VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #3

[PAXIMUS]

Lets summarize shall we?

Boy meets girl on internet.

Girl is smitten with the big SKR rapper/insider and personal friend of her heros Shrim and Raz.

For months girl and boy talk big game about love and being with eachother FOREVER.

Boy is loner and not really what he says he is.

Girl is the real deal.

Boy saves up all his money to go meet girl, father doesnt approve tells him not to come home if he makes this trip and refuses him ride to airport.

Boy decides to GO ALL IN, his life sucks and this is his chance for real, lasting and valuable change.

They meet.

Boy doesnt shower much, doesnt brush his teeth, overall bad hygeine, girl is turned off slowly over several days.

They attend concert and by then the relationship is pretty much over.

BOY AND GIRL play it off in front of friends and horrorcore associates to try and save face.

Girl meets big performer at concert, he is the real deal, she likes him he likes her. They exchange numbers. (see piXy's comments above to draw your own conclusion about who this person may have been)

Concert is over, dreaded 13 hour ride home with boy and girl who are no longer a couple.

Boy simmers as girl along with friend laugh and giggle for 13 hour trip while reading TEXTS FROM FRIENDS made at concert.

Boy and girl arrive back to VA first chance boy gets he snoops through girls cell phone to see what the girls were giggling about.

He sees texts, many about him, making him out to be the loser/loner only he knew he was.

His secret is out and he cant go home without losing face.

He snaps and kills them all when he reaches the conclusion he HAS NOTHING TO LOSE ANYMORE.

Doesnt have anywhere to go, hangs out, possibly considers suicide with pills.

Finally heads to airport after calling home and saying I LOVE YOU ALL, this is out of character for him but he does it to bury the hatchet, excuse the pun, and return home to his family.

Boy is arrested for murder.

 

[dangrsmind]

Perhaps Sam's lawyers should try to have the trial moved to California.

The issue in that case surrounded three knives found at the scene. At least two of the knives belonged to the victim, possibly all three. The prosecution failed to show that the accused brought a weapon to the residence (no fingerprints were taken from the weapons, dumb!) so it was impossible to say beyond a reasonable doubt that he had planned to stab the guy. Despite the threatening phone call, it appeared he had shown up at the scene and then the victim threatened the accused with a weapon which ended up being used against him. In the absence of proof that he brought a weapon to the scene (the victim refused to testify to this BTW) there was no evidence for premeditation. The phone call was obviously meant as a threat, but it was vague and non-specific; it wasn't like he said "I am going to come over and stab you when I get out" and then went and did it.

 

[dangrsmind]

Just another comment/thought...

Apparently Sam and some other girl are making out at the concert. First of all, I can understand listening to horrorcore to some extent, but really it has to be the worst make out music ever. So I think this is a little strange right off the bat.

What happened with this girl?

Why didn't he go with her or try to hook up with her further after STFW?

 

[dangrsmind]

Even so, most people wouldn't resort to murder over it. But, throw into the mix someone deeply involved with satanism, horrorcore music and culture - and yeah, it makes more sense.

Add in rejection from his Dad to the mix...

 

[PAXIMUS]

Even so, most people wouldn't resort to murder over it. But, throw into the mix someone deeply involved with satanism, horrorcore music and culture - and yeah, it makes more sense.

Nah throw in to the mix that the boy was exposed left standing naked and laughed at by the very people he looked up to and dreamed to become one of.

Those texts likely said some pretty cruel things about Sam.

Ever flirt with a girl and you two end up talking alot of **** about her ex, its part of the dynamics of flirting and meeting and thats likely what those texts were all about.

That doesnt make what he did right but he lost it plain and simple. He had nothing to lose.

 

[dangrsmind]

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=6578892&blogId=511020330

Some interesting comments as well. Some of this appears to be directed at the person called "Drama" here and elsewhere. IMO anyway.

 

[ziggy]

I'm trying to construct some of these confirmed facts here into coherent arguments for both sides but they seem to still go both ways. You could say: see, he was spurned, he must have plotted this murder for days. But, he was visibly nonchalant at the concert and didn't arose anyone's concern. And he was with some other girl . . . I almost wonder, based on the OK Cupid profile, the other girl at SFTW, if he had a few little internet girlfriends.

It also seems like Emma was being cruel to him on the ride home. But, why did it take him so long to do it, if he planned it out? What was the significance of that night, the 15th, as opposed to the 14th? The 16th? Presumably, he would have had similar opportunities. They certainly slept on the 14th.

Perhaps it will have something to do with the content of the texts. It's one thing to see texts from another guy, but if he read one text he may have read others (I know I would, I'm nosey) and those others may have referenced him, and Emma possibly said some hurtful things about him to another guy. That would be rough. Not rough enough to bludgeon, but rough.

Still, it's doesn't take much imagination to see how these girls, who loved this music genre that glorified gore,murder, dead rotting flesh,serial killers and the like, ended up like the subject of one of the songs they loved. Nor is it too surprising that Sam ended up acting like the alter ego he created. Just sayin. It seems Sam just acted out his fantasy fueled by rage. He said he hated everyone and everything on one of his profiles. His hate became so strong he may have premeditated this murderous event because he was seething and he really wanted to make her pay - all of them. I can see it. No stretch for me.

Paximus: your probable scenario is right on. I DO think that they way he killed them either had something to do with perhaps thinking he might become a horrorcore hero or shoving that s4!t in the faces of the person or persons who were dissing him that have a horrorcore link. The brutality etc. - I think it was done for dramatic purposes. There would have been a cooling off period between the women and Mark, so I can't help but think he was acting out on the horrocore stuff in how he murdered them and treated the bodies and the crime scene.

 

[dangrsmind]

BV -
True but i think the only reason that the money is there is because of the publicity it gets.What are your feelings on mainstream media and music blaming horrorcore/hardcore rap for stupid **** like school shootings? for example like what the media did with Mars and the Red Lake School shootings cuz they found some of his music lyrics in the kids notebook.

SM -
It is nothing but glorious. **** I wish I would get blamed for my music, I would exploit the **** out of it. Sorrry your kids got shot or did the shooting, you should have raised the ****ing bastards better. To bad the parents weren't there to take a slug themselves. I am in the process of trying to get churhes to boycott my *advertiser censored* lol.

From: http://www.the-wicked-****.com/Stitch Mouth interview.

Looks like he got his wish.

 

[AndresEscobar]

I think that the violence he sang about, and the fact that the victims were bludgeoned to death may be enough to convince a jury of premeditation. IIRC he sang about smashing people's heads in. All of the victims had been so viciously attacked that they were unrecognizable. I'm not sure a jury will need to hear that Sam wanted to kill these specific people, it will be the fact that he publicly expressed the desire to kill someone/anyone in the manner that the victims were killed in. JMO, IANAL, etc.

I keep trying to make this point without sounding like i'm lecturing, but the content of Sam's music is largely irrelevant as to proving specific intent of premeditation. It doesn't matter that he sang about killing people. What does matter is did he plan to kill Emma, Mel, Ms. Kelly and the pastor.

Am i making sense? You have to have the specific "malice aforethought" in relation to the people you killed. You have to decide to kill the people you killed.

So, writing or rapping about killing people in general does not prove that Sam premeditated murdering these four people.

Now, if he had written our plans in those notebooks to kill Emma, Mel, and Emma's parents, that is highly relevant to premeditation.

 

[AndresEscobar]

To illustrate this point: Jay Z has a song about shooting people in a club. Sometime later, Jay Z shoots someone in a club. This does not establish premeditation on the part of Jay Z.

 

[PAXIMUS]

BV -
True but i think the only reason that the money is there is because of the publicity it gets.What are your feelings on mainstream media and music blaming horrorcore/hardcore rap for stupid **** like school shootings? for example like what the media did with Mars and the Red Lake School shootings cuz they found some of his music lyrics in the kids notebook.

SM -
It is nothing but glorious. **** I wish I would get blamed for my music, I would exploit the **** out of it. Sorrry your kids got shot or did the shooting, you should have raised the ****ing bastards better. To bad the parents weren't there to take a slug themselves. I am in the process of trying to get churhes to boycott my *advertiser censored* lol.

From: http://www.the-wicked-****.com/Stitch Mouth interview.

Looks like he got his wish.

Yea he sure changed his tune didnt he. Heh.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Perhaps it will have something to do with the content of the texts. It's one thing to see texts from another guy, but if he read one text he may have read others (I know I would, I'm nosey) and those others may have referenced him, and Emma possibly said some hurtful things about him to another guy. That would be rough. Not rough enough to bludgeon, but rough.

(respectfully snipped)

Paximus: your probable scenario is right on. I DO think that they way he killed them either had something to do with perhaps thinking he might become a horrorcore hero or shoving that s4!t in the faces of the person or persons who were dissing him that have a horrorcore link. The brutality etc. - I think it was done for dramatic purposes. There would have been a cooling off period between the women and Mark, so I can't help but think he was acting out on the horrocore stuff in how he murdered them and treated the bodies and the crime scene.

I agree with your first statement. I feel the texts must have been something that either set him off or broke the camels back, so to speak.

You make a good point about the cooling off period. It's problematic. It's a wrench for the defense. But, if in order to get the death penalty, they would have to prove premeditation in at least two of the murders. Father and mother are probably the most likely. But if the defense can make it seem like he killed all three women in one rage . . .(Good job, applying crimlaw, btw, you're going to do great in your classes.)

 

[dangrsmind]

To illustrate this point: Jay Z has a song about shooting people in a club. Sometime later, Jay Z shoots someone in a club. This does not establish premeditation on the part of Jay Z.

OT, but I just have to repost this in response...

http://justgetthere.us/blog/archives/Jay-Zs-Run-This-Town-and-the-Occult-Connections.html

 

[dangrsmind]

I agree with your first statement. I feel the texts must have been something that either set him off or broke the camels back, so to speak.

You make a good point about the cooling off period. It's problematic. It's a wrench for the defense. But, if in order to get the death penalty, they would have to prove premeditation in at least two of the murders. Father and mother are probably the most likely. But if the defense can make it seem like he killed all three women in one rage . . .(Good job, applying crimlaw, btw, you're going to do great in your classes.)

The fact that he waited around the house before killing the father could be interpreted as him waiting for his victim to show up and planning to kill him at that time. I imagine the prosecution will at least try to argue he planned to kill the father and was laying in wait for him. A lot will depend on the forensics reports here I imagine.

 

[tapu]

I think I understand what you're saying, Andres, and tentatively I could agree with how you explain it in the context of this case, but how does this question bear upon it:

What if a guy writes poems, diary entries, songs explicitly about killing people en masse, and then one day he goes out and kills people en masse? Does only his intent as shown in getting a weapon or something like that count as premeditation, or can his longterm expression of his intent be brought in also? Wouldn't it be weird to say that proclaiming you're going to kill people before you do it doesn't count as evidence that you thought about it and decided to do it in advance??

 

[PAXIMUS]

I think I understand what you're saying, Andres, and tentatively I could agree with how you explain it in the context of this case, but how does this question bear upon it:

What if a guy writes poems, diary entries, songs explicitly about killing people en masse, and then one day he goes out and kills people en masse? Does only his intent as shown in getting a weapon or something like that count as premeditation, or can his longterm expression of his intent be brought in also? Wouldn't it be weird to say that proclaiming you're going to kill people before you do it doesn't count as evidence that you thought about it and decided to do it in advance??

Specific intent.

 

[dangrsmind]

This hasn't surfaced here before...

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheTempWhiteboy334#p/a/u/2/eFiWTwPirrM

 

[tapu]

Specific intent.

Great. A 2-word answer. Well, maybe I'm stupid, but I have a follow-up:

Specific to what? Identity? So no premeditation if your victims are strangers?

 

[dangrsmind]

Great. A 2-word answer. Well, maybe I'm stupid, but I have a follow-up:

Specific to what? Identity? So no premeditation if your victims are strangers?

You are one of the least stupid people I have met in recent memory.

I think there might be a difference between say writing poetry about killing random people vs. sketching locations to fire from that you later eventually used to kill random people.

We can't start jailing people for writing poetry can we?

 

[PAXIMUS]

Great. A 2-word answer. Well, maybe I'm stupid, but I have a follow-up:

Specific to what? Identity? So no premeditation if your victims are strangers?

It really depends on what the judge will allow since state laws in the United States vary as to definitions of "premeditation." In some states, premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder.

GENERALLY speaking it only applies when the specific, intentional and rational decision is made to MURDER. The fantasies you suggest would not be admissable unless you have a very incompetent attorney.

It could be SECONDS or days or weeks but a rational and intentional decision would have had to have been made and this decision PROVEN in court, that this person was going to kill someone else.

If Sam's attorney is any good the jury will never hear about the songs he made. However, that does depend on what the judge will personally allow, I would argue to have it tossed as it is frankly irrelevant to the case and has nothing to do with the murder. There is no evidence to suggest he had any plans to kill anyone WHILE HE WAS MAKING THE SONG so therefore to introduce such would taint the jury and set Sam up for a nice appeal.
IF the maul was IN THE ROOM and an argument broke out and he grabbed it (weapon of opportunity) and killed whoever was in the room, that would likely not be premeditated murder but rather "heat of the passion." But once Sam made a rational and intentional decision to GO LOOK FOR A WEAPON to be used to kill Emma etc, he premeditated the murder.

In the case of SAM the premeditation would likely begin, legally speaking, the moment he decided to walk to the woodpile and pick up the maul.