VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #5

[dangrsmind]

Food for Thought:
Let me pose my opinion by asking you a question in a implaussible scenario.

If you had the ability to turn back time and found yourself in a predicament that made it where you was unable to help your son but knew that he was going to be attacked and possibly killed by a vicious murderer that would have otherwise been detered by the state if he knew that he would get the exact same treatment to himself...would you want him carry out the attack or would you rewind the hands of time so that previous murderers', rapists, etc.. before had been executed (by whatever means) if it meant deterring him from killing your son?

Hope you followed that. Not trying to be a prick...I'm just curious in you answer. Sorry if it's not a clear question.

You are asking me to hypothesize what I would do in a hypothetical situation based on assuming premises I don't and wouldn't ever agree with?

You are right, that is an implausible scenario.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Sams letter as posted at above link by DM:

I wont post Sam's addy but you can get that on the other site at the link DM posted if you want it.

 

[nakedmanjoe]

You are asking me to hypothesize what I would do in a hypothetical situation based on assuming premises I don't and wouldn't ever agree with?

You are right, that is an implausible scenario.

I thought you wouldn't mind to answer a theoretical question. I'll try to stick with just untheoretical comments.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Sams letter as posted at above link by DM:

I wont post Sam's addy but you can get that on the other site at the link DM posted if you want it.

Pretty sad. Maybe I'll send him an xmas card or something.

 

[dangrsmind]

I thought you wouldn't mind to answer a theoretical question. I'll try to stick with just untheoretical comments.

If, by some miracle of fate, I was given the supernatural ability to rewind time as you have described in your previous posting, I would certainly hope that I would also be wise enough to oppose killing someone as a solution to any sort of problem whatsoever. Because really, think about it, if any man were granted such miraculous powers but was not possessed equally of great wisdom the world would very likely find itself trembling at his feet.

No thank you.

 

[nakedmanjoe]

If, by some miracle of fate, I was given the supernatural ability to rewind time as you have described in your previous posting, I would certainly hope that I would also be wise enough to oppose killing someone as a solution to any sort of problem whatsoever. Because really, think about it, if any man were granted such miraculous powers but was not possessed equally of great wisdom the world would very likely find itself trembling at his feet.

No thank you.

OK. I'll ask it like this since you won't answer my question that I tried to ask in a non-aggressive way.

Would you want your innocent son to live if it meant murdering a man guilty of murder.

 

[nakedmanjoe]

OK. I'll ask it like this since you won't answer my question that I tried to ask in a non-aggressive way.

Would you want your innocent son to live if it meant murdering a man guilty of murder.

just yes or no is fine...don't exaust your efforts.

 

[ziggy]

Pretty sad. Maybe I'll send him an xmas card or something.

This is exactly why you are probably an excellent defense attorney

Is it possible to feel sorry for Sam? Does it feel like he's just a thrown away kid in our society who ended up acting out because of his treatment by his parents?

He perpetrated some pretty horrific acts. If he is left alone to ponder that without support, why is that sad?

 

[ziggy]

Here is what P!$$es me off most about lifers...
They marry
They procreate

I don't want these so-called "bad seeds" passing their genes on...getting married and having the conjugal visits and other pleasures in life that they took away from the person or persons they killed.

I would be against the death penalty if prison, for murderers, was actually real and just punishment. NWIM?

 

[dangrsmind]

Joe, I've answered you twice.

You start off with a fallacious assumption that killing a guilty man could in fact be known in advance to be guaranteed to save an innocent person. Since that assumption is false, and always will be false, any argument based on the assumption that it is true is also false although it might appear consistent. This is a nice trick, very old, and used by a lot of interesting people over the years. I won't name them but I expect you know already. You might as well start with the assumption that pigs can fly and the reasoning afterwards would be equally valid.

Ziggy, two wrongs do not make a right.

In China they have computerized judges and mobile death chambers to speed the process along. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[PAXIMUS]

This is exactly why you are probably an excellent defense attorney

Is it possible to feel sorry for Sam? Does it feel like he's just a thrown away kid in our society who ended up acting out because of his treatment by his parents?

He perpetrated some pretty horrific acts. If he is left alone to ponder that without support, why is that sad?

I think it is very sad personally and I will tell you why. If I were to hate Sam and show him no mercy or compassion I fail to see how that would make me any different than he is. He obviously didnt show any mercy or compassion on his victims, I understand that, but I dont see how it does anyone any good to not show him some compassion and mercy and rise above it all, there is no reason to perpetuate the hate and cold blooded indifference.

I do feel for Sam and I will absolutely send him another letter (my last one was more media related) to let him know that the world doesnt have to be what he once thought it was, a cold dark and bitter place lacking of love, compassion and forgiveness. Show him the right way dont feed in to what made him do this to begin with.

 

[AndresEscobar]

This is exactly why you are probably an excellent defense attorney

Is it possible to feel sorry for Sam? Does it feel like he's just a thrown away kid in our society who ended up acting out because of his treatment by his parents?

He perpetrated some pretty horrific acts. If he is left alone to ponder that without support, why is that sad?

Kids life is ruined. It's sad because he's 20 years old, and his life is over. Crime effects more than just the victims and the victims family. Here's a kid who made a horrible split second decision that ended four peoples lives, his own life, and changed countless other lives.

Kids family wont (or cant) come out to see him. He's in a cell by himself and only interacts with jail guards and his attorney. He apparently gets hate mail.

Who am I to judge? He's still a person. A person that did one of the worst things i've ever heard of, but he's still a person. It could be my little brother or your little brother in his shoes. If I could take 5 minutes of my day and make him feel a little better, then why not?

 

[ericclimbs]

Comment on Raz's MySpace page from Sick. It is in response to an interesting comment she left on his. I'm not going to post it here because it may or may not have something to do with someone who makes appearances on this thread:

SickTanicK - 93 93/93 …
Nov 23, 2009 10:10 AM
LOL it is what it is woman, people assume and talk, that is what they are built to do. We do what we do, its sad that people actually expect us to stop making our living because of someone elses wrongful actions, but obviously we cant stop, or we dont eat and well, a thanksgiving dinner sounds good to me! It is what it is, we ALWAYS have the last laugh, ALWAYS, and you know this!!! No Glory Without Pain!
I Love You
-sick

link: http://comment.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewComments&friendID=64907055

 

[nakedmanjoe]

Joe, I've answered you twice.

You start off with a fallacious assumption that killing a guilty man could in fact be known in advance to be guaranteed to save an innocent person. Since that assumption is false, and always will be false, any argument based on the assumption that it is true is also false although it might appear consistent. This is a nice trick, very old, and used by a lot of interesting people over the years. I won't name them but I expect you know already. You might as well start with the assumption that pigs can fly and the reasoning afterwards would be equally valid.

Ziggy, two wrongs do not make a right.

In China they have computerized judges and mobile death chambers to speed the process along. Be careful what you wish for.

I knew getting into this would end up in a stagnant argument but I couldn't help myself since I have no remorse for Sam and could care less what happens to him (Just as long as he's punished with at least LWP). I have no idea who these characters are that you speak of. I just tried to come up with a scenario that I imagine close family members feel when they try to come to grips with why bad things happen and what preventive measures could have been done to stop it. I'm sure most of them wonder why deranged truly evil people get to keep on living while their loved ones don't.
I better get back to work before I get in trouble. Sorry everyone for going off subject, I guess I just found myself with too much idle time at work. Didn't intend to get worked up.

 

[ericclimbs]

How about some new material: A message from Sam/LiLdEmOnDoG - Horrorcore Forums

Enjoy!

Damn this link is already taken down. I went there about 45 minutes ago and saw the address but didn't write it down. I just went back there and the admin has removed it. Can anyone PM me the addy? I don't know if I will write him or not but wouldn't mind having the info. I guess if I really wanted to write him I could call the jail. . .

 

[PAXIMUS]

Further I would like to add that I dont think prisons should NOT be about punishment, I think they should be about rehabilitation. Yes there has to be consequences for our actions and Sam is experiencing those now, he is locked up in a cell, but he is also very willing right now to LISTEN TO PEOPLE and really absorb what they say, those who send him hate mail and call him names and show cold blooded indifference to him are only feeding in to the very world view that led Sam down this path to begin with. Sam needs to know that isnt what the world is really about and that he can overcome this and make something of himself while imprisoned, he can get an education and reach out to others who are on the same destructive that he was on and maybe make a difference in the life of someone else who may be on their way to doing what he did. If all we do is punish Sam and remind him of what a loser and cold blooded killer he is, he will continue to see the world through that delusional lense and never better himself or become a productive human being.

When our kids make a mistake we dont lock them in their room or beat them with a belt, if you do I can assure you that you are not helping them, you sit them down and talk to them and teach them the right way, YES there should be consequences for what they did, take away the video games and cell phones etc, but rehabilitate them instead of just punishing them.

Sam can be rehabilitated, I dont think he should ever be free again and that is the consequence of what he did, but he can be made to be a productive member of the prison system and even use his time in a postive way to reach out to others and help them get off the very same path that led him to where he is today.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Damn this link is already taken down. I went there about 45 minutes ago and saw the address but didn't write it down. I just went back there and the admin has removed it. Can anyone PM me the addy? I don't know if I will write him or not but wouldn't mind having the info. I guess if I really wanted to write him I could call the jail. . .

DAMN! I am glad I saved the letter to this thread I should have posted the addy but I didnt want him to get more hate mail but publicizing the address, now in hindsight I think we should have a record of it here.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Comment on Raz's MySpace page from Sick. It is in response to an interesting comment she left on his. I'm not going to post it here because it may or may not have something to do with someone who makes appearances on this thread:

SickTanicK - 93 93/93 …
Nov 23, 2009 10:10 AM
LOL it is what it is woman, people assume and talk, that is what they are built to do. We do what we do, its sad that people actually expect us to stop making our living because of someone elses wrongful actions, but obviously we cant stop, or we dont eat and well, a thanksgiving dinner sounds good to me! It is what it is, we ALWAYS have the last laugh, ALWAYS, and you know this!!! No Glory Without Pain!
I Love You
-sick

link: http://comment.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewComments&friendID=64907055

I just read her comments on Sick's MS page, boy she is way over the line on that. Its obviously directed at piXy and I am sure glad piXy came to her senses about these people, they are backstabbers and piXy never turned on them all she did was tell the TRUTH of what she knew.

 

[dangrsmind]

This should be legible....

 

[ericclimbs]

DAMN! I am glad I saved the letter to this thread I should have posted the addy but I didnt want him to get more hate mail but publicizing the address, now in hindsight I think we should have a record of it here.

Yeah I agree on not wanting him to get any more hate mail as a result of someone finding his address in this thread. I have mixed emotions about what should be done with/to such offenders, which I haven't completely sorted out yet (though I lean towards benevolence and understanding FWIW), but I don't think more hatred and rage, on top of the indescribable pain of those left behind, leads to anything remotely constructive.