VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #6

[dangrsmind]

I have a friend who I haven't talked to in a while -- he currently lives in Hawaii, but he is Buddhist. He feels very strongly about it and chants everyday. He believes not only in reincarnation but reincarnation on other planets in the universe. He believes that, here on planet Earth, we are living in what would be the Christian equivalent of Hell. This is the lowest place to be incarnate. I am agnostic but, from the horror Mankind is able to perpetrate, I don't find this line of thought hard to digest. Yes there is joy and happiness to be had in this life but there are also profound sorrows.

I would be interested to hear if you find anything along these lines as you research buddhism DocZ. And also anything Pax or Dangrs might know about this idea. (or anyone else for that matter -- I just know those two know a little something about Buddhism!)

I think this is a misreading or misunderstanding of Buddhism. In Buddhism there is the notion of the six realms of Samsara and the human realm is considered as the ONLY one that offers the opportunity to achieve enlightenment in this lifetime. Personally I believe that these 6 realms all exist in our material world. We see some people, for example Sam McCroskey, that may very well be experiencing a "hell realm" within our human world; while others, for example Bill Gates, seem to live an almost god-like existence in this same world.

With that said, I think there can be different interpretations and ideas here and the proof is in the specific results obtained by the practitioner.

 

[ziggy]

Hey Ziggy- hope your tests went well.

Sorry I've been neglecting you all, the time I've had for this board has been sucked into the Alyssa Bustamante thread. Wish more would come out.

Thanks for thinking of me. My Criminal midterm sucked *advertiser censored*! I thought I was soooo prepared. The computer software malfunctioned and they finally got mine fixed 5 minutes before test time so I was a bit "off" and nervous cuz I did not want to write it. Good news...doesn't count toward my grade so I have 15 weeks to get better. On to Contracts (barf) and Torts (which does count). Learning so much!

By the way I am loving this thread for so many reasons. Thanks everyone for the ineresting contributions. I believe in God, Jesus and i also believe Jesus said we could do everthing he does and more...so I lean in the direction of being a god as a child of god and having more abilities than I've ever been led to believe...like the cell of a being i am one with. So I'm screwed up, but it doesn't bother me. I sense good energy, support from the universe be it angels or whatever and i believe i can manifest things through all of that support. What am I anyway???

 

[ericclimbs]

I think this is a misreading or misunderstanding of Buddhism . . .

. . . With that said, I think there can be different interpretations and ideas here and the proof is in the specific results obtained by the practitioner.

Thanks I'll have to give him a call and have him elaborate. He's got some pretty far out ideas but is a really great guy.

 

[blouAngel]

I think this is a misreading or misunderstanding of Buddhism. In Buddhism there is the notion of the six realms of Samsara and the human realm is considered as the ONLY one that offers the opportunity to achieve enlightenment in this lifetime. Personally I believe that these 6 realms all exist in our material world. We see some people, for example Sam McCroskey, that may very well be experiencing a "hell realm" within our human world; while others, for example Bill Gates, seem to live an almost god-like existence in this same world.

With that said, I think there can be different interpretations and ideas here and the proof is in the specific results obtained by the practitioner.

It's interesting that you would attribute god-like status to someone based on his success at material gain.

 

[ziggy]

Back in my serious martial arts days...I started reading Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East books and needless to say, I maybe got through only book 2 or 3, but I was fascinated by the encounters they had with Jesus and wondered if any of you would like to comment on that.

 

[dangrsmind]

It's interesting that you would attribute god-like status to someone based on his success at material gain.

Consider how he spends his days and the sorts of medical care he can get as examples. Bill Gates does not need to work in order to sustain his existence as another example. Compare his life to that of a crack addict laying in their own urine in an alley. Most of us exist somewhere in between these two extremes.

Also, in the not very distant future, the super rich will actually live longer than "regular" people; possibly quite substantially longer. This is the basis of one of my long standing arguments with my transhumanist friends. FWIW.

ETA: Actualy I would consider Gates one of the asura or "jealous gods" in the Buddhist paradigm. See http://buddhism.about.com/od/tibetandeities/ig/Wheel-of-Life-Gallery/Asura-Realm.htm

 

[dangrsmind]

Back in my serious martial arts days...I started reading Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East books and needless to say, I maybe got through only book 2 or 3, but I was fascinated by the encounters they had with Jesus and wondered if any of you would like to comment on that.

I don't think I know anything about this. Sounds worth investigating.

 

[blouAngel]

Consider how he spends his days and the sorts of medical care he can get as examples. Bill Gates does not need to work in order to sustain his existence as another example...

Also, in the not very distant future, the super rich will actually live longer than "regular" people; possibly quite substantially longer.

Every one that is born must die. Every thing that is created must cease to exist....

I'm not up on how Buddhism describes its gods. Are they not somehow outside of the cycle of creation and destruction like the Christian God is?

 

[dangrsmind]

I'm not up on what Buddhism describes its gods. Are they not somehow outside of the cycle of creation and destruction like the Christian God is?

On the contrary, the asura and gods exist in one of the realms of Samsara. They die too.

See the picture of the wheel of life which I linked above. One of the realms is the realm of humans, another of the asura, etc. The demonic figure holding the wheel is Yamantaka the Lord of Death. All the beings on the wheel are subject to death and dissolution according to Buddhism.

 

[ziggy]

Author Baird T. Spalding

snipped from Wiki:
"However, despite most of the action taking place in India, the Great Masters make it clear that the greatest embodiment of the Enlightened state is that of the Christ (as personified by Jesus): “The Masters accept that Buddha represents the Way to Enlightenment, but they clearly set forth that Christ IS Enlightenment, or a state of consciousness for which we are all seeking - the Christ light of every individual; therefore, the light of every child born into the world.” (From the foreword, Volume I, Life and Teaching of the Master of the Far East, DeVorss & Co.)

 

[dangrsmind]

More information on Yamantaka and related practices here: http://vajrabhairava.com/

This is relevant to our story and this case in that these practices are very similar in their esoteric meanings to those of the Necromancer Leilah Wendell which SickTanick mentions.

 

[dangrsmind]

Author Baird T. Spalding

snipped from Wiki:
"However, despite most of the action taking place in India, the Great Masters make it clear that the greatest embodiment of the Enlightened state is that of the Christ (as personified by Jesus): “The Masters accept that Buddha represents the Way to Enlightenment, but they clearly set forth that Christ IS Enlightenment, or a state of consciousness for which we are all seeking - the Christ light of every individual; therefore, the light of every child born into the world.” (From the foreword, Volume I, Life and Teaching of the Master of the Far East, DeVorss & Co.)

I don't find this in its essence to be in conflict with my understanding of Tibetan Buddhism at least. I know many Buddhists that accept both Jesus and the historical Buddha as enlightened masters. This is precisely what I was talking about in a previous post when I mentioned the path of compassion.

See also: http://www.e-sangha.com/alphone/be_bodsv.html

I have a fair bit of experience with the practice mentioned here known as "exchanging oneself for others" and I've met exactly one person who I thought had made some significant progress themselves along this path. FWIW.

 

[emeraldeyes85]

I will have to let Pax comment on this when he returns but I am sure DM understands that we need to keep in mind that the cosmological gods of Buddhism are not the kind of gods that most people are accustomed to, they have no influence in our lives and it is just another level in the hierarchy of karma and rebirth. Of course DM and Pax study two different schools of Buddhism so I can only speak for the Theravadian teachings of such.

Even though there are many and varied schools of Buddhist thought the fundamentals pretty much remain the same throughout and the differences, in my experience, are in what texts are considered canonical. In the case of Theravada Buddhism only the Pali Tripitaka , meaning only the original words/teachings of the Buddha himself (Dhamma or Dharma) are considered canonical. Other schools use that in addition to some other texts.

 

[dangrsmind]

I will have to let Pax comment on this when he returns but I am sure DM understands that we need to keep in mind that the cosmological gods of Buddhism are not the kind of gods that most people are accustomed to, they have no influence in our lives and it is just another level in the hierarchy of karma and rebirth. Of course DM and Pax study two different schools of Buddhism so I can only speak for the Theravadian teachings of such.

Even though there are many and varied schools of Buddhist thought the fundamentals pretty much remain the same throughout and the differences, in my experience, are in what texts are considered canonical. In the case of Theravada Buddhism only the Pali Tripitaka , meaning only the original words/teachings of the Buddha himself (Dhamma or Dharma) are considered canonical. Other schools use that in addition to some other texts.

That is correct. As far as the meditational deities, for example those employed in the deity yoga techniques I linked to above, these are perhaps best thought of as symbolic entities that embody various desirable qualities or activities IMO. For example, I have done most of my meditation work with the deity Avalokiteshvara whom is the embodiment of compassion.

The mediator visualizes the deity and through doing so takes on some of the positive characteristics embodied in the symbolic representation. The practice works in my experience but takes extreme concentration as you have to go through various checks of the detailed features of the meditative object and your degree of concentration. Much easier to say than do, and some people could devote much of their lives to this practice and never succeed.

 

[emeraldeyes85]

...I'm thinking,i'm thinking,I need a hint...the next step...I'm trying to think who is behind trying to prevent "the truth" from being known?...who doesn't want us to eat the apple? "father,why have you forsaken me?"...even jesus,said that ,right?

The priestly caste of course, they derive their power, riches and authority from our ignorance. In Babylon they wore black robes and lived in Temples today they wear Armani suits and live in mansions.

 

[emeraldeyes85]

The term lying suggests devious intention. Here we are simply having a discussion of an unpopular idea. One or more of us might be misinformed, but I don't think anyone is lying.

Exactly.

 

[emeraldeyes85]

With all due respect, your "Christian Point of View" seems decidedly un-Christian to me.

This is precisely where Christians get into trouble with what they believe to be true about the bible, that it is literally the words of God, and the historical facts regarding the version they are basing their arguments on. The King James bible is known to be a purposely mistranslated version which was created for and approved by King James I of England to support his political position that kings stood above the pope.

Ask a Catholic about it.

Not only mistranslated but entire books omitted and left out. Where are those lost books and what do they say Mr James?

Todays vocabulary assignment:

Pseudepigrapha

 

[PAXIMUS]

Hey kids! I am back, I need to behave or I will be gone for good next time LOL. Time to take the heart off the shirtsleeves and put back in the chest.

 

[dangrsmind]

Hey kids! I am back, I need to behave or I will be gone for good next time LOL. Time to take the heart off the shirtsleeves and put back in the chest.

Welcome back, and try not to get yourself banned!

You were missed. I'm going out for the evening to slay dragons. Hope to talk to you soon.

 

[claudicici]

I was also raised Catholic and was told I would go to hell for it. Funny part is, the person who told me this now has 3 kids but has never been married. She still tells me I'm going to hell for being Catholic but she's alright.

I don't mean to say that everyone is like that. Just that the people who pick and choose the rules that apply are part of what turns some away from the church.

I grew up catholic also...lots of stuff I never understood,my mom could not take part in the bread and wine sharing stuff cos she was married to my dad who was married before which made her a sinner.
In church I always felt horribly sorry for jesus and angry at god.
In around 7th grade I found out about the apogryphal texts and stuff and i felt super angry and betrayed.