VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #6

[angel10510]

Consider for example the fan video made of SickTanick's 2012 song. The video is made with footage from the movie Gamers and includes a shot of the protagonist's arm which has a tattoo that has several links to Sam McCroskey. What does it mean and how did this connection get there?

I personally have no f-ing clue. I generally think it is best simply to observe these connections and oddities and then move on. Maybe in the end all I am talking about here are illusory patterns in noise (see http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/322/5898/115) but if so they are at the very least intriguing illusions.

Alternatively, one might conclude these sorts of things are part of some larger pattern or system. Perhaps we can only partially observe and don't really understand this larger structure. As to it's exact workings I would have no idea, but it needn't be supernatural just mysterious and unknown.

What is your opinion?

[BBM] Ah. Okay. I assumed a supernatural connection was suggested. It seems I was looking at it the wrong way. If I'm understanding you it's about seeing and recognizing patterns and signs, which may or may not point to something concrete, which can be heavily dependent on context, and whose meaning may remain mysterious and unknown, perhaps even unknowable. Here, it seems to me, the process is what is valued most-- seeking, gathering, sifting, reflecting, weaving -- rather than finding concrete, material significance.

Am I on the right (or at least 'righter') track? Thanks for your help.

 

[dangrsmind]

Thanks, Paximus. I’m sorry I wasn’t very clear: I wasn’t so much asking about the specific murders since no one knows exactly what happened, but about the parameters of occult possibilities. I’m not sure if the meaning here, or range of potential meanings, is ghosts, spirits, demons, possession, energy fields, and so forth, or any/some/all of the above.

For example, I can follow the 505 links (tattoo, house number, area code). But I don’t follow what it signifies, or might signify in the realm of occult possibilities. A triangulation signal? An energy beam from NM -->Shrim--> Kelley home? A demonic force that looks for 505 repititions?

What do these various signs suggest to occultists?

Btw, I don’t post much on but I’m not new to these threads.

Here is one possible explanation from a "paranormal investigator": http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2397964/one_theory_of_paranormal_manifestation.html?cat=34

Here's a different view: http://caliber.ucpress.net/doi/abs/10.1525/jung.2007.1.2.2?cookieSet=1&journalCode=jung

Personally I take these things with a grain of salt.

But worth remembering:

"He who speaks with primordial images speaks with a thousand tongues."
--Carl Jung

 

[dangrsmind]

[BBM] Ah. Okay. I assumed a supernatural connection was suggested. It seems I was looking at it the wrong way. If I'm understanding you it's about seeing and recognizing patterns and signs, which may or may not point to something concrete, which can be heavily dependent on context, and whose meaning may remain mysterious and unknown, perhaps even unknowable. Here, it seems to me, the process is what is valued most-- seeking, gathering, sifting, reflecting, weaving -- rather than finding concrete, material significance.

Am I on the right (or at least 'righter') track? Thanks for your help.

Yes. That is exactly it. And more clearly expressed than many of my meager fumblings, so thank you.

ETA: A number of occult practitioners recommend "forgetting" about a working after it is conducted. The more you can "forget" the more powerful the working. But if you really forget, how can you ever determine that anything was accomplished? One concludes that the accomplishment of some concrete objective wasn't really the point to begin with.

 

[angel10510]

However the fact that you don't know these things does not change the history of the use of the swastika, nor does it mean that the symbol simply stops meaning what it meant. The symbol may fail to have these meanings for YOU. But please consider the meaning of the same symbol on a Hindu temple or on a Buddhist altar cloth. Are these uses now Nazi symbols as well? I do not think so.

I think this is what BlouAngel was getting at earlier (correct me if I'm wrong): that symbols have no inherent meaning but are invested with significance based on social, cultural, and historical context.

 

[angel10510]

Yes. That is exactly it. And more clearly expressed than many of my meager fumblings, so thank you.

ETA: A number of occult practitioners recommend "forgetting" about a working after it is conducted. The more you can "forget" the more powerful the working. But if you really forget, how can you ever determine that anything was accomplished? One concludes that the accomplishment of some concrete objective wasn't really the point to begin with.

Not meager fumblings at all, but extremely helpful. I appreciate your posts and your patience.

 

[dangrsmind]

I think this is what BlouAngel was getting at earlier (correct me if I'm wrong): that symbols have no inherent meaning but are invested with significance based on social, cultural, and historical context.

Well, I understood him to be saying something a bit more than this here.

It is interesting to speculate about symbols however....

If the human race vanished today, would all of our symbols lose their meaning? Consider as a comparable example the decoding of the Rosetta stone long after its authors were dead.

Semiotics places all creation of meaning in humans, but machines can also create and manipulate symbols. Are these meaningless until someone observes them? This idea is somewhat attractive given the similar concept of the collapse of the wave function in quantum mechanics in response to measurement.

Occultist Osman Spare talks about "sentient symbols", symbols that he believed were aware, intelligent, and also independent of human thought. Weird stuff and worth checking out.

 

[Ijustmadethisup4]

Ahh, ok. I see what you mean paximus. Yes, symbols like those often do not change meaning. I just feel that you guys over over estimating what is behind CHI, they really have no influence at the university. Thanks for clarifying those things. I find things like the bilderberg group very interesting, its just that CHI is a poor example of a non-secret society, much less a secret one.

 

[RockDawg]

A word about swastikas :

Last year I went to a trade show in Tucson , Arizona, that had many dealers from around the world. I bought some things from a fellow from India and he cheerfully placed my purchase in an ornate plastic printed bag . Later , in looking at the bag it was covered in swastikas !

So at first I thought this was really odd but realized it probably had nothing to do with Nazi but was probably a religious thing. My opinion is maybe the guy should just brown bag it . Mainly because while I am opened minded and try not to jump to conclusions , other people arent . Some people might even have valid reasons to take it as an insult.

Just recently I spent the night in the so-called "Hindu Hilton" as the locals of Taylorsville , North Carolina refer to it . This economy hotel had the entrance way of each room decorated with swastikas ( the kind with the dots ) , left and right on each side of the threshold.

Having been exposed to this before , this time it didnt strike me as being so severly odd. But again , some people might take offence at it.


The Dawg in Hot 'Lanta .

 

[RockDawg]

And another thing.

VA is not in the South. That's up North !


The Dawg, in Georgia.

 

[peace_gurl]

I'm willing to bet that none of the individuals coming here to defend Longwood and Farmville are persons of color. I am also willing to be corrected on this point, but I imagine that persons of African descent living in or around Farmville might have a somewhat different perspective about things like the Prince Edward Academy and the use of the KKK colors by Longwood.

I guess YMMV.

Prince Edward Academy's colors were orange and black. Imagine that.
Neighbor to Prince Edward, Randolph Henry High School, Charlotte County has large black population: color blue and white.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Ahh, ok. I see what you mean paximus. Yes, symbols like those often do not change meaning. I just feel that you guys over over estimating what is behind CHI, they really have no influence at the university. Thanks for clarifying those things. I find things like the bilderberg group very interesting, its just that CHI is a poor example of a non-secret society, much less a secret one.

CHI is certainly nothing like the Bilderberg, CFR, Skull and Bones at Yale, Freemasons and other groups who do indeed work to place their members in high ranking seats of power and authority and then commonly scratch eachother's backs to the detriment of the rest of us, however, for the sake of this discussion since we ran out of things to talk about re: the actual murders, I think it was certainly very interesting that DM delved in to some of these local Farmville legends and the secret societies of LU but I do not think he meant to imply that they actually had anything to do with the murders themselves only to point out that perhaps because of the area's past violent and racist history that there could possibly, even if not likely, be some sort of collective bad karma or juju, if you will, at work here.

I dont think there is anything wrong with looking at things from this perspective, heck it is what I do with everything, even though I dont always believe in the 'woo factor' it is certainly fun and even educating to examine it.

As for CHI, yes I know they are just college kids having fun, I was once one of you myself and those were the years of my life (enjoy them while they last my friend) but please do understand whether they know it or not those practices, rituals and props do have very historical meaning and some of it isnt something to be real proud of.

 

[PAXIMUS]

A word about swastikas :

Last year I went to a trade show in Tucson , Arizona, that had many dealers from around the world. I bought some things from a fellow from India and he cheerfully placed my purchase in an ornate plastic printed bag . Later , in looking at the bag it was covered in swastikas !

So at first I thought this was really odd but realized it probably had nothing to do with Nazi but was probably a religious thing. My opinion is maybe the guy should just brown bag it . Mainly because while I am opened minded and try not to jump to conclusions , other people arent . Some people might even have valid reasons to take it as an insult.

Just recently I spent the night in the so-called "Hindu Hilton" as the locals of Taylorsville , North Carolina refer to it . This economy hotel had the entrance way of each room decorated with swastikas ( the kind with the dots ) , left and right on each side of the threshold.

Having been exposed to this before , this time it didnt strike me as being so severly odd. But again , some people might take offence at it.


The Dawg in Hot 'Lanta .

Too cool, I went to college in Tucson and lived there many years, I am now just up the road a bit in the prescot/sedona,flagstaff area.

As for the swastikas as DM pointed out it has a long history in just about every region and culture but it does have a particular place in Buddhism and Hinduism and as a Buddhist myself I have several large Buddha statues that have a swastika on the Buddha's forehead and/or chest. When I first encountered this, as a Jewish person, I was a little shocked obviously but then my teacher/monk explained it to me and I understood immediately that there was a difference.

 

[AndresEscobar]

(snipped)

Why did four people die? Here is what happened: Dr. Kelly and her husband had problems. It reflected onto their child, who then had problems. She was friends with other crazy people, one of which was a nutcase sent to use by the California’s (that’s Sam). The California kid killed all four people: two of which were good people, and should have your respect, not your crazy assumptions about the town they are from. One of those people who died was an innocent child. She didn’t even have a chance to mature. The other was just a friend coming to visit.

Now, i live here, i go to school here, and i see the people who were hurt by this. Dr. Kelly had problems in her family, but she was a good person who worked for a good university that cared about her. The ONLY bad person here was the one who came from somewhere else. Perhaps we should be talking about where that poor excuses of a life form came from and not highlighting ghost stories told by one of our most famous professors (whom my family is good friends with).

Oh, and for those of you who believe those ghost stories, don’t. I lived in one of the "haunted" dorms, everyone knows its a joke, except for you a select few on these forums.

As for the symbolism stuff, get real. This isn’t the movie Angels and Demons (which is a great movie and book, i encourage you to read/watch it). Not everything has a hidden meaning or secret code, just ask the comic act called CHI.


Sincerely, Longwood Univserity Student Body (well, at least one of us).

Oh well, looks like the case is solved. Lets pack it up and go home everyone.

In all seriousness, we're not attacking your school, or your home, or your town. There's just nothing going on in this case now. And there are lots of weird coincidences. I'm learning a lot from this thread. If you don't want to learn these things, thats fine. Come back in Jan when we have more substance to talk about.

 

[AndresEscobar]

And another thing.

VA is not in the South. That's up North !


The Dawg, in Georgia.

Dawg. I like you. Trust me, VA is the south.

Coming from a Chicagoan, btw.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Prince Edward Academy's colors were orange and black. Imagine that.
Neighbor to Prince Edward, Randolph Henry High School, Charlotte County has large black population: color blue and white.

I don't understand how the school's colors have anything to do with DMs point?

 

[tapu]

Dawg. I like you. Trust me, VA is the south.

Coming from a Chicagoan, btw.

Pretty much all of you are in the South from my perspective. Even some Canadians, if we have them. :crazy:

 

[AndresEscobar]

Pretty much all of you are in the South from my perspective. Even some Canadians, if we have them. :crazy:

Sorry, the border between north and south is Interstate 80.

 

[tapu]

[BBM] Ah. Okay. I assumed a supernatural connection was suggested. It seems I was looking at it the wrong way. If I'm understanding you it's about seeing and recognizing patterns and signs, which may or may not point to something concrete, which can be heavily dependent on context, and whose meaning may remain mysterious and unknown, perhaps even unknowable. Here, it seems to me, the process is what is valued most-- seeking, gathering, sifting, reflecting, weaving -- rather than finding concrete, material significance.

This paragraph captures the magic of this thread, I think. Even though many of the connections being made and directions being taken may not bear fruit, or not bear fruit that is recognized or understood (yet or completely), the process itself and those different connections are worth experiencing intellectually and spiritually. I swear I can feel my mind growing or opening up as I consider some of the ideas that have been tossed around here.

 

[peace_gurl]

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS

Wished I had a paint brush so I could let you see my view point and not read it.

1. My daughters would not listen to horrorcore. It is not their style.
Their occasional teenage babysitter’s killed their parents with a gun. They hate violence.
They do not watch horror movies either!

2. They did not have time to sit and chat on line. At 15 they were consumed in getting a public school education, dance classes, & art classes.

3. Both of my daughters had a public job at 15. Both first jobs were at a European style coffee house.

4. A male stranger that I knew nothing about would not come to stay with us.

( Maybe my style of parenting is a little different than yours, after all I am a single mom.)

This is what I am trying to say:

1. I do not believe Dr. Kelly and Em were having any more difficulties than any typical teenager and parents have. Remember she was getting a divorce.
2. Dr. Kelly did not like the horror core music but did she believe the music scene would kill her? (my mom did not like my Ozzy either.)
3. Dr. Debra Kelly was in therapy with her daughter. I know from personal experience, divorce can make you depressed and highly affect your children. She was working through it with her daughter and husband.
4. I believe the drive to the festival was discussed with her therapist.
5. I Remember reading Sam stayed in one room at the hotel, her dad in another and the girls in another room when they attended the festival. I am sure they thought they were watching after them.
6. I do not know if Em lied to her mom about Sam, his age, what was going on in his life etc. But I believe Debra would try to help anyone. She was a good woman.
7. I live in a small town with lots of college kids (we have two colleges here) it is not unusual for the faculty to have kids in their homes.
8. Yes, it is a trusting town, because everyone knows everyone.
9 People are actually friendly and help each other. As DM said we should not. (When I visited California a few years back it bothered me how unfriendly the employees of stores were. Then I remembered hell, I am on the west coast.)
10. And guess what it is not just the “white people” that we trust. Contrary to what you think most people in our community do not see color. Sure there are racist here but there are racist in California too.

What I would like to know is more about the man accused of the crime. Where is the information about his family, his life, and what items were taken from his home? He is who we should examine.

 

[peace_gurl]

I don't understand how the school's colors have anything to do with DMs point?

Blue and white the color of the KKK (As DM point out about Longwood University's colors) in a neighborhood school in the south. A public school that is next door to where the school segregation issues occured. Have you been reading? Brown vs the Board of Education.