VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #2

[tapu]

Im sorry but that makes far too much sense.

I was going to say it was his armpits. :wink:

 

[dangrsmind]

Yes, I'm sure that's it. The very last thing that ever could have happened is that the clothes we see him in before and after, and that reeked enough to carry the smell strongly far from the origin, and that he was wearing as a guy who regularly did not shower, and sang about loving the smell on him, could have been on him all the time. No way is it going to come out that way, because that is preposterous.

Yes, I previously suggested he might have wanted the smell on him.

We'll have to wait for the forensics reports, but probably you are correct and the stains just aren't easily visible.

 

[dangrsmind]

Probably because he didnt think he needed to leave earlier, and he was strapped for cash. He probably thought he could make it in that house for the whole week. But once Mel's mother started looking for her daughter that plan quickly ended.

When he drove the car he didnt get to the airport, and he didnt know the area, and who really cares because where did he end up getting to and trying to get an early flight to? These points make no point.

I dont know why he called the police to check the basement. I know one reason he didnt call them though, to be caught, because if he wanted that it would have happened. Common sense buddy.

People that don't want to get for crimes they have committed don't call the police.

And again with the personal insults.

 

[tapu]

Yes, I previously suggested he might have wanted the smell on him.

We'll have to wait for the forensics reports, but probably you are correct and the stains just aren't easily visible.

I'm fairly certain at this point that you have previously suggested just about anything anyone else has to suggest that you can't otherwise argue with.

 

[dangrsmind]

Im sorry but that makes far too much sense.

He paid over $100 for a cab to the airport using cash he got from an ATM. He could therefore also afford to have changed his flight. Also there is no report that he attempted to do so, but maybe that will come out later.

He might have gone to Poor House Road to dispose of the murder weapon or other items, but I don't think he was going to the airport. Don't trust my recollections if you don't want to; look the road up yourself and check it out.

He didn't flee the scene of the crime, and he called the police to the murder scene. And yet "common sense" says he didn't want to get caught and spent what must have been a fair amount of work to scrub the brains and blood off his hoodie...

 

[Nikolai]

People that don't want to get for crimes they have committed don't call the police.

And again with the personal insults.

This reply is a personal insult, yyoure right and Im wrong, just like everybody else who disagree with your theories. He called the police because he wanted to be caught, but yet, the police left with out him and then he fled. Once again a point without a point.

And you act so smart but you still dont think there could be any other reason he would call the police that night before fleeing. One easy reason could be that so when police came to question him in Cali he could say he heard things in the house in an attempt to direct blame on an intruder, and he would have that call to police as evidence he really was hearing somebody. That couldnt be possible though? Only thing possible could be he wanted to be caught, yet, he wasnt caught? Ooops:crazy:

 

[tapu]

Dngrsmind, you need to review: Sam wanted to change his flight to be earlier, but he did not have enough money. I guess the cab tapped him out. It is in all the early reports regarding his arrest.

 

[Nikolai]

Don't trust my recollections if you don't want to; look the road up yourself and check it out.

Dont trust my recollections, look where he had the cab take him, yep, the airport.

He had the police right in front of him and he wanted to be caught so so badly, yet, he didnt walk away in cuffs, :waitasec:

Oh yea and then he saw the police later when he got the car stuck, and yet, he walked away free again. hmm.

 

[Nikolai]

Dngrsmind, you need to review: Sam wanted to change his flight to be earlier, but he did not have enough money. I guess the cab tapped him out. It is in all the early reports regarding his arrest.

I was about to say that but I didnt want to go back and read things to make sure. Im positive he tried to get an early flight and they denied him because he didnt have the money. I remember saying that cab ride cost him his early flight earlier, Sams a bonehead.

 

[gxm]

Hi Everyone. I'm back and trying to catch up. Let me know if there's anything important that I've missed.

I googled "death smell transfer" and, apparently the smell of death can transfer to clothes. I also recall that in the Caylee Anthony case, the death smell was still in the car trunk even after her body had been removed, so clearly the death smell can transfer to fabric fibers, whether it's carpet or clothing.

In the absence of available facts, I'm going to guess that Sam brought more than one set of clothes for his visit. Now it could be that he destroyed whatever he was wearing when he murdered the women and, later, the pastor. If so, he might have been down to his last set of clothes. Also, it is only on the last day that people report the excessive smell. The cops that showed up in the early morning hours (for the fake intruder-in-the-basement call) didn't recognize a strong, or death, odor. So what happened between then and later that day that all of a sudden Sam reeks?

I think it's probably a combination of several things. He could have left that morning in clothing that had been kept in close proximity to the dead bodies, and there's a good chance he hadn't bathed in a while (his sister has mentioned that Sam had poor, to the point of smelly, hygiene), and lastly the people who are now being interviewed are associating death with Sam and they may be overstating the stench.

In the end, I just don't think there's anything unusual about there not being blood on his clothes since we don't even know if this is this case. For all we know his clothing has blood residue that the evidence lab is in the process of analyzing. And I don't think it's unusual that the smell of death transferred to his clothing. Especially if he'd slowly adapted to the smell. He may not have even noticed that the smell had transferred to his clothes.

And I apologize in advance, tapu, but I must ask dangrsmind what he's trying to get at with the smell angle.

 

[Nikolai]

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/crime/article/FARM27_20090926-221606/295789/

Yep, he tried to re-book his flight but he had only $50 and it was about $150. And one of the drivers he rode with did describe his smell as a dead animal, you know, just to keep you honest here.

 

[gxm]

"Unattended violent deaths like suicide often involve a great loss of blood and tissue, OPIM (Other Potentially Infectious Materials). The loss of blood and tissue, the environmental conditions, and other circumstances will aid in the production of offensive death scene odors, miasma.

Sometimes miasma lingers because of poor ventilation, Sometimes miasma will linger because it has permeated porous materials: fabrics, paper, wood, and more."

http://www.florida-biohazard-blood-crime-death-cleanup.com/Virginia.html

 

[Heroine]

Hi Everyone. I'm back and trying to catch up. Let me know if there's anything important that I've missed.

I googled "death smell transfer" and, apparently the smell of death can transfer to clothes. I also recall that in the Caylee Anthony case, the death smell was still in the car trunk even after her body had been removed, so clearly the death smell can transfer to fabric fibers, whether it's carpet or clothing.

In the absence of available facts, I'm going to guess that Sam brought more than one set of clothes for his visit. Now it could be that he destroyed whatever he was wearing when he murdered the women and, later, the pastor. If so, he might have been down to his last set of clothes. Also, it is only on the last day that people report the excessive smell. The cops that showed up in the early morning hours (for the fake intruder-in-the-basement call) didn't recognize a strong, or death, odor. So what happened between then and later that day that all of a sudden Sam reeks?

I think it's probably a combination of several things. He could have left that morning in clothing that had been kept in close proximity to the dead bodies, and there's a good chance he hadn't bathed in a while (his sister has mentioned that Sam had poor, to the point of smelly, hygiene), and lastly the people who are now being interviewed are associating death with Sam and they may be overstating the stench.

In the end, I just don't think there's anything unusual about there not being blood on his clothes since we don't even know if this is this case. For all we know his clothing has blood residue that the evidence lab is in the process of analyzing. And I don't think it's unusual that the smell of death transferred to his clothing. Especially if he'd slowly adapted to the smell. He may not have even noticed that the smell had transferred to his clothes.

And I apologize in advance, tapu, but I must ask dangrsmind what he's trying to get at with the smell angle.

Did you catch up on the weapon gxm?
The way I see it is anything with a bad or unique smell carries for long distances especially death. Even if he did take his clothes off while killing them then washed up and put them back on if the clothes were still in the house they would smell like death. Just like I'm sure you guys have known people who had cats or dogs and obviously the owner didn't clean their urine or feces very well and well they smelled like feces.
I also agree on the caylee thing, that trunk still smells like death from what I've read.
Edited to say that I think Sam had the same clothes on the whole time for the concert on out too, unless he did in fact take them off before the murders and put them back on after the fact.
I mean I can't say for a fact that what he did, like I said earlier maybe he washed them and got all the visible blood off of them but because the smell was so bad in there it resaturated his clothes.
I've also been thinking he probably premeditated the murders at least from the concert until that day, so it gave him time to think about exactly how he wanted to do it. One more thing I wanna bring up is if Sam went ahead and left right after the murder of the girls and mother than he could have made it all the way back to CA before anyone would have known, so why did he wait for the father?

 

[gxm]

There are other possibilities...you just have to remember what is fact and what is speculation.

Some possiblities which I beleive are still compatible with the known facts at this stage:

A third party could have committed the crime, someone not associated with SKR possibly.

The father could have done it and Sam then killed the father.

The girls could have been involved somehow.

I am not arguing for any of these theories, just pointing out the limitations of the known facts.

I really have to disagree that the father could have killed the women and then Sam killed him. It really doesn't fit the timeline and why on earth would the pastor have gone back to the house, unarmed, if he was in fact the killer who for some bizarre reason had left Sam alive. The pastor went to the house looking for Mel because he didn't know that she was dead.

And the fact that Sam lied about Mel's whereabouts as she lay dead in the house is pretty damning, IMO. He knew perfectly well where she was, and it wasn't at the movies.

 

[gxm]

Thanks for the tip on the weapon, Heroine. I'm catching up on it now.

 

[gxm]

Hmm... let me think about that.... Why do you think he would smell that strong of rotting bodies? Just from being around them? He would, like, carry the pheromones or whatever clear to where he wrecked a car, rode in cars, ate at a restaurant, and slept in an airport? Because I'm thinking he might have had actual DNA in the solid/once liquid form right there on those clothes. I guess it could be like lingering fabric softener scent, though, if he stood near the bodies close enough and for a long while...?

Well, it's interesting to note that the cops who found him after he wrecked the car didn't notice a "death odor." Apparently, Sam didn't start smelling until he got into that fellow's pick up truck. Which is why I think some of the witnesses are attributing the odor to the "smell of death" in hindsight.

 

[gxm]

1. Standby costs zero.

2. He doesn't know how to use Google Maps? He can't call the airport and ask directions? Poor House Road isn't even vaguely in the right direction if I recall correctly.

3. Possible and plausible.

IIRC, witnesses state that Sam said he hadn't slept in days. It's very likely he was suffering from sleep deprivation at this point and was behaving even more idiotically erratically than normal.

 

[dangrsmind]

Well, it's interesting to note that the cops who found him after he wrecked the car didn't notice a "death odor." Apparently, Sam didn't start smelling until he got into that fellow's pick up truck. Which is why I think some of the witnesses are attributing the odor to the "smell of death" in hindsight.

Indeed. Amazing observation.

 

[dangrsmind]

I really have to disagree that the father could have killed the women and then Sam killed him. It really doesn't fit the timeline and why on earth would the pastor have gone back to the house, unarmed, if he was in fact the killer who for some bizarre reason had left Sam alive. The pastor went to the house looking for Mel because he didn't know that she was dead.

And the fact that Sam lied about Mel's whereabouts as she lay dead in the house is pretty damning, IMO. He knew perfectly well where she was, and it wasn't at the movies.

As I said in the original posting, I am not pushing this theory nor do I believe it. I disagree that it doesn't fit the timeline, but you know I don't care to explain my reasoning any further at this point.

 

[dangrsmind]

Hi Everyone. I'm back and trying to catch up. Let me know if there's anything important that I've missed.

I googled "death smell transfer" and, apparently the smell of death can transfer to clothes. I also recall that in the Caylee Anthony case, the death smell was still in the car trunk even after her body had been removed, so clearly the death smell can transfer to fabric fibers, whether it's carpet or clothing.

In the absence of available facts, I'm going to guess that Sam brought more than one set of clothes for his visit. Now it could be that he destroyed whatever he was wearing when he murdered the women and, later, the pastor. If so, he might have been down to his last set of clothes. Also, it is only on the last day that people report the excessive smell. The cops that showed up in the early morning hours (for the fake intruder-in-the-basement call) didn't recognize a strong, or death, odor. So what happened between then and later that day that all of a sudden Sam reeks?

I think it's probably a combination of several things. He could have left that morning in clothing that had been kept in close proximity to the dead bodies, and there's a good chance he hadn't bathed in a while (his sister has mentioned that Sam had poor, to the point of smelly, hygiene), and lastly the people who are now being interviewed are associating death with Sam and they may be overstating the stench.

In the end, I just don't think there's anything unusual about there not being blood on his clothes since we don't even know if this is this case. For all we know his clothing has blood residue that the evidence lab is in the process of analyzing. And I don't think it's unusual that the smell of death transferred to his clothing. Especially if he'd slowly adapted to the smell. He may not have even noticed that the smell had transferred to his clothes.

And I apologize in advance, tapu, but I must ask dangrsmind what he's trying to get at with the smell angle.

Yes the smell of death can transfer to clothes. But hey I may have just imagined that back when I was dumping a sack of dead rats in a dumpster full of dead sheep, rabbits, monkeys and other unidentifiable beasts. Yup. Must be my imagination.