VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #2

[Kano]

http://www.myspace.com/rellikseven8one

 

[jamesmiller14]

Same here, they just seem silly. Everyone I knows that is into SKR was very excited for the new Jason Friday the 13th movie to come out. I used to watch those on Halloween when I was a child. It gave me goosebumps as a child. Back when night time wasn't just night time. Maybe there could be some crazy guy walking around killing people at night.

Then you grow up, at least some of us do.

Maybe these people still have those feelings from when they were kids. Maybe they miss being kids and are chasing that feeling. I just don't understand why 20+ year old adults still feel like goats of society and have to rebel. Hell, I know one that just had a child and he STILL doesn't have life in the right perspective. It's unreal.

Some people will always be children I guess. I almost kind of envy them.

I stand by what I said before. I don't think Sam fell under some spell or was a puppet to sictanik. I think sictanik would be very proud to see all of the research that has been done, would steal that information and sell it as true. It's certainly much more complex than anything I've ever heard from his material.

 

[dangrsmind]

Rellik 781 is backwards for killer 187.

The spelling just a street gang rip off.. They dont use letters associated with enemys, so bloods spell everything with k's and not c's
In this case i would say the "k" more for killer, since its big in the horror core scene.

Sicktaniks post withe "whipe that dead @#%$ off ya" Also leans into the horror core comunity. Heard it more used with the ones who use the ICP face paint though.

Eh, cant say i ever heard that one.

Yes I figured that out and posted the decoded reversal for 781. It is interesting that 187 is the California radio code for murder and the murderer was from California, however I understand that people outside of California use this reference.

In Hebrew gematria the number 781 corresponds to the word for "a deposit; dung; dung-hill". The word "KILLER" encodes to the number 290 which means, among other things, "trouble" or an "evil spirit".

Remember they call this music the "wicked "?

But hey maybe it's just a coincidence...

 

[dangrsmind]

Same here, they just seem silly. Everyone I knows that is into SKR was very excited for the new Jason Friday the 13th movie to come out. I used to watch those on Halloween when I was a child. It gave me goosebumps as a child. Back when night time wasn't just night time. Maybe there could be some crazy guy walking around killing people at night.

Then you grow up, at least some of us do.

Maybe these people still have those feelings from when they were kids. Maybe they miss being kids and are chasing that feeling. I just don't understand why 20+ year old adults still feel like goats of society and have to rebel. Hell, I know one that just had a child and he STILL doesn't have life in the right perspective. It's unreal.

Some people will always be children I guess. I almost kind of envy them.

I stand by what I said before. I don't think Sam fell under some spell or was a puppet to sictanik. I think sictanik would be very proud to see all of the research that has been done, would steal that information and sell it as true. It's certainly much more complex than anything I've ever heard from his material.

I agree with most of this actually, but you are missing the point. The point is what Sam McCroskey believed was true not what we believe.

 

[jamesmiller14]

I agree with most of this actually, but you are missing the point. The point is what Sam McCroskey believed was true not what we believe.

Right, and I just don't believe that he did all of this based on some lofty devil worshiping bull****. I think street cred became important after the murders were commited. I mean, he had already killed them, he had already sat in that house for awhile, so why not call up WIR and brag about it? Why not call home and tell everyone you love them while you're at it? Hell, why not talk to Melanie's parents when they call as well?

Sam's profile points more toward rejection and humilitation as his breaking point, not some long thought out scheme brewed up by some fat, untalented rapper.

But at least we know more about devil worshiping than sictanik does now.

 

[dangrsmind]

Right, and I just don't believe that he did all of this based on some lofty devil worshiping bull****. I think street cred became important after the murders were commited. I mean, he had already killed them, he had already sat in that house for awhile, so why not call up WIR and brag about it? Why not call home and tell everyone you love them while you're at it? Hell, why not talk to Melanie's parents when they call as well?

Sam's profile points more toward rejection and humilitation as his breaking point, not some long thought out scheme brewed up by some fat, untalented rapper.

But at least we know more about devil worshiping than sictanik does now.

What does it mean to be "under a spell" or to be "possessed"?

Ostensibly "magick" can be seen as a system of self improvement and self exploration. The notion here is to use these rituals or procedures to create a certain state of mind in the practitioner, for example to release and dispel negative emotions. Some of the ideas in the western magical tradition draw on notions from Tibetan tantric Buddhism in this area actually (via Madame Blavatskty at least).

The point for this discussion is to understand that these techniques (the use of ritual, music, incense, drugs, etc.) induces a psychological state in the practitioner that believes. This state can be induced even in some cases in people that don't consciously believe but who have sufficient unconscious beliefs due to early life experiences, cultural archetypes, etc. See Carl Jung. This explains how occult practices can "work" without any need for supernatural or pseudo-scientific explanations (i.e. magnetic fields).

Sam McCroskey was immersed in this stuff and he was surrounded by people that also believed. And don't forget that he apparently participated in the making of the "In Tha Name Of" video which at least one person claims to be an actual Satanic ritual. This same person states specifically that the purpose of the ritual was invoke a 3000 year old demon that the practitioners believed controlled the Son of Sam. Sam McCroskey took on the identity of Son of Sam, calling himself Lil Demon Dog and Syko Sam. The video includes four murders and Sam killed four people, initially killing three of them, then waiting around until a fourth victim was presented.

More later...

 

[tapu]

Oh, you just HAD to go and bring Madame Blavatsky into this!



:crazy:

 

[gxm]

Same here, they just seem silly. Everyone I knows that is into SKR was very excited for the new Jason Friday the 13th movie to come out. I used to watch those on Halloween when I was a child. It gave me goosebumps as a child. Back when night time wasn't just night time. Maybe there could be some crazy guy walking around killing people at night.

Then you grow up, at least some of us do.

Maybe these people still have those feelings from when they were kids. Maybe they miss being kids and are chasing that feeling. I just don't understand why 20+ year old adults still feel like goats of society and have to rebel. Hell, I know one that just had a child and he STILL doesn't have life in the right perspective. It's unreal.

Some people will always be children I guess. I almost kind of envy them.

I stand by what I said before. I don't think Sam fell under some spell or was a puppet to sictanik. I think sictanik would be very proud to see all of the research that has been done, would steal that information and sell it as true. It's certainly much more complex than anything I've ever heard from his material.

Hey, let's back up here a minute. I'm an adult and I love horror movies. There's no reason to make broad (and insulting) generalizations about people based on what movies they watch or like. Most people I know watch horror movies. Just like most people I know watch comedies. It doesn't make someone abnormal or immature (or violent for that matter) because they watch movies in a genre you don't like.

 

[tapu]

Hey, let's back up here a minute. I'm an adult and I love horror movies. There's no reason to make broad (and insulting) generalizations about people based on what movies they watch or like. Most people I know watch horror movies. Just like most people I know watch comedies. It doesn't make someone abnormal or immature (or violent for that matter) because they watch movies in a genre you don't like.

I'm sure you don't "get all excited for the new Jason movie to come out." I think James is talking about a different level of... appreciation... that comes out in the group under discussion for a genre of movie that is geared, mostly, toward a young audience.

Enjoying a good/bad horror film doesn't make you abnormal, but there are some hard-core fans of the genre that certainly are abnormal, as in weirdly immature.

(You're good by us, though, gxm! ) --tap

 

[gxm]

What does it mean to be "under a spell" or to be "possessed"?

Ostensibly "magick" can be seen as a system of self improvement and self exploration. The notion here is to use these rituals or procedures to create a certain state of mind in the practitioner, for example to release and dispel negative emotions. Some of the ideas in the western magical tradition draw on notions from Tibetan tantric Buddhism in this area actually (via Madame Blavatskty at least).

The point for this discussion is to understand that these techniques (the use of ritual, music, incense, drugs, etc.) induces a psychological state in the practitioner that believes. This state can be induced even in some cases in people that don't consciously believe but who have sufficient unconscious beliefs due to early life experiences, cultural archetypes, etc. See Carl Jung. This explains how occult practices can "work" without any need for supernatural or pseudo-scientific explanations (i.e. magnetic fields).

Sam McCroskey was immersed in this stuff and he was surrounded by people that also believed. And don't forget that he apparently participated in the making of the "In Tha Name Of" video which at least one person claims to be an actual Satanic ritual. This same person states specifically that the purpose of the ritual was invoke a 3000 year old demon that the practitioners believed controlled the Son of Sam. Sam McCroskey took on the identity of Son of Sam, calling himself Lil Demon Dog and Syko Sam. The video includes four murders and Sam killed four people, initially killing three of them, then waiting around until a fourth victim was presented.

More later...

And some people speak in tongues. And others are snake handlers. Even Kundalini yoga can supposedly cause "Kundalini Syndrome."

http://www.ehow.com/how_2303516_avoid-kundalini-syndrome.html

IMO, this negative energy (spell, possession, etc.) comes from within, not some unseen outside force. Blaming horrorcore seems, to me at least, to be similar to the Twinkie defense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkie_defense


Unless an accomplice turns up, Sam is responsible for these murders. About the only other people that might bear any other responsibility are his parents, not Emma's parents. Sam's parents are the ones that should have kept their son away from violent influences. After all, Emma didn't kill anybody. Sam did.

 

[dangrsmind]

And some people speak in tongues. And others are snake handlers. Even Kundalini yoga can supposedly cause "Kundalini Syndrome."

http://www.ehow.com/how_2303516_avoid-kundalini-syndrome.html

IMO, this negative energy (spell, possession, etc.) comes from within, not some unseen outside force. Blaming horrorcore seems, to me at least, to be similar to the Twinkie defense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkie_defense


Unless an accomplice turns up, Sam is responsible for these murders. About the only other people that might bear any other responsibility are his parents, not Emma's parents. Sam's parents are the ones that should have kept their son away from violent influences. After all, Emma didn't kill anybody. Sam did.

Absolutely agree about responsibility and the twinkie defense. However, the question remains, why did he do it?

From this article today:

Esham says about "99 percent of the culture gets it. But there's always that one guy."

This seems to be a popular view, but the problem is it doesn't help explain why this specific guy snapped at this particular time. After all, it sounds like he wasn't popular or doing so well with women more generally previous to this event and given his age he must have been rejected before. But this time it was too much for him and he ends up not just doing something dumb like smashing the TV or crashing a car, but instead he ends up killing four people with a blunt instrument? The he sits with the bodies for days and doesn't even shower or clean himself, but instead calls the cops? He steals the car, but crashes it somewhere on Poor House Road which as far as I can tell from Google Maps is a road to nowhere. Very unusual to say the least...

Seems to me that something is wrong with this whole story. Only a very deeply disturbed person could do something like this and by all accounts McCroskey did have social relationships, girlfriends, and so forth. He doesn't fit the profile unless there is more we don't know yet.

We are missing some fundamental piece of the puzzle I think.

 

[Nikolai]

I'm with you. Those kind of movies have zero appeal to me, period. I don't go to them in the theaters, I don't watch them at home, and I just don't get the appeal of them. The "supernatural" stuff, when I see previews for it, just makes me laugh because it's so preposterous.

I have a friend who is really into horror movies even still at age 29. He see's the real obscure gory foreign horror movies that none of us probably knew existed. But he's a totally normal guy, has a great job, dresses nicely, goes to the gym almost daily. I have no interest in any of that though. I'll see a horror movie if its supposed to be a good movie, but Im not heavily into any genre of movies.

 

[Nikolai]

Absolutely agree about responsibility and the twinkie defense. However, the question remains, why did he do it?

From this article today:

Esham says about "99 percent of the culture gets it. But there's always that one guy."

This seems to be a popular view, but the problem is it doesn't help explain why this specific guy snapped at this particular time. After all, it sounds like he wasn't popular or doing so well with women more generally previous to this event and given his age he must have been rejected before. But this time it was too much for him and he ends up not just doing something dumb like smashing the TV or crashing a car, but instead he ends up killing four people with a blunt instrument? The he sits with the bodies for days and doesn't even shower or clean himself, but instead calls the cops? He steals the car, but crashes it somewhere on Poor House Road which as far as I can tell from Google Maps is a road to nowhere. Very unusual to say the least...

Seems to me that something is wrong with this whole story. Only a very deeply disturbed person could do something like this and by all accounts McCroskey did have social relationships, girlfriends, and so forth. He doesn't fit the profile unless there is more we don't know yet.

We are missing some fundamental piece of the puzzle I think.

Esham was really big where I live, the detroit, MI area, he may be from here. I knew a lot of people that liked him, none of them took it seriously, and none of them hurt anybody. Sam killed Emma because he deeply hated her at that time for some reason, and I doubt it had anything to do with any music or any other musician. Its hard for people to accept so easily because despite the music he still seemed a pretty normal young man still probably stuck in his immature youth.

 

[ziggy]

I don't think being into horrorcore was a "because", I think it is an "and"...a in, Sam killed the four because he was disturbed AND he was influenced and desensitized by ...

Just as in - I don't think some of those kids would have killed for Manson had they not been influenced - but as for Atkins, I would say the because and the and.

I think it can have a big influence, not the root cause.

 

[ziggy]

I also agree with what the perp believes. The power of belief is powerful. I know a little bit about it after walking over 12 feet of red hot coals barefoot. I don't want to get OT about a debate on firewalking but there is a lot of information available on this including the CIA's use of NLP.

 

[dangrsmind]

I also agree with what the perp believes. The power of belief is powerful. I know a little bit about it after walking over 12 feet of red hot coals barefoot. I don't want to get OT about a debate on firewalking but there is a lot of information available on this including the CIA's use of NLP.

I had an experience with NLP a few years back. I was a member of another online community and one other member of the community was a member of the pick up scene. He bragged about his exploits and a number of us were pretty skeptical until he explained in some detail what his techniques were. Turns out this guy's day job was in the web design world and his employer pitched some work to a former employer of mine. Shortly after I joined the company, they approached me explaining that they wanted to hire this firm to do some work...at a rate of over $150,000 per month. And this was for some time from the principal (who is relatively famous) and one senior consultant (who was the NLP pick up expert) and was not expected to produce actual working software or interfaces.

I revealed what I knew about this guy to my employer who eventually decided against hiring them. I also pointed out that we could hire a web department for a year for that sort of money. What was fascinating was the initial extremely hostile reaction I got when I criticized this guy. It was way way out of proportion to the event, which was that I said that price seemed "steep". I believe was due to the programming this guy had done on them during the pitch meeting. A few months later my employer came and thanked me for telling him not enter the agreement.

 

[tapu]

Huh. Well. Shut mah mouf. You know, Dangrs, sometimes it seems like there's almost nothing you don't know something about.

 

[Nikolai]

I don't think being into horrorcore was a "because", I think it is an "and"...a in, Sam killed the four because he was disturbed AND he was influenced and desensitized by ...

Just as in - I don't think some of those kids would have killed for Manson had they not been influenced - but as for Atkins, I would say the because and the and.

I think it can have a big influence, not the root cause.

Theres a robbery/murder in the bad parts of major cities everyday by a young poor person who is very much into violent rap music, though different from horrorcore, do you believe the music plays the same "and" role in those cases?

 

[dangrsmind]

Theres a robbery/murder in the bad parts of major cities everyday by a young poor person who is very much into violent rap music, though different from horrorcore, do you believe the music plays the same "and" role in those cases?

It's my business to know about things like this.

I'm not claiming to be an expert NLP practitioner, just telling the story of someone that I encountered who was. Pretty impressive IMO.

 

[dangrsmind]

Theres a robbery/murder in the bad parts of major cities everyday by a young poor person who is very much into violent rap music, though different from horrorcore, do you believe the music plays the same "and" role in those cases?

There is scientific evidence that violent music and in particular music with violent lyrics "prime" people for aggression. This might (hypothetically) lead someone to have a lower trigger threshold for violent action in real life situations. That second part isn't proven to my knowledge and there are reasons to be suspect of this theory. I've previously posted links to this work if you want to read the source paper. And FWIW the music doesn't have to be horrorcore to have this effect.

We do know that horrorcore and violent music in general does not have this effect on most people in the real world since there is no pattern of horrocore related crime. If horrorcore was the cause, you'd see a pattern of crimes which was spatially correlated around areas where the music is popular or venues where it is played. This does not seem to be the case.

However it is still possible that under certain special circumstances a vulnerable individual could be influenced by the music. Future PhD research for someone out there...