangers into committing unspeakable acts ...

I don't think I know about the specific incidents you are talking about, but I do know a little bit about social engineering techniques and some related things. I have a hard time seeing exactly how what you are describing would work, but I can say with authority that it is possible to get people to do a lot of dumb things with minimal effort.
 
I agree certainly about some people being born that way, but I also believe we can grow a killer in this society. It's always a mystery why someone would want to defend something as detrimental to the mind and the ability to be psychologically healthy as horrorcore or satanism in general. Can you give me some insight why you support it so? Maybe your age is a factor and you haven't seen the grisly side of real life enough.

I don't think you can conclusively rule out that this kind of negative entertainment can have a negative effect on someone who might be on the edge or drive some straight to the edge, although they may never jump off.

I don't think it has been shown to be very effective "therapy" which is the excuse many use who are into it. Not exactly approved by the AMA, you know? So if it's not really a good therapy, what's the point if not satanism and how can that be anything but negative????

I think horrorcore is probably the worst music Ive ever heard, Im not defending it, Im defending it from being used as an excuse and whats seeming like a motive for his actions. Same with satanism, satanism doesnt make a murderer. Thousands of people will have probably committed murder for the same motive as Sam, once its revealed, and they have nothing to do with satanism or horrocore. And I know a lot about grisly crimes, death row and executed prisoners crimes in particular

Most people who listen to horrorcore and claim its therapy are young and dont know what theyre talking about, they just like the music for whatever reason. I dont know why I liked some of the music I listened to in my teens, but I had no real reason for it then. The only reason for negative entertainment is that it entertains some people.
 
Everything that happens to a human throughout their life shapes the person they are. I think pointing to something exact like horrorcore as being a deciding factor on becoming a murderer is a bit much though. I think 99% of all people could listen to horrorcore, watch horror movies, love hunting, and be pathologists, and they would still know murder is wrong and would never harm anybody.

I also dont think the Manson murders compare to this crime at all.

I'm confused as to what you're trying to say because right after you said the above statement you then said....

Originally Posted by Nikolai View Post
The majority of murderers in the world likely had nothing to do with any sort of violent music or entertainment at all. I think people are just born with that kind of violence and hate in them. There were always people we knew as kids and growing up that were just mean and hateful people, even to the point of physically hurting people. And there are those that never show signs of it. These same type of people are going to be the most likely murderers once they have their particular motive to commit it. I think there is nothing we can do about it, people are going to be born with the capability of committing murder.


I have to disagree that some people are born evil. Some people may very well be born with mental disabilities yes, but it's up to society what you teach that person with that disability. For instance, there are 2 children that I know personally who are both very much grown now, but they have a mental disability. One was raised by a very loving and caring mother, who never cursed around him or never showed him any negative influences. The child is 25 now and nice and polite with manners just as you or I. The other on the other hand, was raised by a mother whom had nothing to do with him and when she did show him a little attention it was always something negative. This kid has grown up to be violent, rude and obnoxious in a terrible way. His mother just uses his disability as an excuse for the way he is, when in all reality even mentally challenged people can learn behaviors just as we do, it's what is taught and learned or (in psychological terms) imprinted that matters most.
It's all about what is being implanted into you. As the sayings go, "if you flock with geese, you fly like geese" or "if you lay with dogs, you act like dogs" which ever saying you prefer, there are tons of these sayings.
I'm not saying that people can't be born with chemical imbalances at all, i'm just saying that if you think about it, you never really know someones a murderer until they're grown or at least to the age of some maturity. There aren't many children I know that have killed someone intentionally. Not saying that it doesn't happen but it's very rare. Which leads me to believe that the evil is learned, because it took them that long to learn it.
I have taken abnormal psychology, developmental psychology, and principles of psychology and everyone of them will tell you the same things, just in more technical terms.
People have mental illnesses all the time and never become murderers. I'm not just talking about your typical metal retardation either, i mean as in imbalances in the brain, but I believe it's all about how you're taught to handle situations.

here's the definition of imprinting taken from wikipedia...
Imprinting is the term used in psychology and ethology to describe any kind of phase-sensitive learning (learning occurring at a particular age or a particular life stage) that is rapid and apparently independent of the consequences of behavior. It was first used to describe situations in which an animal or person learns the characteristics of some stimulus, which is therefore said to be "imprinted" onto the subject.
 
I think like anything else it's a combination of how you are born and how you grew up,I think if you are sad and depressed and angry ,it doesn't matter whether you listen to horrorcore or go to church every sunday,some might find horrorcore or church a way out of sadness,depression and anger and some may find messages in either one that makes them more agressive.I know for a fact that violent music was very therapetic for me when I was young and it's to this day the kind of music I need to listen to when I feel helpless and weak.
Earlier I posted something and I guess I put "murder victim" like that and someone asked why I did that and I really have no idea why.I just saw a picture of the minister in front of a bible and the bible had a sword going through it and I thought it was odd.Anyways for me theorizing the murders had to do with skr would be like theorizing maybe Sam found Jesus in those last hours and just as jesus was crucified he had to sacrifice a minister's daughter or something along those lines...it just doesn't kame sense to me.
I could imagine something along those lines much more that Sam indeed was not supposed to stay at their house and the parents had no knowledge of him staying there...i could imagine that emma talked him into getting rid of her parents and maybe later he found out she used him for that purpose and mel just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time...something like that would make more sense to me.
 
I think like anything else it's a combination of how you are born and how you grew up,I think if you are sad and depressed and angry ,it doesn't matter whether you listen to horrorcore or go to church every sunday,some might find horrorcore or church a way out of sadness,depression and anger and some may find messages in either one that makes them more agressive.I know for a fact that violent music was very therapetic for me when I was young and it's to this day the kind of music I need to listen to when I feel helpless and weak.
Earlier I posted something and I guess I put "murder victim" like that and someone asked why I did that and I really have no idea why.I just saw a picture of the minister in front of a bible and the bible had a sword going through it and I thought it was odd.Anyways for me theorizing the murders had to do with skr would be like theorizing maybe Sam found Jesus in those last hours and just as jesus was crucified he had to sacrifice a minister's daughter or something along those lines...it just doesn't kame sense to me.
I could imagine something along those lines much more that Sam indeed was not supposed to stay at their house and the parents had no knowledge of him staying there...i could imagine that emma talked him into getting rid of her parents and maybe later he found out she used him for that purpose and mel just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time...something like that would make more sense to me.

But that makes no sense because from my understandings of the matter, Emmas parents picked him up from the airport and brought him home with them not just 1 time but on 2 occasions, the 2nd being from the concert so the theory that he wasn't supposed to be there is out of the question. If I'm not mistaken.
also just to add my thoughts on music being therapeutic I would have to say that in some ways all music is therapeutic, but for me I have found that if I'm already in a bad mood or depressed a sad, angry, or depressing song only adds to my darkness and sadness, not the other way around as a matter of fact since I started treatment for panic attacks I've been trying to stay away from anything that isn't upbeat or as I would like to think an otherwise happy song.
 
...I thought it was Mel's parents who took them to the concert,I have to read it again.
....but see,so it is different for each person...I cannot stand happy music ....
 
...I thought it was Mel's parents who took them to the concert,I have to read it again.
....but see,so it is different for each person...I cannot stand happy music ....

No it was Emma's parents who took them, you can read all about it in thread 1.
I'd like to add that if you didn't know that bit of crucial information then you definitely should read thread 1 over because if that was that easy for you to miss there's no telling what other damning evidence you skipped over.
 
...oh yes it was emma's parents ! it's confusing how it was worded.Believe me no matter how many times i read something i will miss stuff...did they ever release more information,like who was killed first?...because I know they said one or two people were murdered days before the others?
 
...oh yes it was emma's parents ! it's confusing how it was worded.Believe me no matter how many times i read something i will miss stuff...did they ever release more information,like who was killed first?...because I know they said one or two people were murdered days before the others?

I don't think they've made it official as to whom died first, but I know that the father was killed last and I think at first they were insinuating that the other 3 may have been killed around the same time, but they have changed info time and time again, although it still remains true that the pastor was killed last.
 
I'm confused as to what you're trying to say because right after you said the above statement you then said....

Originally Posted by Nikolai View Post
The majority of murderers in the world likely had nothing to do with any sort of violent music or entertainment at all. I think people are just born with that kind of violence and hate in them. There were always people we knew as kids and growing up that were just mean and hateful people, even to the point of physically hurting people. And there are those that never show signs of it. These same type of people are going to be the most likely murderers once they have their particular motive to commit it. I think there is nothing we can do about it, people are going to be born with the capability of committing murder.


I have to disagree that some people are born evil. Some people may very well be born with mental disabilities yes, but it's up to society what you teach that person with that disability. For instance, there are 2 children that I know personally who are both very much grown now, but they have a mental disability. One was raised by a very loving and caring mother, who never cursed around him or never showed him any negative influences. The child is 25 now and nice and polite with manners just as you or I. The other on the other hand, was raised by a mother whom had nothing to do with him and when she did show him a little attention it was always something negative. This kid has grown up to be violent, rude and obnoxious in a terrible way. His mother just uses his disability as an excuse for the way he is, when in all reality even mentally challenged people can learn behaviors just as we do, it's what is taught and learned or (in psychological terms) imprinted that matters most.
It's all about what is being implanted into you. As the sayings go, "if you flock with geese, you fly like geese" or "if you lay with dogs, you act like dogs" which ever saying you prefer, there are tons of these sayings.
I'm not saying that people can't be born with chemical imbalances at all, i'm just saying that if you think about it, you never really know someones a murderer until they're grown or at least to the age of some maturity. There aren't many children I know that have killed someone intentionally. Not saying that it doesn't happen but it's very rare. Which leads me to believe that the evil is learned, because it took them that long to learn it.
I have taken abnormal psychology, developmental psychology, and principles of psychology and everyone of them will tell you the same things, just in more technical terms.
People have mental illnesses all the time and never become murderers. I'm not just talking about your typical metal retardation either, i mean as in imbalances in the brain, but I believe it's all about how you're taught to handle situations.

here's the definition of imprinting taken from wikipedia...
Imprinting is the term used in psychology and ethology to describe any kind of phase-sensitive learning (learning occurring at a particular age or a particular life stage) that is rapid and apparently independent of the consequences of behavior. It was first used to describe situations in which an animal or person learns the characteristics of some stimulus, which is therefore said to be "imprinted" onto the subject.


Most murderers are sociopaths, they do not have the ability to have emotion or feelings for anyone or anything except themselves. Do you think something such as horrorcore is what turns someone to a sociopath? Sam McCroskey is a sociopath who would have likely killed someone else, probably a female, that he got very angry with even if he had never met Emma or never listened to horrorcore music. Putting so much blame on the "Horrorcore" influence is pretty lame IMO.

Everybodys got an opinion I guess.
 
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